Can Anyone Prove Any of the Topics in this forum actually Exist?

Originally posted by Raideur
Your example begs to be explained, since that obviously defies a couple of physical laws.

........ but cant reproduce it to be studied, unlike everything else in the universe........

i agree that it does obviously defy a couple of physical laws (as we interprit physical laws)

but, it can be reproduced and it is being studied.

they just cannot explain what it is they are doing, but it is happening regardless.

the same object, in 2 places at the same time.

" ... since the beginning of time ...."

if we have 1 object in 2 places at the same time, we have proven time travel is possible.

if we have proven time travel is possible, we've just proven time has sort of become a little less relevant,

we just don't know how to explain the how the results are achieved by the process.

we know the steps taken.
we can reproduce them.
we can't explain the mechanics of why it does what it does.

we don't know why the results are the way they are, we just know we can observe the same object in 2 places at the same time.


[edit on 18/6/05 by Esoteric Teacher]

[edit on 18/6/05 by Esoteric Teacher]

And what is it that exists in 2 places in space at once...

I believe you said a molecule, but if this was true, not only would it be the same type of atoms, but the electrons on each of the atoms would be perfectly similiar to the other molecule, along with spin rates, etc.

This just sounds like bogus "Oh Look what we think we found!" kind of physics.
We'll see if this holds up to any criticism or just becomes another cold fusion story.

Originally posted by Raideur
And what is it that exists in 2 places in space at once...

a cluster of a billion molecules, visible to the naked eye, in a sterile vacuum chamber and chemically analyzed to prove it was the same cluster of a billion molecules in both places at the same time, reproduced and witnessed by top scientists, multiple times, multiple locations, multiple witnesses that were more intelligent than us, with more education, and they were just as sceptical, and still are. but the results continue to be the same.

I believe you said a molecule, but ....

a cluster of a billion molecules, visible to the naked eye, in a sterile vacuum chamber and chemically analyzed to prove it was the same cluster of a billion molecules in both places at the same time, reproduced and witnessed by top scientists, multiple times, multiple locations

This just sounds like bogus "Oh Look what we think we found!" kind of physics.
We'll see if this holds up to any criticism or just becomes another cold fusion story.

again your credentials verses thiers, may we see your credentials?

get your hands on $912,000,000 worth of equipment and test it yourself.
or show them your credentials and they will probably let you use thier equipment for an afternoon.

Any links? How could they know the spin of every electron of every molecule in a cluster of billions...?

If this is like up-scaled quantum entanglement, its probably not true, however, Im sure theres an explanation for it.

Links! I demand links!

Originally posted by Odd
a lot of people don't believe any of this stuff.

that's why they don't post here.



EDIT: and before you get too hung up on physical science, do some research on quantum physics. it turns out we really don't understand jack.

i recommend the film 'What the (bleep) do we know?'. it's a good starting point for those interested in the science of the quantum world, and it is available over the illegal peer-to-peer downloading client of your choice.

[edit on 6/14/2005 by Odd]

the links you demand came from the first response you had to this thread.
we still strongly suggest you see the movie "What The Bleep Do We Know"
and perhaps:
whatthebleep.com...
whatthebleep.com...

interesting accumilation of facts:
it seems scientists and doctors have been looking in every oriface of the body for a long time looking for an "observer".
of course, we all have memories of being something called the observer. and it also seems that it can be explained what parts of the brain does what, but no observer has been found to date.

therefore: (any logical mind would conclude) "How can you continue to view reality as real when the self determining it to be real is intangible?"
-Ramtha-

another interesting fact is that what was once viewed as static "matter" is not matter at all, but concentrated biths of energy/light that create a magnetic/electromagnetic field.

which is to say that matter itself is massless and does not truly exist.

in other words, you can not prove to me that you exist, because you cannot produce an observer, nor show me anything that is "matter".

another good site about what matter is / isn't, and time relativity.

www.friesian.com...

"The Quantum Zoo"

Cute, all the stuff they dont put in the grade school physics books because its over their heads and isnt technically "proven."

I wish someone could add gravity to the particle zoo, get a Nobel Award, and solve the greatest question of physics since Einstein came up with relativity.

Originally posted by Raideur
"The Quantum Zoo"

Cute, all the stuff they dont put in the grade school physics books because its over their heads and isnt technically "proven."

but, um, ..... it is proven. not by me, therefore, you need to address your complaints with all of the worlds top scientists and quantum physisists who say it is proven, just a few thousand people.

