I dont think smoking is as bad as they say

In the interest of space I have not reqouted Boondock's last comment.

Boondock my friend, i fear it isi you who have missed my point. This is the last time I shall attempt to explain it to you. The way your clothing smells is hardly an excuse to allow further government intervention into our lives. Many of us smokers actually enjoy smoking, we look foward to doing it after a long day of work or a big meal. In such cases our right to smoke is protected by our right to an inividual "persuit of happiness". To deny someone an "inalienable right" is unconstitutional.

Perhaps rap music and women's rights were a poor example, so let me give you another to ponder. The majority of Americans infected with HIV and AIDS are homosexual. AIDS and HIV will kill you. Should we then outlaw homosexual realtions because there is a possibilty one of them might give you AIDS? (before you say anything, I wasn't implying you are gay, there are many ways to contract the virus)

Quick fix for both dealing with rap music and smoking (among other intolerables) in public. If you walk in somewhere and someone is blaring their music that you can't stand, or has a cloud of smoke wrapped around them and you don't want to bother with it, turn around and walk out. If you go somewhere and start blaring your music or you light up and someone asks you to turn it off or put it out, then do so or walk out.

If I'm at a restaurant, having a smoke, and someone comes in, sits right behind me, and then starts complaining about my smoke, why should I put it out? They didn't have to sit there behind me, they didn't have to come to the restaurant in the first place. If I went in there after them, that's different; I'm interrupting their dinner and imposing my smoke on them. And if there's no where else to sit, I'll go elsewhere. No biggie; there's plenty of other restaurants on the map.

I've lived in towns where they've banned public smoking; I DO NOT go anywhere. No bars, no restaurants, nothing unless I've got a good reason to go, and general food or entertainment isn't good enough. Even then I either step outside whenever I need a smoke or I make it as short of a stay as possible. The bar I used to work at lost a lot of business for the same reason, and we ended up having to let people smoke inside just so we'd stay afloat.

That's my main kick; ban it wherever else, but a bar? Who goes to a bar for their health?

Originally posted by Shadowflux
In the interest of space I have not reqouted Boondock's last comment.

Boondock my friend, i fear it isi you who have missed my point. This is the last time I shall attempt to explain it to you. The way your clothing smells is hardly an excuse to allow further government intervention into our lives. Many of us smokers actually enjoy smoking, we look foward to doing it after a long day of work or a big meal. In such cases our right to smoke is protected by our right to an inividual "persuit of happiness". To deny someone an "inalienable right" is unconstitutional.

Perhaps rap music and women's rights were a poor example, so let me give you another to ponder. The majority of Americans infected with HIV and AIDS are homosexual. AIDS and HIV will kill you. Should we then outlaw homosexual realtions because there is a possibilty one of them might give you AIDS? (before you say anything, I wasn't implying you are gay, there are many ways to contract the virus)

i guess i missed the point then. i still don't see the comparison with the aids and the homosexuals.
since this is going nowhere all i can simply say is deal with it and i will do the same. if things keep going the way they are, i will get what i want pretty soon and there will be no more smoking in the public places i go. i can handle that.

sorry i don't see your point but i don't. o well. happy smoking. hope it dosen't kill you

My main point was that smoking is not as bad as they make out , I'm a smoker who's smoked 30 a day for the last 40 years. Ive just had a medical that says I'm still fit , the Doc could not understand how i passed the lung function test with ease. The new adverts on TV say smoking makes you impotent , i can say thats rubbish, they also say you cant get an erection, rubbish again.The only thing i think non smokers are bothered about is that they stink of cigs after a night out, they are a bunch of moaners that make your life a drag , whether you smoked or not. Non smokers have believed that they are a better person for not doing it, I'm afraid your just another group of whining people who spoil life by barring anything that you don't agree with.

Originally posted by Bulldog 52
My main point was that smoking is not as bad as they make out , I'm a smoker who's smoked 30 a day for the last 40 years. Ive just had a medical that says I'm still fit , the Doc could not understand how i passed the lung function test with ease. The new adverts on TV say smoking makes you impotent , i can say thats rubbish, they also say you cant get an erection, rubbish again.The only thing i think non smokers are bothered about is that they stink of cigs after a night out, they are a bunch of moaners that make your life a drag , whether you smoked or not. Non smokers have believed that they are a better person for not doing it, I'm afraid your just another group of whining people who spoil life by barring anything that you don't agree with.

