Can Anyone Prove Any of the Topics in this forum actually Exist?

Wrong. I refuse to accept the idea that "you must believe it to see it."
That is the biggest lie in the world. True, some will simply reject even obvious proof, but the suggestion that only those who accept ts existance already can witness it allows you to claim absolutely anything.

Science will never be complete, but that is not the problem, because the topics and claims here REQUIRE physical proof. If nothing else, something should be able to be measured, unless your gonig to imply that I cant see it because I dont believe, in which case you can read the above.

Although I think you are just trying to start trouble here's a site that has some videos. www.psipog.net...
also sign up for these two sites and your questions will probably be better answered. forums.vsociety.net... www.xtrememind.com...

[edit on 26-7-2005 by zebede]

Originally posted by Raideur
Wrong. I refuse to accept the idea that "you must believe it to see it."
That is the biggest lie in the world.

Raid, I don't see you ..does that mean you don't exist?

Have you ever seen mars? well hey that could be faked. CGI? Photoshop right?
How about lava? Ever really seen lava? Again can be faked with photoshop.

You've never seen an atom have you? Do you have an electron spectrum scope to see down to the pico level? I suppose you don't. You know photos can be faked.

So technically you mean you don't have to see to believe it? Is that right? So then why don't you believe there are possibilities beyond your scope or comprehension.

I got a good one Raid.

Energy. you know its there...in fact many physicists believe there is only a limited amount of it in the universe. But where is it? Everywhere and science has proven that. Science has also proven that theat faint haze some people can see around people is a field of disassociated electrons. Some people call them auras. Scientists call them electron fields.

here is a bit of reading for your science. know that most of it was called by another name.

Alchemy to chemistry
www.phys.uu.nl..." target="_blank" class="postlink">astronomy to astrology

There are many more sciences that have derived from the strange and considered paranormal in its time.

So keep claiming there is no scientific basis on the hokey pokey world of paranormal. And we'll keep the light on for you so the monsters don't scare you.

-Aza

Its not that these topics are not possible, but rather that they show no proof, no suggestion for explaining using known facts, or showing any physical evidence.

Originally posted by Raideur
Its not that these topics are not possible, but rather that they show no proof, no suggestion for explaining using known facts, or showing any physical evidence.

Unfortunately, I've seen that lack of evidence too, Raideur. I find this forum quite interesting as well, too, though I seldom post in it. I notice the same problem in Aliens/UFO and Secret Societies, as well. There are lots of posts where people claim things as fact that have no evidence to support them.

I think that more serious research should be done into areas like the paranormal. This means applying rigorous scientific techniques, such as the scientific method, collecting data, and acquiring some hard evidence to back up or refute these claims. I'm very busy with all the stuff I'm already trying to read, but I hope to someday have time to learn more about paranormal stuff; I think it would be so cool if some portions of it turned out to be for real.

Raideur:
Can Anyone Prove Any of the Topics in this forum actually Exist?

Well, I can only speak for myself. I can't prove it. I'm quite skeptical when it comes to the paranormal. From what I've read, the vast majority of it is just people's stories. Some things do deserve further research and attention; tragically, these cases tend to get lumped in with the silly ones.

To all of the paranormal believer types: Maybe some of you can provide links/sources to some good case studies for the more skeptical sorts like Raideur and myself.

If you choose not to believe in somthing then it is your right to do so. Conversly if you choose to believe somthing despite mountains of evidence that is your right as well. But simply because you do not believe it yourself, and refuse to do your own unbiased research, does not make somthing untrue.

The very nature of ATS is that you may believe what you will, as long as you are willing to deflect the detractors. Some on this board are better at formulating a well researched post than others. However, that does not make anything they say less true. Personally I believe that someone willing to face ridicule for posting somthing that happend to them, knowing they have no supporting evidence, is braver than someone who makes a broad statement about not believing anything.

Just to be a pain I'd like to point out that you didn't offer much evidence to prove that people hardly every use evidence to back up their claims.

But to agree to a point, I'd like to see people adding as much supporting evidence as they can when it is available. For example, if you are starting a thread about the Federal Reserve System there is more than an abundance of resources to reference to.

The name says it all, but quite seriously, stories are quite fun to read, but talk is cheap and I almost never get any good facts to any of it. All dreams and feelings and hearsay and "my Buddy can read your Mind" junk.