You may want to begin at correcting Yale, Havard, and Cambridge, after enlightening those three learning institutions, the rest will be a little easier.

I know its proven, but it remains a Theory and moreso, its over those highschoolers heads.

I dont ever claim to be bashing the top physicists in the world, so stop lining them up for imminent attack...

sorry. it makes sense to me, but explaining it properly obviously eludes me, or perhaps my communication skills while typing need some tweeking. at any rate, these people are making excellent sense of the toughest questions asked by the human race.

and in the movie "what the bleep do we know", which i've seen 20 some times, some of the worlds elite explain these things in easier to understand terms. in fact so easy to understand my mother's co-worker who is a teacher at Brown's Junior High/Middle School showed the movie to his 7th and 8th grade science classes. A week later i talked to the classes and i was surprised at how much they took in only watching the movie between 1 to 3 times.

I've revived this thread due to some rather........stupid claims on the paranormal forum, and would like to ask the general public if they have any proof for these incredible claims.....anything at all besides your word would be nice..

Dont tryto argue about perception of truth. I just want the person who claims he can talk to bacteria to attempt to justify his claim, regardless of how odd it may be.

Raideur, how much are you paying? LOL

Of course all of it exists. Every bit of it. Even if it didnt, this is where we give it life and breath and ultimately make it thrive.

The child is born unto ATS. Some times the child, should be locked in the basement of ATS but for the most part, its all there, the reality is there.

What else would you like to know?

I've said it, and I'll say it again ...

You can only know something if you've experienced it yourself.

It becomes a belief within yourself.

If only the person that experienced it believes it, that means you have no proof besides your own word....which is what I am here to dispute as nonsense, since anyone can claim anything, especially on the internet.

Once you believe in it since you've experienced it and everything you have as a human being tells you it's real ... then you just want to prove it real, to you, and to everyone else. That is why this site is here, this forum. It's not just one big directory of nonsense, it's a "What if?" forum ... a forum of possibilities.

[edit on 25-7-2005 by Zeta_101]

Deny Ignorance.
Proof is a nessesary step to insure you arent blindly following something that isnt true. Im not saying these topics have no validity, but they certainly lack any proof to make them even remotely possible.

My honest opinion on the whole subject is that the old addage "To the believer no amount of proof is necessary, and to the non-believer no amount of proof is possible."

I don't think that the proof you are looking for exists. Not that the phenomenon discussed here are bunk, you state yourself that the topics are valid, or that they did not happen to the individual(s) involved.

I simply don't think that science has a way to research this area yet.

Science has a basic flaw in how it views the world that has always irked me and always rubbed me as elitist and it blocks legitimate research into "fringe" fields because of it.....the saying is simply this "Extrodinary claims require extrodinary proof."

That is bunk......any claim requires the same amount of "proof" as any other calim in order to be considered valid. The statement is used exclusively towards any fringe subject that's thrown in the face of science and begging for help/recognition/ideas/research/anything...yet science refuses it b/c most legitimate (meaning accredited, certified, etc...) scientists refuse to believe that there's even a possibility that these things that millions of people have had happen to them over thousands of years exists....because science does not have the capacity to understand the nature of the phenomenon.

I just think you're barking up the wrong tree when asking for proof because there is nothing that I can reproduce for you...I can't take you to a house and promise you a ghost....I can't tell you that my friend will be predictably stressed out enough at 3:13.47am on August 6th to show you that he possesses the power, although uncontrolled, to move things with his mind.

The best hope I could offer you is to quit asking and go seek.....I was in the same boat as you several years ago...and then I experienced what so many of these people are talking about. I hooked up with a "ghost hunting" group around my local area and went through several nights of what I then considered B.S. until I saw what I was after.....proof. In a way that I hope I never see again..

I know that's really not what you want to hear and I'm not trying to disrespect you or anything of the sort because I've been in your position and I respect where you are coming from and what you are seeking.....so my advice is to find a group of some kind in your general area (there will almost certainly be one) and go with them.....be nice....don't be snotty with them (I was) and go on SEVERAL occassions...eventually you'll either find what you are looking for (and it will change your whole life) or you will give up and realize that you were right all along....