why do you guys keep saying that non smokers think they are better? i don't think that is the case.
however i think you're right. i don't think that smoking is AS BAD as they say. i do think it is bad though. it's like with absolutely anything else. they say it makes you impotent, well i'm sure it dosen't say that if you smoke you will be impotent. i'm also sure that there are some people that so become impotent from it. everyones genetics are different. you smoke over a pack a day your whole life and you may never get cancer but i may get cancer after smoking the same amount. everyone is different. i don't think it's right to say that non smokers barr anything they don't agree with. i can't speak for everyone but i don't care if cigs are sold, smoke, eaten, or whatever else. i also don't care if every single person that smokes gets lung cancer. they are the ones that picked up the cigg. i guess i am selfish because what i do care about is having to smell that crap when i am in restaurants. i would go so far as to say that is my only problem with smoking. nigh clubs, parks, bars, smoke up. i don't like having to smell that stuff permiating through the air when i eat. now seeing what i just said, would you as a smoker say ok thats cool. i won't smoke in a restaurant but i'm going to smoke everywhere else? or is there no compromise with you at all? you want to smoke absolutely everywhere no matter what.

maybe it would be better if the ads or whatever simply said smoking is not good for you. i do think it's made to be worse than it is but it is bad for you. i think that has been proven.

If Tobacco companies want to make more money, invent tobacco that doesn't make people smell bad then we wont have to have this argument with non smokers.

MCory, you've taken the first step. You keep on going, my man.

Originally posted by Boondock78
why do you guys keep saying that non smokers think they are better? i don't think that is the case.

It's like any other quasi-political debate. Probably the majority of non-smokers really couldn't care less, but they're also less vocal so they don't stand out as much. The ones that get noticed are the ones that would put any evangelist to shame, constantly forcing the facts of smoking's adverse affects down a smoker's throat whether that person wants to hear or not.

My personal favorites are the ex-smokers. I've met a few exceptions, but for the most part their the most vehement in their attempts to get smokers to quit. It almost seems like jealousy, or their doing it just to make themselves look high and mighty, "holier than thou" and whatnot.

i guess i am selfish because what i do care about is having to smell that crap when i am in restaurants. i would go so far as to say that is my only problem with smoking. nigh clubs, parks, bars, smoke up. i don't like having to smell that stuff permiating through the air when i eat. now seeing what i just said, would you as a smoker say ok thats cool. i won't smoke in a restaurant but i'm going to smoke everywhere else? or is there no compromise with you at all? you want to smoke absolutely everywhere no matter what.

I can't speak for all smokers, but as I've stated above I have no problems with not smoking in certain facilities (restaurants, hospitals, etc.) Night clubs, bars, casinos, whatever I feel it should be up to the owner if they want to allow smoking.

Originally posted by Off_The_Street
MCory, you've taken the first step. You keep on going, my man.

Not to burst your bubble, but I have no intentions of quitting. At least not anytime soon. I've tried to quit in the past and determined that I just didn't want to quit bad enough. I still don't, and I've learned to be upfront with myself about that. I found out that unless you really want to, you'll never quit no matter how many pills, patches, or pieces of gum you use. Trying to force yourself to quit when you don't really want to is a waste of time and energy.

For myself at least, my addiction is mainly psychological. I'm not denying there's a physical addiction there, but it's rather small in comparison. For me it's more of a habit than an addiction, and it's one that I enjoy.

I don't think anyone will ever claim that smoking is good for you. And I think that it is as bad as "they" say, at least percentage-wise. Of course it's different for each person, but the odds that it'll get you are pretty high. But I don't think it's something that needs to be constantly shoved in every smoker's face either. We know the risks we're taking, we know most likely we won't come out on top of it, but we do it anyways. And it's one thing for a friend or relative to try and convince you to quit--they care, it's obvious they're going to try and make sure you're healthy--but someone who doesn't know you should be able to let it go and just leave you alone about it. My opinion at least.

I think the fundamental goof in the anti-smoking logic has yet to be rectified.

Just because 90% of people who get lung cancer smoked cigarettes, doesn't mean the cigarettes are solely to blame. Currently, something like 1/3 of Americans develop cancer. 100% of the them breathe air, and drink water, and smile on Fridays. Do those behaviors also indicate an increased risk of cancer?

No. It's a correlary, but it's not proof.

Now, that being said, the air and the water will kill you too, so all non-smokers concerned about their health should immediately retreat to the nearest oxygen tent and seal themselves off from the world. We live in a dangerously polluted environment. Understanding that is the first step in coming to terms with mortality.

What i don't understand with the non smokers is how it kills you second hand. Ive been smoking 40 years now and if its not killed me , how does a whiff of smoke kill so many? Perhaps its not proven and the anti smokers are just quoting meaningless surveys.