I'm curious as to your take on SLI phenomenon. Even mainstream press has acknowledged it, such as this CNN story. (see link). While theories still abound, the simple FACT is that some people can affect electrical devices and do so more severely when in an emotional state. Regardless of the actual forces at play here, it is an example of PROVING mind over matter. If you're ever in the Tampa Bay area, drop me a U2U, and if seeing is believing, I'd be happy to show you firsthand SLI phenomena.... Granted, my case isn't nearly as severe as Debbie's (luckily), but enough to show the phenomena is very real.

www.cnn.com...

Certainly, this qualifies as "paranormal"...does it not?

no suggestion for explaining using known facts

We are dealing with severe "unknown" areas here. However, isn't it odd how modern sciences, such as Quantum Mechanics, etc. are just starting to lean towards confirming some old ideas about reality? While nobody has yet fully explained SLI or how/why it works, the physical result is easy to see, and demonstrate, for a SLIder....

[edit on 27-7-2005 by Gazrok]

Interesting.... but news sources are not to be blindly trusted either. I will look into this and whether any controlled experiments have been performed, which would settle the matter completely. If this is true, it would certainly make one wonder about things...

Hrm...that video isnt very believable....we really need a controlled test.
Anyone got links to this phenomeon under testing conditions? This would rule out any tricks or hoaxes.

The news will report anything, and I am well aware of that. However, if this is the real deal, you'd think it would receive more attention, dont you think?

The link below seems to be a very good history of ESP research and the scientific proof you may be seeking.

www.williamjames.com...

The problem lies not with these research projects, but with the people in this forum using them as false pillars to base some crazy story on. Just like someone misinterpreting science to support bogus claims.

I wish to debunk the falsehoods here, not attack their subject directly.

The news will report anything, and I am well aware of that. However, if this is the real deal, you'd think it would receive more attention, dont you think?

True. But you have no idea how vindicating it was to see that, for those of us who've had such issues as long as we could remember... It was nice to see it get ANY attention at all. The researcher mentioned in the article at the time, was continuing the research with other subjects. He had a website set up for case submissions, but he largely operates solely in the UK. I'd have to do a little checking, to see if more has come of it. It's a surprisingly easy thing to test and duplicate, so controlled conditions shouldn't be a big deal. I have no idea what the scientific principle is behind it, but the simple fact is that through a force of will, one can affect some electrical devices. Why it works on some lights and not others, no idea.

Another constant is that usually such people cause interference with antennae on tv/radios, etc. (if not using cable). Another easy thing to show in a controlled setting. Just slap a digital watch on about half of us, and that's an easy test. It really is surprising that something so easy to duplicate isn't studied more seriously. Psi research in general just isn't great for the old research career....so I guess it really isn't THAT surprising...

Controlled experiment means taking all variables into consideration, and elminating them so you can directly test the skill at hand with no room for error.

This would imply setting up a non-bias testing area, a monitered electrical system, monitered atmosphere of the test including eletrical potential, temperaure, etc. And lots and lots of cameras and sensors just so we have enough data so that we can determine what, if anything, is causing it.
And yes this does involve white coat work, but it would be the show-stopping conclusion to any questions about it.

Unfortunently, few of these types of people actually go through with such things, and besides amazing displays of willpower in affecting ones own body, I dont know of anyone performing extrasensory abilities or powers.

Originally posted by Odd
a lot of people don't believe any of this stuff.

that's why they don't post here.

i recommend the film 'What the (bleep) do we know?'. it's a good starting point for those interested in the science of the quantum world.

[edit on 6/14/2005 by Odd]

No, it is not.

Ugh, such a vast majority of these topics are just people who are completely paranoid trying to connect dots that dont exist and completely throw the physical laws and everything science has taught us right out the window so they can come to the amazing conclusion they want.

Im sorry about the following caps, but this is so needed for everyone here, and it applies to the good posts too, in which case they did think about this.

THINK RATIONALLY ABOUT WHAT YOUR CLAIMING AND HOW MUCH PROOF IT NEEDS BEFORE YOU CLAIM INCREDIBLE THINGS!

I think it's very natural to all humans to want to believe that there is something out there that we have absolutely no idea about, something supernatural and totaly fantastic as far as our present knowledge of things goes. If someone with the ultimate knowledge came in right now and said "Guys, there is no supenatural, ghosts don't exist, we are alone in the universe and when we die, we die forever. Oh, and time travel is not possible too", that would suck so much. And with this wish to believe most people don't want to seek for rational explanations. It is so much more interesting to think that there is something out there. It's like a game. I think nothing is wrong with it.

