NEWS: GOP Chairman Walks Out of Patriot Act Meeting

Please steer this thread back on topic.. though its packed full of controversial material, its moreso about the Patriot Act and the abrubt ending of the meeting..

This thread is about the news article you posted with the title of GOP Chairman Walks Out of Patriot Act Meeting and whose text clearly says:

Rep. James Sensenbrenner, R-Wis., chairman of the panel, abruptly gaveled the meeting to an end and walked out, followed by other Republicans. Sensenbrenner declared that much of the testimony, which veered into debate over the detainees at Guantanamo Bay, was irrelevant.

Obviously the Democrats had attempted to hijack an unrelated committee to discuss an unrelated topic. I think Sensenbrenner did the right thing here.

Plus you clearly stated in a previous post that U.S. citizens were being held at Gitmo:

Originally posted by Quietsoul
How can you say that with a straight face? The very REASON the United States citizens are in Gitmo, regardless of INNOCENCE, is because of the PATRIOT ACT.

Jose Padilla is NOT in Gitmo and neither is any other U.S. citizen imprisioned there.

And as far as the rights of enemy soldiers captured on the battlefield their only rights are to be fed, sheltered, not killed, and not physically tortured. They should only be released after the war is over.

QuietSoul, I was not refering to you.

XphilesPhan, you might want to check the 3rd Geneva Convention. The United States is a party to it and has to abide by its rules.

(d) The passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples.

Is it any wonder why the U.S Attorney General considers the Geneva Conventions obsolete?

GONZALES SAYS GENEVA RESTRICTIONS ARE OBSOLETE: "The nature of the new war places a high premium on other factors, such as the ability to quickly obtain information from captured terrorists and their sponsors in order to avoid further atrocities against American civilians...In my judgment, this new paradigm renders obsolete Geneva's strict limitations on questioning of enemy prisoners and renders quaint some of its provisions."
- Alberto Gonzales, 1/25/02 (Memorandum to the President, as reported in Newsweek 5/16/04)

Gonzales Geneva Convention Obsolete

Its a sad state of affairs when the top American lawyer considers the Geneva Conventions "quaint" and "obsolete". Bastions of liberty and democracy my arse.

[edit on 11/6/05 by subz]

Jose Padilla is NOT in Gitmo and neither is any other U.S. citizen imprisioned there.

And as far as the rights of enemy soldiers captured on the battlefield their only rights are to be fed, sheltered, not killed, and not physically tortured. They should only be released after the war is over.

I stand corrected. Jose isnt in gitmo, I did a little more research. Gitmo, or S. Carolina, he is being held in the same fashion. A la Patriot Act.

www.sourcewatch.org...
Heres a good source for looking into PA abuses

Know your rights
www.checksbalances.org...





[edit on 6/11/2005 by QuietSoul]

Before we get too far down the "this is a GOP thingy" slippery slope. Let's remember that the Democrats tried to get the very same act passed in 1994-95 and the Republicans shot it down.

The problem is not one party or the other - it's both of them.

Originally posted by DJohnsto77
Obviously the Democrats had attempted to hijack an unrelated committee to discuss an unrelated topic. I think Sensenbrenner did the right thing here.

Obviously the Republicans had attempted to hijack an unrelated committee to discuss an unrelated topic.

Tempers flared when Rep. Mike Pence, R-Ind., accused Amnesty International of endangering the lives of Americans in uniform by referring to the prison at Guantanamo Bay as a "gulag." Sensenbrenner didn't allow the Amnesty representative, Chip Pitts, to respond until Nadler raised a "point of decency."

Found out some info on what exactly the meeting was for..

PATRIOT Act Hearing Thursday
Focus: National Security Letters, Extraterritorial Jurisdiction,
and Material Witnesses

What: Oversight Hearing on Law Enforcement Authorities for the War on
Terror
Who: Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security – Rep.
Howard Coble (R-N.C.), Chairman
When: 9:30 a.m., Thursday, May 26, 2005
Where: 2141 Rayburn Building
Thursday’s hearing will cover a number of law enforcement authorities for the War on
Terror.

These authorities are not subject to sunset at the end of 2005.

More

Also found a story with a little more info, not much..
seattletimes.nwsource.com...

[edit on 6/11/2005 by QuietSoul]

Before we get too far down the "this is a GOP thingy" slippery slope.

The Democrats aren't that great either, but IMHO the Republicans are notably worse on every civil liberties issue except where the Second Amendment is concerned. The Dems try to destroy the Second, the Republicans try to destroy all the others.