Just don't discount something because it can't be reliably reproduced...we're talking about personal experiences here searching for common threads, common conditions, common anything in order to help us explain it better and to help us research what is actually happening....we're just really having a hard time getting there because we don't get help from science..because somehow something that should be considered a holy grail of research is considered an "extrodinary claim" and thusly ignored as such.

The whole idea of the topics on this forum are that they cannot be proven by your standards.All things are possible in the realm of the human brain.Imagine someone telling the Wrght brothers that human flight was not a possibility and so they never tried to fly!!! Not one person alive knows what is impossible.Please don't limit yourself by expecting solid proof of things just because you won't let your brain soar to new heights.

I'd like to respond to the original topic of this post (yes i know it was four pages ago)

This is an age old statement, probably older than most of the theories it condemns. People always want to be convinced, they have an inborn need to know that they are right before they commit to any one way of thought. The simple fact of the matter is that most of our known history as a civilized species has consisted of conspiracies, perhaps not aliens or secret societies, but consider this for a second. Every four years there is a presidential election in the US, one man has thousands of people working in every facet of our society to convince millions of people to think and act in a certain way, in this case, to get them to vote for a certain candidate. Granted it's not a classical conspiracy as would be defined by most on ATS, by it is a conspircy by the deffenition of the word and I don't believe there're many who would argue the contrary. There're many conspiracies throughout history who's factual evidence is readily available with a few clicks on Google. Next time you have a chance perhaps you should look up the conspiracy to kill Julius Ceasar, or perhaps the mafia's control of the unions in the 40s and 50s.

The facts you ask for, Raideur, is a reasonable request. I would hope none of my fellow ATSers would blindly believe somthing just because someone posted it but you must admit than many of the things stated by fellow posters are hard to back up. In fact I'd go further and say the absence of evidence is the very reason for many people's interest in a given subject. There is quite a large number of subjects covered on this board that I, personally, choose not to lend credence too. I believe some can be explained by fairly down to earth explainations and some have developed due our ignorance on the subject, NDEs (near death experiences) for one. I'd be the first to admit that many of the claims made by those in the conspriacy community are outrageous, that some who make these statements seek personal gain of one form or another. However, these statements and people are just the usual muck you have to rake before you can reach the truth.

I think it is a sign of a good mental state to be skeptical, but you must be careful not to be overly skeptical. I'd like to refer you to my signature. A true skeptic doesn't deny everything until it is proven beyond the shadow of a doubt, rather, one should take an unbiased stance and proceed to research the subject to the best of his ability. It is through your own research that you should develop your opinion of any given subject, especially in our modern world where information is available litterally at your fingertips

I do believe that if someone posts a topic like "Bush hid WMDs" they should provide as much evidence from as many sources as possible, but that's just good posting. Many of the subjects covered here are based off of personal experiences for which there is little more evidence than an eye witness account. That is the simply the nature of the unknown. If there were countless resources of hard factual evidence proving the existance of extraterrestrial life there would be no ATS. Upon encountering a situation in which the majority of evidence stems from eyewitness accounts I find it quite usefull to read the account and then consider what was written from both ends of the spectrum. Following a simple logical deductive method I work out the possibilities for both motivations. Perhaps this is a lonely and slightly crazy person who simply desires some attention, perhaps they are ignorant of certain climactic conditions that could cause such an experience as they have recounted. On the other hand though, they may be speaking in ernest. I have never personally been abducted or even witnessed a UFO, but I can imagine how I would feel if i had been and no one would believe me.

Out right disbleieving anything you're told is neither skepticism nor somthing to be proud of. In your search for truth you must be impartial, relentless, and always honest and true to yourself. If you believe somthing to be true with all your heart then no one has the right to tell you it is otherwise unless they can actually prove it. Disbleiving somthing because you are not yet convinced is counter productive, a true skeptic will consider both sides of an argument before siding one way or the other. If you read a post on ATS that happens to intrigue you I'd suggest spending your free time researching it as I have found that even the most outrageous theory is rooted in fact. The entire history of our government is riddled with conspiracies of one form or another that are all backed up with historical evidence. Constantly trying to prove yourself to people who constantly refuse to be convinced is simply a waste of time. Raideur, rather then writting a post on how you don't believe what someone said perhaps you should start posting evidence to the contrary. You fight ingorance with facts, not a deaf ear.

Didn't I say the exact same things the posts above me are saying in my last post? (Except Shadow's) ...

If you experience it,

You'll know.

Case closed.

[edit on 26-7-2005 by Zeta_101]