The only thing that saddens is that there are so much hoaxes are around. And with our present level of technology hoaxes will only get better and more realsitic to the point when it's not possible to prove it's not a hoax. So instead of drooling over some blurry but genuine orb, guessing could it be some mysterious being from another galaxy, we spend 99% of our time guessing whether something is hoax or not. Sad.

[edit on 11-8-2005 by deee]

Raideur, i just have a question for you :

What/Who made possible the fact that a human being, as well as other life forms, have been created to fit perfectly their environment ? Do you think the facts that we got eyes to see, ears to hear, etc, is a coincidence ?

Personally, Obviously not, and that points directly to the fact that there is something else. Science cannot think. Your "chemical based world" cannot make it all. Just think about it.

There is probably as much evidence for most paranormal phenomena as recipes for scrambled eggs. Evidence, not proof. Proof takes a willingness to accept the evidence and proceed from there. Some people don't want to do because it would mean that their destiny truly is in their own hands, and not after all in the hands of their chosen deity.

Here's a notion for you: Somewhere in the corridors of power is a section devoted to the proof we've never seen. Somewhere in the every one of the secret services of the world there are remote viewers and psychics. Somewhere, some elite scientists have long since ceased to gather their research together and are implementing their results.

When will we find out about it? When do we ever find out about government secrets? Right after the bomb drops.

What/Who made possible the fact that a human being, as well as other life forms, have been created to fit perfectly their environment ? Do you think the facts that we got eyes to see, ears to hear, etc, is a coincidence ?

No, I think it was evolution. Everything changes over time, and life changes to its benefit. I do not know how we came to question our world, but we must remember that even though we know can question our very existance and the world around us in terms of our senses, you must remember that the physical world dictates reality to us, and we act upon that.

I seriously just want people to think about what their saying, ask someone random if its a valid question. If they say its baloney, chances are, it just might be called that here..

Im not going to allow this thread to die while seeing topics created that have absolutely 0% validity and are purely the authors pathetic attempt for attention, drawing away from the real questions at hand, which I do not discriminate about.

Please, no more "Is my dog telepathic?!?" threads! Its just too much for someone who is looking for the real answers to sift through, just too annoying, and your not making the forum better, your making yourself look worse.

And if you just HAVE to post something like that, you better have some darn good evidence to back up such a claim.

There are still some messages on the "A Call for Truth" thread too. May want to revive that while you're at it.

Im not going to allow this thread to die while seeing topics created that have absolutely 0% validity and are purely the authors pathetic attempt for attention

....so you are making boards just for attention too then? Nobody says you have to keep coming here and getting all angry having to reply to all of our "complete baloney". You say you are looking for "real answers to sift through".... well then why not find a scientific forum somewhere that won't discuss "pathetic nonsense". This is the paranormal forum, and this is what the paranormal is about, weird crap that doesn't make any sense when you think about it narrow-mindedly and logically. If it made sense, we would just call it the "Normal Forum" and there wouldn't really be anything to discuss. Why don't you go check out the "Science and Technology" forum? It is still "cutting edge" enough that you will be learning things that you don't know, but it will actually be provable.

Seriously, stop thinking that you control the whole board and that we have to revolve our posts on what you will think of it. I am pretty sick of constantly having to read your negative posts. There is a difference between being a skeptic and an antisocial person that is just trying to cut down everyone else. You say that this entire forum is baloney, but you don't even put your money where your mouth is most of the time to tell WHY the things talked about here aren't possible. Why don't you DISPROVE some of these topics beyond a doubt? Seriously... what can we write in this forum that will be on-topic that you will approve of? You don't believe in religion, you don't believe in any of the topics by the looks of it. I think that we do need skeptics here, but you are like the über-skeptic. Your language is harsh, demeaning and one-sided. You aren't contributing anything productive (if anything in this forum is), you are just pissing a lot of people off. You don't need to say "prove this beyond a doubt", because we obviously all know that 90% of these topics cannot be proven, or they WOULD just be classified under science.

By now you should have realized that you will never change any of our beliefs, and we will never change you. So instead of arguing in circles about the same stupid things over and over, why don't you just give up? Stop complaining about having to complain. It's our loss if we want to put our beliefs and trust in stuff that has no backing. There are things doing a lot more harm to the world.

[edit on 19-8-2005 by Yarcofin]