NEWS: Teen Sent To Gay "Treatment" Camp Against His Will

FACT: Gay people are born gay, it's a biological "deviation" and not a choice/lifestyle.

FACT: There is no "cure" or therapy to make gay people straight.

FACT: Being born gay is the #1 reason for youngsters to commit suicide.



Now, I am a christian myself and I am in general disgusted by the anti-gay sentiments of some so-called christians in here.
Gay people do not mock anyone by engaging in relationships, marrying, or even adopting children. If you "feel" mocked, you should get real and stop being a pathetic crybaby.

Start focussing on the real problems in this world...

Originally posted by IBM
His parents did the right thing. Some parents send thier kids to fat camp for them to lose weight which is healthy. Being gay is unhealty to life, because there is a higher chance of contracting HIV. It is in Zacks best intersest this program. He will thank his parents when he is older.

You still have no freaking clue do you?
Such camps can not change Zack, just like similar camps couldn't make YOU gay.

Now I wonder, when will you finally see the light IBM?
I fear never.

[edit on 19-6-2005 by Jakko]

Originally posted by IBM
Being gay is unhealty to life, because there is a higher chance of contracting HIV. It is in Zacks best intersest this program. He will thank his parents when he is older.

This is provided the religious zealots are right, and being gay is really something you can be "cured" from. However, if they're wrong - and I believe they are - then I would answer that repressing one's being gay is unhealthy to life, since a good number of repressed gays end up committing suicide.

But the folks at this nut camp don't seem to care about that. And when you hear those people say that they don't mind that much if the kid commits suicide - as long as they save his eternal soul - then you know that you can expect pretty much any kind of horror from them.

They are NOT Christians.

masterp, as well as the others so vehemently disagreeing with me, I haven't once pronounced judgement on homosexuals. What sentence have I deemed for them? What punishment have I directed?

As for your suicide comment...my best friend committed suicide. I also helped someone out of that dark, downward spiral. I had two good friends that are gay. They know where I stand on the issue. I understand that I alone could not change their ways, so I didn't attempt to. By merely stating my view was the sewing of the seed. If they chhose to pursue their lifestyle, it is their decision and they will some day have to answer for it.

Also, masterp, if you would read previous posts by me in this thread you would find my answers to "gays being made" and "why parents aren't blamed". But if that is too much I will state it again...just for you.

Gays weren't "made", as you put it. Homosexuality is a choice.
The parents are wrong for sending their child to that camp, in my opinion. The parents should have found counselling themselves to help them determine how best to cope with the choice that their son has made. Just because a parent does not want to deal with a situation, doesn't mean that they should send their child to have someone else handle the situation for them. Maybe the attention and guidance of his parents is all this person needs...

Originally posted by BadMojo
Gays weren't "made", as you put it. Homosexuality is a choice.

Having the actual sex is (of course) always a choice.
But being gay is not a choice.
Do you understand the difference between desire and actual sex, and how these 2 are linked?

If so, then what you are saying is that sex is only for those lucky enough to be born straight. I do not think God works like that.

I find it ironic as hell, all the people stating how gay is wrong, their sick, they need salvation, they are deviants .......... I guess a gay person has no thought process whatsoever, they are like zombies, no mind, no sense of self, on and on. How can they? When all the anti-gay people are telling THEM what they are.

Just an observation.

Ya know, this, in essence, is what the US does in whole, sticks their nose into OTHER peoples business, attempting to force its own values on them. I guess you are all just being patriotic, and getting into gay peoples business, and forcing your values on them. Crap like this sometimes make me wish I were gay, being I am quite the violent sort ....... tell me my business, uh-huh.

Misfit

jakko, where is the CONCLUSIVE proof that some people are born gay. To say that any child below the age of 5 is homosexual is preposterous. Just becuase it may be changable in a fly's genes? An ape? A fish? A rat? I think more highly of humans than that. With all of the recent reversals in scientific findings in areas of health, I would be hard pressed to say that we have conclusive proof of your theory.

Mojo - I very much respect your decision not to try to change your friends who are gay, and I'm glad you think the parents did the wrong thing by sending their kid to that camp.

BUT... how do you account for a good number of homosexuals saying that not once in their life did they feel an attraction for the other sex, and that it never crossed their mind that they could be anything else but gay?

otts, my honest answer is...lacking of proper parenting. The US is HUGELY lacking in this category these days. I won't comment more on the MULTITUDE of problems with many of todays parents because I believe we are somewhat stetching the boundaries of this thread as it is...

