Boeing 757-200 crash into Pentagon. But where is the Jet?

Originally posted by infinite
The plane hit the bottom the the pentagon. Now there should be an impact marks on the ground. There SHOULD be plane wrecked on the lawn, but there isn't.Also what happend to the bodies of the passengers?? are we meant to believe that all the bodies turned into dust?? I don't think so somehow

What happened to the black box? thats the key thing here, if there is a black box, then there was a plane. The black box is the only part of the plane which never gets damaged.

So find the black box and you find out what happened.

pure ignorence. jet vule burns really really #ing hot when ignited. the bodies of the passengers were INCENORATED! as in nothing left. sure a few remain were found but still. its a fuvking plane crash. whole bodies are rarely recovered from them.

Originally posted by Lukefj
STEE,

I think the difference in skepticism between the WTC crashes and the Pentagon crash is in the video, first there are frames missing from the Pentagon video...why? Second, you clearly see the planes crash into the WTC...you see nothing of the sort in the Pentagon video.

I don't believe everythign people say they see. People see a lot of things they're told to. Don't dismiss it because your friend's wife said she heard the rumble of a plane (pretty ambiguous statement). I'm not dismissing anythign until I see it.

its film form a security camera. look at convenice store footage when they get robbed, are they not glitchy also. more pure ignorance.

mOjOm, Skadi

I think the sharing of facts and cross-checking of facts is very worthwhile.

Many people here are quite good at that.

Eventually, even for some of those, the blinkers end up being applied and they have to use the 'selective intelligence' method to back up the political doctrines they were raised into. Someone accepts a fact, then the next day refutes the acceptance, because after all it points to negligence or criminality in the current administration.

You can't change those people. Yesterday the remark was made that 1,000,000 Iraqi lives are worth less than the life of one US soldier. The member who made that remark is now ignored by me. I have found it useful to engage in discussion with people in all parts of the spectrum, and I only really dismiss those whose core value and philosophy is corrupt.

Neither of you guys show any such signs.

BTW, where do you think the fourth plane taken down by Beamer & Co was heading?

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Mojo, you brain farting twinkie, i ddnt say ATS was stupid, i was referring to the idiot site that claims the pentagon was hit with a missile and no planes were used was beyond retardation. Do you know how to read, you vegetable? Even a 5 year old could have come to that conclusion.

You are proof that American's remedial education has been sadly neglected, sigh.

if I thought ATS was stupid, I wouldnt be on this site.

Lets remember.. 11.9.2001 I came home.. turned tv on and sat down on a chair.. soon came "Special-news" there had been a "accident" that one of the wtc had taken hit from a plane.. they showed live from NY 1 tower in flames.. and at this time called my friend.. telling me that Yanks are getting their azz kicked.. i told him that i am watching this.. as we talk over the phone (tv was this on..) we saw the 2. tower taking the hit on live tv-news.. then i told my friend that this isnt a "crash" but a an attack.. Then we finished te talking and i continued to watch this SHOW live..

Two important things that were said by Pentagon / White house during that day i remember..

1. They told that they had scrambled interceptors.. 2 F-16s to Chase the plane that would end up "crashing" on a field.. And they said that if nothing else works that they would shot it down..

2. When Pentagon was hit they said it had been a CAR BOMB..



Now.. these stories changed.. why? Those were the truht.. a american passenger jet shot down by USAF, to limit damage and a CAR BOMB on pentagon.. considering what had allready happened at WTC these things aint no big deal.. But it seems it is too much to White House to admit that it was a shot down to save more lives..

[Edited on 13-8-2003 by Uninen]

Uninen

There were also strict security measures and failsafe measures in place to prevent WTC strikes #'s 1 & 2. These were not implemented by the 'Commander In Chief'. In any other country that person would have been sacked outright, on the spot.

My understanding is the scrambling was held back until it was too late. There is a myth that jets scrambled from too far away were on the tail of the first two hijacked planes, but couldn't catch them. BS.

Another member says the fighter jets were called off. No idea why that would happen, at all.

While I can't account for the Pennsylvania crash, except for the 'heroic' version (although I have read eyewitness accounts of a low flying military jet there less than a minute before impact), I am prepared to accept that the 'car bomb' at the Pentagon was misreporting, and the later version of the hijacked plane striking the Pentagon is correct.

There is far too much mythology perpetrated at ATS, hearsay not backed by substance.

On 9/11 subjects in particular, I have found it hard to sort out the dross from the quality new material or interpretation. Such is a discussion forum, but it does indicate some lack of guidance to posters on reading before posting.

In fact those details I usually leave alone because there are much more important one to be asking.

I knew there was a problem just because of the fact that it happened in the first place. The fact that 4 757 jetliners with that much time still made it here smashing two into the WTC and another to the mid U.S. before going down was a clear enough sign to me there was a rotten apple on our already withering branch. I usually look at where the root of the problem is, cause if you don't you end up losing the whole tree.

