70% of French Prisoners Are Muslim

nukunuku,
You need to double check the source again as Dan Park's article does have real political slant to it.
Notice who he wrote the article for:

International Socialist Review

Although I am not trying to dispute the numbers that Mr. Park is using, I would suggest that as with any statistic, the numbers can be made to promote whatever a person wants.

The International Socialist Review Website does present some good reads though

From the U.S. Department of Justice:

On June 30,2004,

-- 2,131,180 prisoners were held in Federal or State prisons or in local jails -- an increase of 2.3% from midyear 2003, less than the average annual growth of 3.5% since yearend 1995.
-- there were an estimated 486 prison inmates per 100,000 U.S. residents -- up from 411 at yearend 1995.
-- the number of women under the jurisdiction of State or Federal prison authorities increased 2.9% from midyear 2003, reaching 103,310 and the number of men rose 2.0%, totaling 1,390,906.
At midyear 2004 there were 4,919 black male prison and jail inmates per 100,000 black males in the United States, compared to 1,717 Hispanic male inmates per 100,000 Hispanic males and 717 white male inmates per 100,000 white males.


Between 1995 and 2001, the increasing number of violent offenders accounted for 63% of the total growth of the State prison population; 15% of the total growth was attributable to the increasing number of drug offenders.
Click on the chart to view full sized version.

Most serious offense Percent of sentenced
State inmates
1995 2001
Total 100 % 100 %
Violent 47 49
Property 23 19
Drug 22 20
Public-order 9 11

U.S. DoJ BJS

Muslims segregate themselves from "non-believers". No one is doing that to them. That's why they don't mix into western countries. It's like oil and water (get it?)

Oh I get it, but it's certainly an over simplification. That's like saying poor black people and other ethnic groups segregate themselves here in the US by living in projects.

It's more society than personal preference. Muslims I know do not segregate themselves from infadels, they live amongst us as it were. Not one of them has ever pointed a finger at me and screamed "Jihad" and tried to shoot, stab, punch or just plain blow me up.

In France it's more than just segregation didn't they pass specific laws against muslim children regarding what they can and cannot wear to school? or did that not pass. Aren't there other pressures as well from the french government?

Any french people on ATS wanna clear this up for me?

My fear is that the muslim population in France is going to implode and what would normally be viewed as civil disobedience will be viewed as a terrorist uprising and all hell will break loose.

The one thing the Bush administration wants more than anything else is a good P.R. campaign and having U.S. troops in the french countryside would look a heck of a lot like good ol' WW2 which them boys in the white house are just itching to compare the current war to.

If that happens, everybody's screwed.

And don't think the French government wouldn't be given massive incentives (ie bribes) from us to get our troops in there working with the french troops "Hunting down this threat to world peace" or some such other future press release.

SPiderj

Well this is the first thing France has done right in a really long time!

This high procentage of Muslims in France's prison population is merely a speculation because French goverment don't want to release this information. And IMO this is correct, because this kind of info serves perfectly for someones political or religious agenda. It can be manipulated and twisted in every and any maner possible.

The real question we have to ask ourselves is for what type of crimes are those alledged Muslim prisoners incarcerated.

Drug related?
Violent crimes?
Burglaries?
Sex ofenders?
Financial crimes?

Or simply because they are Muslims?

And the last one I find hard to believe.

Criminal is a criminal regardles of sex, nationality or religion.
Commit a crime, do the time.

[edit on 22-6-2005 by yanchek]

Originally posted by yanchek
Criminal is a criminal regardles of sex, nationality or religion.
Commit a crime, do the time.

There ya' go. Personal responsibility. Novel idea, eh?

From the article -

Prison authorities have even become phobic about
rising fanaticism in prisons to the extent that they sometimes
deny Muslim prisoners the right to have prayer rugs ...

Oh goodness. You mean to say that AMERICANS at GITMO are
treating the Muslim terrorists better than the French treat their
every day common criminal muslim prisoners? GITMO (American tax
payers) provides prayer rugs and Qurans for all muslim detainees.
Meals designed to accomodate the Muslim religion too. A Muslim
chaplain or two and time for prayers and bowing towards Mecca.

Do as I say, not as I do, eh France?

I'd say: "What's the source of this very questionable factoid, al-jazeera?"
I notice that some of you U.S. bashers are already running with this quote as if God had inscribed it on stone tablets.

i found the link trough this pages (can't remeber which one exaclty): www.kcl.ac.uk...
www.hrw.org...
portland.indymedia.org...


Funny how i'm instantly promoted to US-basher. IMHO it's not realy showing respect to immediatly condem me, even tho i never posted anything remotly anti- U.S.... If anything, it encourages me to become anti US because of the general attitude "you are either with us or agaisnt us". FYI I posted figures i saw on more then 4 indepented websites.

Oh and this is a BBC article about it, i guess they are as baised as al jazeera...