Originally posted by BadMojo
jakko, where is the CONCLUSIVE proof that some people are born gay. To say that any child below the age of 5 is homosexual is preposterous. Just becuase it may be changable in a fly's genes? An ape? A fish? A rat? I think more highly of humans than that. With all of the recent reversals in scientific findings in areas of health, I would be hard pressed to say that we have conclusive proof of your theory.

Badmojo, there are enough experiments and researches regarding gay animals and gay human beings that point in the direction of being gay being a state in which we are born.

Want me to get you some links?

silflayhraka.com...

www.timesonline.co.uk...

I can get more if you want.

Speaking of toeing the boundaries of the thread... how about transsexuals? I've had the chance to have a really good conversation with one (male to female) who was telling me that even when she was 4 or 5 years old, she could not for the life of her imagine herself as a boy, even inside a boy's body.

That would tend to show that it's something she was born with...

Originally posted by BadMojo
otts, my honest answer is...lacking of proper parenting.

Gotta strongly disagree with that one ....... via relationship.

Long ago I worked at a retail store (my worst nightmare).
The manager, damn good guy, was gay.
I got to know not only him but his parents as well, in a deep, bonded friendship.
I KNOW his parents are outstanding people. The Mr was not only a corp exec (within the same co as my workplace) but also served on community chairs. The Mrs, sweetest woman one could know, stayed home all her life for the PROPER raising of 3 children. All 3 are well rounded in life, college grads, stable homelives, great careers. Only thing different from your "proper" homelife is that one of these kids, just as well-rounded as his siblings, is gay.
The parents not once had ever shunned in any way their sons being gay. What it did do, in fact, was strengthen their family relationship because it already was an era that being gay was being deviant.
My point is, "lack of proper parenting" is bull#. Where the hell did you pull that from anyway? Sounds like the back of a damn church tract.

Misfit

Both of those links were VERY weak, jakko. Words like "may" and "possibility" show no conclusive proof. And since when is a sheep a human? Basing human behavioral theories on animal experiments is bad science. If your brain is that of a sheep, then it may apply.

But the second link is a gold mine, thanks. These prenatal conditions are not NATURAL. There has been outside influence by various chemicals/drugs. This is my favorite part...I quote

The report concludes: “The most noteworthy findings were that if prenatal therapeutic substances affect offspring sexual orientation, the effects are mainly confined to female offspring and are limited to the first trimester of pregnancy."

The key word here is that first IF. So, as I previously stated, there is no CONCLUSIVE proof that homosexuality is a natural born condition in humans.

Look, you're a fundie.
No amount of evidence is going to convince you, because reality simply isn't important to you.

I don't know how else to put it, but that's basically it.
There is simply no point in talking to you people, because you are immune to any form of reason.

It's like talking to someone who believes the Earth is flat.
We can produce reams and reams of empirical evidence, and no matter how conclusively it's proven, it won't make a dent.

There is no point in debating a fanatic.

[edit on 6/19/05 by xmotex]

Originally posted by WyrdeOne

Secondly, Through which action of mine have I offended your religious faith?

Your intolerance is offensive, not to mention dangerous.

But as you are not a homosexual you are in no position to say that my "intolerance" towards homosexuality is offensive as you are afflicted with their predicament!
Also how does my dislike of them present any danger? It is they who have plotted to bring upon the fall of society and the utter corruption of all that is holy in this country!

Your faith and values are not above mockery. They are sacred only to you. We live in a society that has freedom of religion, not mandatory religion. Understand the difference?

So is their "faith" !It is not above mokery nor is it above our ability to safegaurd our society! Homosexuality is dear only to them and not to the majority, we need not tolerate what the majority deems as repugnant!
I have never stated that anything about religion i mearly talk about spirituality! They are too very different things! So where does the question of mandatory religion arise? It is self evident that i don't speak about religion!

On the record, if two gay men fornicated in front of you with the intent to cause you distress, you'd have a case, you'd have every right to be offended to the point of seeking retribution. However, imagining what people are doing and being offended doesn't give you the right to persecute them.

Well they do exhibit their sexuality publicly! In every parade and in every chance they get, they exhibit their sexuality, simply to intimidate the spiritual sentiments of the many. They purposely seek to destroy morality by insidiously convincing society that " Look we are the new freaks in town so you can either live with us or we will sue you all and make your lives miserable!", society has nowhere to turn to this all consuming evil that seeks to destroy the very fabric of morality that holds our society together! This is not acceptable and will not be acceptable, it is the minority that accommodates and not the majority!
It is not that we do not try to steer away from this plague and its proponents but in everyday life it is necessary to interact with these people to function effectively, this causes the strife!
If all the liberals are out propagating this degeneracy then who's going to protect society from collapsing?
It due to their insidious efforts that we see a 17-year-old declare his sexuality! What did he expect a medal? A pat on the back and a sloppy kiss? Through his delusions he has not only dammed himself but also put to shame his immediate family and caused serious psychological trauma to his parents, they blame themselves as it would be if your child turned into a serial killer or a rapist!
I feel the blame lies not with his parents or the boy but the environment, which he was exposed to! The typical 'Will and Grace' propaganda that so many liberals help support! There is no such decadence! No such "gay" utopia!