It's not rocket science......YES, smoking is bad for bodily functioning!
Duh! However, smokers should not be treated like lepers. It's a physiological disorder not a psychotic disorder, and most smokers are more than willing to smoke away from others and in designated areas.
The most important thing to remember here is that you never know where the most important information you will ever obtain might come from...and many times it's from the afflicted. So don't point fingers until you have listened, and even if someone is on their way out of this world, it could be relevant to you to hear the softly spoken words they have to say.

What has been the experience of making it illegal to smoke in bars in New York and Ireland??
Has it turned out positive?

That law came in where I live about 6 months ago. Its revolutionised pubs and bars. We visited a pub a few months after the law and was amazed at how plesant they were now, you can have a drink, and some food, and NO SMOKE its wonderful. There have been letters in the newspapers about the plesant change.

It's sure as heck a factor that would make me go out there more frequently.

It seems that doom and gloom fears proported by the alcohol and tobacco industry havn't eventuated. There are no reports of pubs going to the wall, or even losing much money.





[edit on 29-7-2005 by Netchicken]

Me Ive listened to the nonsense that smoking is the biggest killer on the planet and Ive made my mind up, its not. Its just become another reason to blame ever thing on smoking because its the easy way out for the medics.

Bulldog, how old are you? Ten? Or is that just your IQ?

Buldogs are not noted for their ability to intergrate and systhisise new information. Thats why they are described as "stubbon as a bulldog".

Never mind, such attitudes will die with their holders

The Stones sang "Time .. is on my side .. yes it is..." and so it is in this debate, smoking is a dying art in many ways, just follow it historically to see.

Originally posted by Strianissa
Bulldog, how old are you? Ten? Or is that just your IQ?

No im 53 next birthday , i started smoking at 13 so its 40 years of smoking and still not dead .

Keep the insults.

Have some respect for the decisions of others, no matter how foolish they appear.

Smoking has become the scapegoat for a number of super-polluting industries, and it takes the flak from people who should do a little research, and find out what's really causing so many incidents of cancer.

I also think we have a lot of work to do to understand cancer. It's really nothing more than life unbound, which has spectacular possibilities if only we could better control it.

NetChicken
Unfortunately, I think you're right. I haven't been to a bar since the bans went into effect in various places, but I've heard that business is even rising in some places, despite predictions from the smoking crowd. This disappoints me, because I expected a little more solidarity from smokers.

I see them standing outside the bar by my house, clustered around the dumpster out back, like a bunch of freakin' bums. They still patronize the establishment, which frustrates me to no end. Is it so much to ask that smokers drink at home until the bars change their tune?

I think private establishments should be able to set their own rules when it comes to smoking, dress code, etc.. I also think private individuals should excercise their influence by only patronizing establishments that operate in a way agreeable to the individual's principles.

Don't buy sweatshop clothes if you don't agree with child labor. Don't frequent non-smoking bars if you support an individual's right to smoke in public places. Don't watch bad television, don't buy poorly made products made by irresponsible companies.

It's so easy with a measure of self-control. Sadly, modern societies across the globe (championed by America) are giving in to instant gratification and opulence, to the detriment of discipline and responsibility.

The new laws on smoking stop me going to any public place and smoking so i wont be spending any money there. Can the pubs and cinemas make a profit without the smokers?

The answer Bulldog?

Yes, absolutly.
Where i live smokers make up under 24% of the population, there a smoker is really in the minority. Remove the smokers, and as wyrd said, non smokers come back.

Smokers and smoking is on the way out, we are probably the last generation to have this discussion of "smokers rights".

Kids have been educated against smoking at school, and although they still take up smoking its much less than historically.

The smoking war has been won, what we see now is just the mopping up exercise.

Don't worry about the tobacco companies however, they are busy selling to the 3rd world.

Originally posted by Bulldog 52
The new laws on smoking stop me going to any public place and smoking so i wont be spending any money there. Can the pubs and cinemas make a profit without the smokers?

Mopping up, you are overconfident NetChicken.

Mark my words, smokers will not go gently.

I think a good change might be in the works, perhaps Americans will rediscover the wonderful ritual history of tobacco use. When cigarettes cost $400/pack, we'll have to get back to occasionaly smoking for ritual purposes. That $20 cigarette will be worth it after sex and in the morning with a fine fresh-roasted espresso, but it won't be practical to puff all day like a chimney.

We'll create little smokers clubs, and talk about the 'Burning Times' when millions of Westerners puffed pack after pack without a care in the world. I can tell my kids about how I used to get cartons of Mustang 100's for under 10 bucks. It'll be great.

Smoking will not go away, but I think it's becoming less a habitual American pastime, and more of a defiant decision. This is for the best I'm sure.