The Great Seal

Originally posted by sebatwerk
HAHA!! I meant kooks. Whoopsies...

I thought so... but wasn't sure after the Hiroshima discussion in the other thread (ha ha just kidding)...

What's the problem - the symbols are well known, as is the language - 'Annuit coeptis' the task is accomplished - 'The New Order of the World'
There are 13 layers to the pyramid and13 arrows on the right hand symbol, 13 feathers, 32 and 33 follow
The All-Seeing Eye Capstone yet to crack down on the rest of the pyramid at the time - the time is now from the oncoming surveillence and control grid
What's the problem - the Columbians, offshoots of the Bavarians, declare their success
The continuance of the Hitler process presently coming to fruition
It's fully in the history of the US
Take a look back at Benjamin Franklin - now isn't he some sort of emblem of US sovreignty and freedom from the British Crown
And wasn't he a member of the Hellfire club, Sir Francis Dashwood's British aristocratic club, practising Satanists in the caves at West Wycombe topped on the hill by a rather magnificent Temple of Baal
Rather part of the British landed aristocracy. And when renovations took place in his London house in the past few years, did they not find a collection of human bones buried beneath the cellar? Where were they from?

Originally posted by dh
What's the problem - the symbols are well known, as is the language - 'Annuit coeptis' the task is accomplished - 'The New Order of the World'
There are 13 layers to the pyramid and13 arrows on the right hand symbol, 13 feathers, 32 and 33 follow
The All-Seeing Eye Capstone yet to crack down on the rest of the pyramid at the time - the time is now from the oncoming surveillence and control grid
What's the problem - the Columbians, offshoots of the Bavarians, declare their success
The continuance of the Hitler process presently coming to fruition
It's fully in the history of the US

Do you EVER step out of your home?!? Man, someone like you must be scared of EVERYTHING!

Originally posted by sebatwerk

Originally posted by dh
What's the problem - the symbols are well known, as is the language - 'Annuit coeptis' the task is accomplished - 'The New Order of the World'
There are 13 layers to the pyramid and13 arrows on the right hand symbol, 13 feathers, 32 and 33 follow
The All-Seeing Eye Capstone yet to crack down on the rest of the pyramid at the time - the time is now from the oncoming surveillence and control grid
What's the problem - the Columbians, offshoots of the Bavarians, declare their success
The continuance of the Hitler process presently coming to fruition
It's fully in the history of the US

Do you EVER step out of your home?!? Man, someone like you must be scared of EVERYTHING!

Relinquished most of my fear a long time back, when I started to read the world actually

you bozos don't have a clue about the REAL Great Seal, do you?

Look!!

Originally posted by Off_The_Street
you bozos don't have a clue about the REAL Great Seal, do you?

Well there's seals and there's seals
I can't imagine up an etymological connection, so maybe it was the chance to say Bozos that motivated you
Well done!

Originally posted by sebatwerk
Do you EVER step out of your home?!? Man, someone like you must be scared of EVERYTHING!

(not pertaining to me, but i HAVE to confess)

Everytime I hear a helicopter, I'm afraid it's for me. Everytime I hear a siren, I become paranoid. Everytime I look out a dark window, I see people. While I'm on at night, I always picture someone walking behind me killing me. And Me? Go Outside?

Funny story about me going outside first time in one and a half weeks:

"Dude, some gas pipe broke! RUN!"
"Andrew, no it didn't"
"Can't you hear it?!?!?"
"Andrew, that's the wind"
"Oh..."

I'm pathetic.

i'm not saying that the masons in this forum don't know what they're talking about.

i'm saying that IF there is a conspiracy within the masons, we obviously can't rely on masons to tell the truth about it...

That are they just aren't in the clue...

Like the Marine in the other forum saying how Briggs' wife doesn't know a clue about Marines.

Well, reading her husband's diary, obviously she learned something he doesn't know!!!

And on top of this, their is their own organizations propaganda directed at them. For the Marines, tell them they are the best and most moral, but then homosexually rape eachother and others and committ crimes against humanity. For Masons, rather different but they are also told something and it is totally possible there are those that do something the others don't know about while they are serving their 'masters'.