[edit on 22-6-2005 by XyZeR]

Originally posted by kenshiro2012
nukunuku,
You need to double check the source again as Dan Park's article does have real political slant to it.
Notice who he wrote the article for:

International Socialist Review

Although I am not trying to dispute the numbers that Mr. Park is using, I would suggest that as with any statistic, the numbers can be made to promote whatever a person wants.

The International Socialist Review Website does present some good reads though

True Kenshiro, numbers can indeed be made to promote whatever a person wants

And its obvious what djohnsto77 wanted to prove with his post, im just balancing the force

peace

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Oh goodness. You mean to say that AMERICANS at GITMO are
treating the Muslim terrorists better than the French treat their
every day common criminal muslim prisoners? GITMO (American tax
payers) provides prayer rugs and Qurans for all muslim detainees.
Meals designed to accomodate the Muslim religion too. A Muslim
chaplain or two and time for prayers and bowing towards Mecca.

You are mixing apples and oranges. French prisoners were trialed and convicted by court of law.
GITMO alledged Terrorists are detainees and not prisoners. They were not convicted of anything yet (please dissregard shady US military court stuff).

But story about rugs and Qurans are blown way out of proportion.

I think Allah will undestand and forgive this detainees (or French prisoners) for not practicing Muslim Faith every day.

You know i seen once in the TV a morrocian orgin guy trying to see his daughter but his ex-wife does not let him an he tried in the court to see her but no use .

They say that his wife is a masonic or something like that .

Imagine the image the mother put on her daughter not to see his father.


He is the first French guy that is on a politcail refugee in Amercia

You are mixing apples and oranges. French prisoners were trialed and convicted by court of law.
GITMO alledged Terrorists are detainees and not prisoners. They were not convicted of anything yet (please dissregard shady US military court stuff).

Shady US military court stuff?
POW’s have always been tried by Military tribunals, since when do POW’s get tied in the civilian courts of the country that is holding them?
And your answer still does not explain why France does not give them prayer rugs or Korans, yet if the U.S. denies on prisoner a Koran all hell would break loose

Originally posted by WestPoint23
And your answer still does not explain why France does not give them prayer rugs or Korans, yet if the U.S. denies on prisoner a Koran all hell would break loose

Maybe a decent seperation of state and church, that christian prisoners aren't given bibles and crosses on tax money either, is the answer?

its funny how they love to talk down to US policies, when they are following along like good puppets.

btw I like the avatar...but slavery , fascism, nazism, and communism....all still exist. Maybe if we change the definition of "end" it might work?

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Shady US military court stuff?
POW’s have always been tried by Military tribunals, since when do POW’s get tied in the civilian courts of the country that is holding them?
And your answer still does not explain why France does not give them prayer rugs or Korans, yet if the U.S. denies on prisoner a Koran all hell would break loose

How can this people without any clear status be trialed by any court in jurisdiction free zone?
Im posting an interesting view about GITMO. I think you shoud read it. Link
And this people are not prisoners, they are detainees.
We can discuss this issue on another thread.

Now for the French situation. The difference between GITMO detainees and French criminals is obvious. The French prisoners have the right to practise their faith, but IMO the French government cannot afford the personel and materials to oblige all the wishes of this prisoners. I saw one US documentary on practicing religion in US prisons. I saw one guy who changed his religion four times in period of 5-7 years. It was all tolerated, but when he asked that he needs a live chicken because he want's to practice woodoo that was just too much.

I wonder how many French prisoners are true believers and denied their rights or how many are fakes? He/she got jailed and suddenly found Allah? Maybe Frechies are just using common sence.

I don't know.

Personally, I wouldn't care much about some serial killers, rapist, pedofiles or drug trafficker's rights on religion practice.

Hey I agree with you but why is it a big deal when the US does not give Islamic prisoners Korans but it not a big deal when other countries like France do it. Its Hierocracy to the fullest.

And how much does a Koran and rug cost? Don't tell me it would bankrupt France.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Hey I agree with you but why is it a big deal when the US does not give Islamic prisoners Korans but it not a big deal when other countries like France do it. Its Hierocracy to the fullest. And how much does a Koran and rug cost? Don't tell me it would bankrupt France.

You mean hypocricy. And it is not a big deal because France doesn't provide bibles to christian prisoners either, there is a thing called separation of state and church and unlike in the US, there is no powerful religious right that hates that in France.

Originally posted by Simon666
You mean hypocricy. And it is not a big deal because France doesn't provide bibles to christian prisoners either, there is a thing called separation of state and church and unlike in the US, there is no powerful religious right that hates that in France.

Hmm, very interesting Simon. I didn't know that. Can you provide us with some links?

Much obliged.

Well, they certainly aren't provided by the French state if you read this:

www.biblesociety.org...

By the way, I do wonder whether it is even legal in the US to provide prisoners with bibles or korans, isn't this against the separation of state and church in the US as well?

Thanks Simon for this link.

National Prisons Day?

Now that's funny.