In the case of seeing all these picture, I just sorta thought I'd see a plane or wing or something. Especially when the place is still on fire an all and we are talking about a huge passenger jetliner here, not some buddy holly plane.

1. Passenger plane speed: 850-900km/h max level-flight..

F-16 speed: Mach 2,5 (1 mach -> about 1300km/h)

So it should be EASY to catch a target even if it had a good ahead start.. and AMRAAM has range over 80km / 50 miles

2. Those 2 claims at my earlier post where made by US GOV. spokesman at the time.. he told the same thing to all world media.. their story just changed..

You just should listen and remember what they say on TV.. maybe record it so you could prove later what you was told..

Reason no planes scrambled after first plane hit WTC?? We didn't know it was an attack. We thought it was an accident. It wasn't until the second one hit that we knew we were under attack.

Second, with the Pentagon. The Pentagon is a fortifide building. Reason more wasn't destroyed was because it was built for war. But a airplane is thin metal, thin metal that goes bye bye pretty easily.

Third, have heard of jet taking out the plane in Penn, but the government would have told the people, most likely. Why not? We were under attack, another plane was hijaked, I think the people would have understood the jet shooting down another terrorist missle.

Fourth, Mojo, learn the facts, use credible sites, and don't flame people. That is just asking to be warned, as you were. And also, with sites, if using a bad site, well, makes you look bad.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Reason no planes scrambled after first plane hit WTC?? We didn't know it was an attack. We thought it was an accident. It wasn't until the second one hit that we knew we were under attack.

James

As you suggest to mOjOm, to look at the authenticity of material, I would say the same to you on your first point.

What you say on this is completely implausible. There is no possibility that anyone in the Bush administration could have viewed the first strike by a hijacked jet as an accident, even for a few seconds, no matter what imbecile Bush says about a 'horrible pilot' in his various distorted versions over eight months about the same lie.

That was a really good lie, to test the gullibility of the American public at large. It sure seems to have worked.

The bottom line to all this is that the attacks and the eventual tragedies were allowed to happen. This was in accordance with the priciple outlines of PNAC. Hence the "Pearl Harbor Event" outlined in PNAC.
Though I tend to look beyond PNAC as being a "strictly" America agenda...I see it more as a 'tool' to hasten the progress of the NWO.

regards
seekerorf

[Edited on 13-8-2003 by Seekerof]

Who was I flaming in your opinion here guy? That was like hours ago maybe you should try and pay attention yourself.

Ok, no planes scrambled because we didn't know it was an attack. Sure, that makes sense man....I suppose all the air trafic controlers were out getting coffee too. Something should have been realized before a plane hit the damn building!

You must have all the facts then James so let's see em huh?!?!? Amaze me with your incredible knowledge pal. All this bitchin' and crap was over until you piped in hours later, so ya might as well keep goin now. I just can't wait!

James, Mojo and Mask are right: look at the facts.

First of all, the first plane had been hijack confirmed for about 30 minutes or so before hitting. A hijacking alone is reason enough to scramble fighter jets, that standard FAA proceedure. Barring hijacking, the fact that the transponder signal was lost, and suspicious circumstances surrounded it, was enough to scramble hijackers. Loss of transponder signal longer than 5 minutes is an emergency by FAA rules. A plane without transponder is a mid air collision waiting to happen. Since the FAA has dispatched fighters 67 times in the year 2001 before the attacks, for everything from no transpoder to loss of communication to deviating from flight path. Flight 11 deviated totally from flight path, loss transponder, lost communication...all are triple reasons the FAA should have dispatched fighters, which they had done many times nefore for the same reasons. Flight 11 may not have been able to have been intercepted in time, but a jet would have arrived to see it crash int he world trade center, and intercept the seconf jet 15 minutes away.

No excuses, what was the FAA on that day? Lets say, ok, forget New york. No planes disptached. When the second plane hit, everyone knew it was no accident. Sop then, why did flight 77 hit the pentagon?