Thing is, they're not doing it to cause you distress, your distress comes entirely from you.
When I see those people kissing, I don't get offended, so the act in and of itself is not patently, universally offensive. That means you're the problem, you're the lens through which everything passes.

Ever ready to blame the majority yet always reluctant to admit that something might be wrong with oneself! Cannot expect this from the gay community and their cartel!

You state that YOu don't find it offensive but that is just you, just as I see it as offencive! So if they can accept your argument that it isn't offensive to you and let it contimue, why can't they accept my argument and stop it immediately!! They will not! A stranger might stop smoking if you find it offensive but a homosexual will never stop exhibiting his "gay pride" in public! Why is this? is the reasonable question to ask. The answer is that the gay person sees his sexuality to be something that defines him and without it they find themselves lost, almost happless, they are victims of temptation.

It just so happens your lens is clouded by religious views, and so you see through the glass, but darkly. Instead of a live and let live approach to life, you have chosen a more controlling path. You seek to direct the lives of others, and that is unacceptable to me, and to many others in this country, not to mention the world.

Your attempts at a spiritual analogy are humorous, lens indeed!
My perception is formed from my beliefs both of the physical and the spiritual, none has precedence over the other. My perception on this matter is not something that deviates from the standard perception. You claim that this perception of homosexuality is wrong i.e. the perceptions of many are wrong and you are right!! Doesn't that repudiate your beliefs?
I wish merely to direct my life, which is not possible as they don't follow the live and let live policy, They go by the "we live and dictate how you live" policy, which I find very reprehensible!
The idea that I must conform to meet their values while they make no attempt to see that society is not inconvenienced by their existence seems to me as the biggest point of contention!
Why do we have to make the sacrifices and not them, even though this is a free country it doesn't mean you are 'free' to change society to match ones perversion or level of social decadence!
The day when we have little "homies" running about is the day when we can mark an end to civilization and the onset of humanity’s death!


[edit on 19-6-2005 by IAF101]

Originally posted by IAF101
But as you are not a homosexual you are in no position to say that my "intolerance" towards homosexuality is offensive as you are afflicted with their predicament!

So just because we have not experienced something means we can't feel sorrow for those people who have to suffer it? So I can't hate the intolerance of racists? Or hate what a rapist does due to the fact I have never gone through it?

Yet again your arguements are flawed.

IAF101

Uh.. what the hell?

What do you have to sacrifice..?
You said you have to make sacrifices but they don't.
What are you talking about?

I think the point of the arguement is, it is not acceptable to have morals that are not based in fact and use them to change other's lives, because it will only cause uneeded harm.

If two adult guys decide to have "realations" ( ).. then how does it affect you in anyway?

You don't have to watch.. I mean.. I would not want to.. but do you?



[edit on 19-6-2005 by Ksnazdnzon]

Originally posted by Odium
So just because we have not experienced something means we can't feel sorrow for those people who have to suffer it? So I can't hate the intolerance of racists? Or hate what a rapist does due to the fact I have never gone through it?

Again you rant needlessly! I was talking about how he claims that i have offended his religious faith! As homosexuality is not a faith and he isn't one of them so his allegations that I have offended his religious faith are baseless!

Yet again your arguements are flawed.

Now this is irony!

dictionary.reference.com...

A set of principles or beliefs.

dictionary.reference.com...

Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.

Originally posted by Ksnazdnzon
What do you have to sacrifice..?
You said you have to make sacrifices but they don't.
What are you talking about?

I have many things to compramize with the introduction of gays in society;
My morals, my values and my path to enlightenment!
Also the sickening interaction I have to have with "gays" to carry out my duties professionally and the mental attitude adopted towards gays and their community!

I think the point of the arguement is, it is not acceptable to have morals that are not based in fact and use them to change other's lives, because it will only cause uneeded harm.

How can you say that my morals aren't ? I don't want to change other peoples lives, I just want to continue mine!
Morals can never be proved by fact! How can you say that if you show compassion towards the poor and the destituted it is profitable? That you will have a place in heaven? One can't !
Morals are the basic values that are inherent in most cultures! Most people feel that killing is bad, most people find death to be sad and most people find "homosexuality" as unnatural!