So believe him when he says they don't do anything bad only as he is saying he doesn't know about it.

Ignorance.... is belief!

Originally posted by southern_cross3
i'm not saying that the masons in this forum don't know what they're talking about.

i'm saying that IF there is a conspiracy within the masons, we obviously can't rely on masons to tell the truth about it...

Can you show me ONE example of a Freemason that has actually LIED about Freemasonry!? You still don't understand that neither you nor anyone else has ANY evidence of such a masonic conspiracy or anything else, right? Do you believe everything David Icke tells you? Who's the sucker here?

For the last time, Freemasons are on this forum to DENY IGNORANCE and to get people to open their eyes and realize that all this crap they believe about Freemasonry is absolutely FALSE, and there is NO EVIDENCE, NO FACTS, NO EXAMPLES of anything of the sort. Start thinking clearly, rationally and logically!

sebatwerp you need to understand that your opinion is not truth.

dont you as a free mason study the 'light'.

you then of all people as you have shown you hold yourself in the light of truth (your opinion/conviction) should realize that others have theirs.

ignorance is belief. i might believe something and you say i'm ignorant while i say you are ignorant while i believe something though i'm not. it works both ways.

so do you have a point except telling others you don't agree? why not add some content to your refutation?

Originally posted by 00PS
so do you have a point except telling others you don't agree? why not add some content to your refutation?

I have provided TONS of links, references to books and texts, and much much evidence for my claims. I reference my claims and support them with facts ALL THE TIME. Addiitionally, people can go back to my old posts and see the same thing. I've been on this forum for a long time, and there is no reason for me to post it over and over again when people SHOULD be using the search function and searching for answers to their questions to begin with. All this information, as well as the evidence to support it, is right here within the ATS Secret Societies forum.

Do you really think that all I do is refute everyone's claims without providing examples or facts for people??? Come on now, I'm not like some of the trolls we see around here...

You're definately not...(the troll comment)

But you are seriously outnumbered. I'm just saying the odds aren't so good. So without some of your mason buddies coming in to help you out then your totally screwed.

For as much conspiracy there is about the great seal that has penetrated US and Europe it just seems you'll need some proof that there is nothing illuminati or secret society about it.

Question: Why didn't they write English, why did they use latin?
Question: Why is it reserved for the Department of State?
Question: Why is it on Presidential Proclimations and Treaties and Notes?
Question: Is it very symbolic and important or just an image like the eagle?

I have no answers nor beliefs on the matter.

I do however think it interesting!

Originally posted by 00PS
But you are seriously outnumbered. I'm just saying the odds aren't so good. So without some of your mason buddies coming in to help you out then your totally screwed.

I don't agree with that. I think most intelligent people are swayed by a rational argument. Plenty of people read these threads and don't comment, so we have no idea who is being influenced or not.

Originally posted by 00PS
For as much conspiracy there is about the great seal that has penetrated US and Europe it just seems you'll need some proof that there is nothing illuminati or secret society about it.

I'd say the burden of proof isn't on Sebat to prove that there is nothing "Illuminati about it"; it is on the people that think that it is to prove that there is even such a thing as the "Illuminati".

Originally posted by 00PS
Question: Why didn't they write English, why did they use latin?

Why not? The American revolution took place during the Enlightenment, and included some brilliant and highly educated minds (John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, etc.) When people were educated at that time, study of Latin was considered part of a complete education... so nothing strange about it, IMHO.

Originally posted by 00PS
Question: Why is it reserved for the Department of State?
Question: Why is it on Presidential Proclimations and Treaties and Notes?

So what? Almost every government agency has a seal. Go read the PDF file I linked to earlier in the thread, it explains the use of the seal.

Originally posted by 00PS
Question: Is it very symbolic and important or just an image like the eagle?

Huh? The eagle is "symbolic and important" too. That's kind of the purpose of a symbol.

I find it interesting that in almost every conspiracy forum there are people making claims about some secret that the Masons have and the Masons, well usually just one, reply with an almost standardized response such as:

Can you show me ONE example of a Freemason that has actually LIED about Freemasonry

I am not pointing fingers, I am just making an observation.