Has anyone paid attention? The pentagon, for one, has surface to air missles. None were used. Flight 77 was confirmed hijacked right when the first plane hit. No jets scrambled. It made a 180 degree turn, and radar readigs showed it heading right back toward washington dc. Nothing scrambled. two planes hit the WTC, both hijack confirmed. Nothing done. Flight 77 barrels towards DC. The nations capitol, where, Goerge bush, wasnt present, but the VP was. After two atatcks on US soil, a third plane hijack confirmed with no transponder, and last seen turning 180 toward washington dc. No ine in the capitol evacuated. No one warned. No jets scrambled. For 40 minutes it made its way back home. frantic calls freom the passengers telling the world they had been hijacked, even one, a prominent and well known figure: barbara Olsen. No planes yet. Finally, about 9:25 or so, ten minutes before the plane hit, they finally decoide to scramble a jet from langley in Virginia, 170 miles away, flying at half the speed it was capable of. Didnt get there till well after the plane struck. Why Langley? Andrews airforce base, home of airforce on, the PREZ jet, always has fighters on alert at all times (it is Air Force One, after all, do you think the prez plane and its home base is gonna have anything but a #ing armada on alert at all times? and Andrews is 15 minutes from DC. VERY close. Right across the bay from DC.). No fighters scrambled. Then after the plane hit, after the last plane was shot down......then suddenly fighters pop out from Andrews and everywhere.......and boom! Planes everywhere! but, too mlate, # already happened.

And you still think the gov had nuthin to do with it? LMAO!

Uni, Im glad the death of 3000 Americans amuses you so much. Coming from a denizen of a #ty worthless little country like Finalnd that has only been either the doorstop of the Russians, the whore of the Nazis, or the stompoing grounds for vikings, it is udnerstandable to enjoy the misfirtune of 3000 people in a country you so hate because simply, well, weve done a hell of alot more then you could ever imagine, lol. But, your intitled to your little triumphs, its all you have, now that your a bottom boy for the European Union, the only way you could ever hope to even be remebered in the world, Ill give you your little amusements, lol. other than the sauna, you pretty much have been a useless, unremarkable country in history, so I guess the little people have to have thier laugh. Ill let you have yours. Doesnt change anything. Youll always be dependant on someone for protection, food, whatever....another insignifgant blob of dirt in the big bad scary world.

NOW THATS FUNNY.

KrazyIvan,

Would you not expect the security camera at the Pentagon to be of higher quality than that found in a convenience store. Personally, I think it should have been better.

Also, I never said it couldn't have been a plane, I said I wasn't coming to any conclusions until I see it.

Think before you accuse people of pure ignorance, by not considering other options it is you who is being ignorant.

Cheers.
LJ

[Edited on 13-8-2003 by Lukefj]

...the pilot of that plane hit right at the base of the building,maybe right at the base without even touching the grass (not an impossibility)..

...the base of the building is the foundation,the strongest part of the building,it would have caused the plane to disintegrate more completely from more abrupt deceleration forces..

...the deceleration forces were greater for the plane,the people were probably instant chunky goo..

...the plane was boogyin along about 250mph most of it probably went aways into the second ring at least..

...if the plane nearly totally disintegrated from such abrupt deceleration forces,and the people were reduced to goo on impact,and then the fuel ignited,and then the building collapsed on top of it...

The plane,the people,the building were crushed squished , burnt and smashed.I am sure the emergency crews got a good look at what little remained of the whole mess,and I am sure that if there was some footage of the carnage it would have been edited out,and I am sure that anything that was left of the plane was pretty much unrecognizable as such.

Ok you say,but.......

Ok,I say to myself ,if it happened,WHY did it happen?,why was it allowed to happen?,who allowed it to happen?,who could possibly gain?.

This war is too convenient,about the time people begin to wonder what happened yesterday,some other thing happens today that steals away their attention.But it makes no difference,you can vote and demonstrate and do whatever you want to try to change things,it makes s no difference.
-it is all meaningless-

Unbalanced

Your questions are very important.

Your conclusion is powerless.

You are unbalanced.

Like a sheep among wolves.

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf FCK YOU. Everything that US has "invented" it has stolen from NAZIS after ww2.. even the lies of Mr.Bush sound just like something that Goebbels would write.. and another thing Mr.Bush borrowed from nazis.. A.Hitler himself.. Bigger the lie, more people will belive it is the truht..

Finland in another hand has invented by itself following "sh1t":

MOBILE PHONE.. Finnish invention.. first was build here.. and the last one will also..
www.nokia.com...

All modern Mortars and Field guns are copies of Finnish designs
www.patria.fi...

Linux..
www.linux.com...

AIV method..
www.nobel.se...

And so many other things that i really do have the time..

What does the US has.. and dont say the A-BOMB.. as it was and is GERMAN-JEW product.. allways has been.. and will be.. Without mobile phones US people would still be using smoke signals.. without our mortars and guns you would be throwing stones at Iraqis.. and without linux.. well we are stuck with this piece of sh1t windows..

unremarkable country in history, Finland? No.. you see we saved the mankind.. 1941.. Russia was collapsing and our German friends wanted us to storm the LENINGRAD.. and CUT THE MURMANSK RAIL + TAKE THE MURMANSK.. but we didnt.. IT WOULD HAVE BEEN EASY TO DO.. but our leaders know what the Nazi-Germany was about.. and decited that if they couldnt win war by themself.. that we arent going to do it for them.. if we had done what the Germans wanted us to do.. Operation Barbarossa would have been over before the winter 1941.. So be clad that you dont have to call me as "Mein Herr SS fuhrer.." we saved everybodys azz.