I'll agree though that neither party has much to offer - they are both in love with authoritarianism these days, with a few exceptions like Ron Paul.

[edit on 6/11/05 by xmotex]

Finally..

Videos
Video Mirror (Quicktime)

[edit on 6/11/2005 by QuietSoul]

I watched, when it started, is that the begining of the meeting?

Straight to the point:

If YOU (non-American) are involved in al Qaeda or in any terrorist group against American interests and American lives overseas and if you got captured by the US intelligence agents, military or US authorities, you get one way trip to the GITMO. End. Of. Discussion.

If you are an American citizen involved in al Qaeda or any terrorist group against your fellow American citizens and if you got captured by the US intelligence agents, military or US authorities, you get one way trip to a FEDERAL JAIL anywhere in the US, NOT in the GITMO.

End. Of. Discussion.

[edit on 6/11/2005 by the_oleneo]

I watched, when it started, is that the begining of the meeting?

I assume so.. I'm not to sure myself.. it looks like it started, he didnt like the tone and walked out.. and it seemed it went on for 10mins or so afterwards..

I'll look on CSPAN for a better (complete?) clip..

Try

this -- RECENT PROGRAMS >>
House Hearing on Patriot Act Reauthorization (06/10/2005)

2 hour video (Realtime)


Cant direct link

[edit on 6/11/2005 by QuietSoul]

[edit on 6/11/2005 by QuietSoul]

Originally posted by the_oleneo
Straight to the point:

If YOU (non-American) are involved in al Qaeda or in any terrorist group against American interests and American lives overseas and if you got captured by the US intelligence agents, military or US authorities, you get one way trip to the GITMO. End. Of. Discussion.

If you are an American citizen involved in al Qaeda or any terrorist group against your fellow American citizens and if you got captured by the US intelligence agents, military or US authorities, you get one way trip to a FEDERAL JAIL anywhere in the US, NOT in the GITMO.

End. Of. Discussion.

Well then if youre an American soldier/American citizen in Iraq and you get captured you'll get your head cut off.

End. Of. Discussion.


[edit on 11/6/05 by subz]

Alright, let's chill here, NOW.

Alright, I watched (from the beginning)..

It seems he let one gentlemen speak, cuts him off after his alloted time, begins to rattle off names of people that didnt show up, and begins to riducule the purpose of the meeting..

The Patriot Act definition of a terrorist could be applied to almost anyone who disagrees with the federal government.
Sounds familiar?

The rights of the individuals in the US of American supercede the will of the state. Now the government always had a one - branch tyrannies to force the will of the state on the individual to protect the government from its citizens, in case of wrong imprisoned, injury or death.

All this are things we know but don’t argued about it, but the patriot act made all this not longer hidden facts but its making into law.

The patriot act was in appearances for the good of the country or that is what the government told us with the propaganda.

But what it does is granting one branch of the government the powers of a police state.

People has come forward, law abiding citizens, they have complains of the tyranny of this new branch of government.

But we have our President publicly telling the house to ignore the complains because the patriot act is for the good of the nation.

Now, the truth is that is not good for the citizens of our nation, but for the once right of the individuals to hold the government responsible for its mistakes against the American citizens.

In other words if the patriot act becomes permanent we the citizens of this great country will become the victims of the new emerging raw police state and the power of a one branch tyranny.

Open you eyes people we have been sold.

This will benefit any political party that comes into power.




[edit on 11-6-2005 by marg6043]

I've watched the whole video and I'm astonished at the tone of the meeting..

Everytime someone tries to make a point, they're smacked down by 'rules' that werent made clear to any of the people attending before the meeting.

Utterly sick.

I gotta say, I was somewhat bias when I first read this article.. after viewing the video, im Livid.

The real problem is that our representatives are to busy quarreling
and vying for political power than taking care of the needs and concerns of its citizens. If our representatives do not quit acting like kids and come together and work together on our problems instead of trying to make the other party look bad we will be in very serious trouble.

The real problem is that our representatives are to busy quarreling
and vying for political power than taking care of the needs and concerns of its citizens. If our representatives do not quit acting like kids and come together and work together on our problems instead of trying to make the other party look bad we will be in very serious trouble.

Did you watch the video on Cspan.com? That is exactly what they were trying to do. They were addressing all the concerns and effects the PA has had on us as a nation, and were literally snubbed.