I do have a question to ask Masons; when you ask us to provide evidence of a Freemason lying or providing false information or something else in this category, we aren't able to because few, if any, outsiders know what goes on inside your society. I know that that does not give us the right to accuse, but it does give us the right to wonder. And when we get a response it doesn't have anything in it to warrent secrecy...that is why we are suspect; well, at least that is why i am suspect.

Originally posted by Howard the Dolphin
I find it interesting that in almost every conspiracy forum there are people making claims about some secret that the Masons have and the Masons, well usually just one, reply with an almost standardized response such as:

Can you show me ONE example of a Freemason that has actually LIED about Freemasonry

This is because that is the one single argument that refutes all these claims that are made by conspiracy theorists. IF there was some kind of evidence to show to support the claims, I would shut up immediately. But people cannot seriously believe these things when there is NO evidence to prove it. They pretty much just believe in fantasy stories! Nothing more.

I do have a question to ask Masons; when you ask us to provide evidence of a Freemason lying or providing false information or something else in this category, we aren't able to because few, if any, outsiders know what goes on inside your society. I know that that does not give us the right to accuse, but it does give us the right to wonder. And when we get a response it doesn't have anything in it to warrent secrecy...that is why we are suspect; well, at least that is why i am suspect.

If someone claims something as being a FACT, such as "Freemasons are sworn to lie about their fraternity", then they should be able to support this, right? How can someone be 100% sure about something, without having any kind of proof or fact to show for it? They can't. I just want people to stop representing things as FACT, when they do not have the evidence to make it a fact. Why can't they say "I think the masons do..." or "I believe..."? It's misinformation at it's very worst.

I can honestly tell you that all of the Freemasons on this forum have NEVER lied about Freemasonry to anyone here. People THINK we're lying, because what we tell them does not coincide with what they believe, but we are not. We want to end all the misconceptions and lies that people have about Freemasonry. We want EVERYONE to know the truth.

Freemasons are NOWHERE near as secretive as people think. This is a MYTH that was started by non-masons, and people everywhere believe it! There is TONS of TRUE information about Freemasonry on the internet and in books. Why do people always believe the worst things? It's like they only want to believe what makes a good story, because reality is boring.


[edit on 22-6-2005 by sebatwerk]

LOL You've got to check out this link, if you believe the illuminati is bogus:

skepdic.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink">skepdic.com...

Originally posted by Toelint
LOL You've got to check out this link, if you believe the illuminati is bogus:

skepdic.com...

HAHAHAHA that is a GREAT link! PCTs (paranoid conspiracy theorists)!!

I liked this line the best (emphasis mine):

They are responsible for every evil and every unjust act that ever occurs anywhere; the fact that absolutely no evidence of their existence can be found only serves to make them stronger and more frightening

This is also very smart:

To enter the world of the PCTs (paranoid conspiracy theorists) is to enter Bedlam. It would be pointless here to examine, much less attempt to refute, the delusions of people who think... that the imagination and the thought of what is possible are better guides than the "physically manifested world"

[edit on 22-6-2005 by sebatwerk]

Originally posted by Toelint
LOL You've got to check out this link, if you believe the illuminati is bogus:

skepdic.com...

That website also has a GREAT page on Freemasonry:

skepdic.com...

It even debunks the claim that masons killed William Morgan. Not bad

Originally posted by 00PSFor as much conspiracy there is about the great seal that has penetrated US and Europe it just seems you'll need some proof that there is nothing illuminati or secret society about it.

Since no one has demonstrated that the illuminati exist, thats rather unecessary.

Question: Why didn't they write English, why did they use latin?

Because enlgish is stupid, and latin sounds cool and official like. No, seriously, thats why. Any educated person back in the old days learned to read latin.

Question: Why is it on Presidential Proclimations and Treaties and Notes?

Its the seal of the nation.

Question: Is it very symbolic and important or just an image like the eagle?

It seems to be rather symbolic. A step for each colony, a pyramid to refer to a great work, the eye of god, etc.