[Edited on 14-8-2003 by Uninen]

Uninen

I 'pictured' you saying that to Skadi in OBL's voice, and while it was a humorous aural image, the reference to blossoming in bold letters would seem to indicate you are making a rapid exit from ATS, which is a shame, because you would probably be recognized on your next attempt at a visit.

9/11 is a hot topic. There are people armed with different levels of factual background who have 200 pieces of the 1000 piece jigsaw puzzle connected, while others can't even fit two together.

It's good to be able to assemble the facts co-operatively without the abuse. To me the abuse is almost as bad as someone visiting this thread to say the Bush administration has nothing to account for and go away and leave it alone.

Be nice, and others will be nice to you, sometimes.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
James, Mojo and Mask are right: look at the facts.

First of all, the first plane had been hijack confirmed for about 30 minutes or so before hitting. A hijacking alone is reason enough to scramble fighter jets, that standard FAA proceedure. Barring hijacking, the fact that the transponder signal was lost, and suspicious circumstances surrounded it, was enough to scramble hijackers. Loss of transponder signal longer than 5 minutes is an emergency by FAA rules. A plane without transponder is a mid air collision waiting to happen. Since the FAA has dispatched fighters 67 times in the year 2001 before the attacks, for everything from no transpoder to loss of communication to deviating from flight path. Flight 11 deviated totally from flight path, loss transponder, lost communication...all are triple reasons the FAA should have dispatched fighters, which they had done many times nefore for the same reasons. Flight 11 may not have been able to have been intercepted in time, but a jet would have arrived to see it crash int he world trade center, and intercept the seconf jet 15 minutes away.

No excuses, what was the FAA on that day? Lets say, ok, forget New york. No planes disptached. When the second plane hit, everyone knew it was no accident. Sop then, why did flight 77 hit the pentagon?

Has anyone paid attention? The pentagon, for one, has surface to air missles. None were used. Flight 77 was confirmed hijacked right when the first plane hit. No jets scrambled. It made a 180 degree turn, and radar readigs showed it heading right back toward washington dc. Nothing scrambled. two planes hit the WTC, both hijack confirmed. Nothing done. Flight 77 barrels towards DC. The nations capitol, where, Goerge bush, wasnt present, but the VP was. After two atatcks on US soil, a third plane hijack confirmed with no transponder, and last seen turning 180 toward washington dc. No ine in the capitol evacuated. No one warned. No jets scrambled. For 40 minutes it made its way back home. frantic calls freom the passengers telling the world they had been hijacked, even one, a prominent and well known figure: barbara Olsen. No planes yet. Finally, about 9:25 or so, ten minutes before the plane hit, they finally decoide to scramble a jet from langley in Virginia, 170 miles away, flying at half the speed it was capable of. Didnt get there till well after the plane struck. Why Langley? Andrews airforce base, home of airforce on, the PREZ jet, always has fighters on alert at all times (it is Air Force One, after all, do you think the prez plane and its home base is gonna have anything but a #ing armada on alert at all times? and Andrews is 15 minutes from DC. VERY close. Right across the bay from DC.). No fighters scrambled. Then after the plane hit, after the last plane was shot down......then suddenly fighters pop out from Andrews and everywhere.......and boom! Planes everywhere! but, too mlate, # already happened.

And you still think the gov had nuthin to do with it? LMAO!

Uni, Im glad the death of 3000 Americans amuses you so much. Coming from a denizen of a #ty worthless little country like Finalnd that has only been either the doorstop of the Russians, the whore of the Nazis, or the stompoing grounds for vikings, it is udnerstandable to enjoy the misfirtune of 3000 people in a country you so hate because simply, well, weve done a hell of alot more then you could ever imagine, lol. But, your intitled to your little triumphs, its all you have, now that your a bottom boy for the European Union, the only way you could ever hope to even be remebered in the world, Ill give you your little amusements, lol. other than the sauna, you pretty much have been a useless, unremarkable country in history, so I guess the little people have to have thier laugh. Ill let you have yours. Doesnt change anything. Youll always be dependant on someone for protection, food, whatever....another insignifgant blob of dirt in the big bad scary world.

NOW THATS FUNNY.

THIS is the abuse.. as you read this hole tread you will see that i havent been amused by 3000 deaths.. but Skadi thinks i have been.. and is insulting me.. that much for abuse..

The Bushies have a lot to account for,yes,but that makes no difference.

The political type fellers here in the US and everywhere else are not held accountable the same way us miniscule people are,we mess up,we get canned,lose everything and end up in the nuthouse or dead.

Political type fellers just go on to another high paying job outside the government...

Me?,I just went crazy and started filing paperwork.