Rosicurians

The basic story behind the rosicurians is that a prelate from germany published this book, which pretended to be the memoirs of a different doode from a long time ago. He traveled thru europe, learning many things. Traveled to the east, picked up mystical knowledge in syria and egypt and all sorts of other places, growing very powerful. Eventually, he returned to europe, and initiated 4 apprentices into his circle, and they completed something like an office/repository of this knowledge. He set it up so that two would go out into the world, learning things, and then informing him about it, while two would remain with him. Then the two from abroad would returned, and switch places with the other too. When the founder, whose last name is Rosenkreutz or somesuch, dies, the four continue the tradition. He gave them a set of instructions, enumerated in the text, and told them to remain secret for some set of many years, hundreds or some such.

Then, around the time that that limit was up, some of the initiates were in the office/temple/repository, and stumbled thru a faulty wall. Lo and behold was a mystical set up, that contained ever more secret information, apparently from Rosenkreutz himself, stuff that was to help them teach the rest of the world their knowledge by expanding beyond their original numbers.

From this, the Rosicurians formed. This, apparently, is why there is no 'the' rosicurians, but rather a few groups and traditions that make the claim of originality, because there never was such a group, and it was just the story made up by this german monk.

One masonic writer notes that the monk, who himself had travelled thru europe, seeking knowledge, had become disappointed with the declining morality of the day, and created this text as a sort of allegory, in the hopes that it would inspire men to be more virtuous and charitable.

That is the story as far as I am familiar with it. Any rosicurians here that can elaborate? Also, why 'rosicurians', why not 'rosenkruetzers' or some such?

Sorry for the short post, but here is some more background information about the Rosicrucians.

The main Rosicrucian texts, The Chemical Wedding of Christian Rosenkreutz, Fama Fraternitatis, Confessio Fraternitatis can be found here. www.sacred-texts.com...

The modern Rosicrucian society website (AMORC) is here www.rosicrucian.org...

And I might as well mention that some people in the occult community have a problem with AMORC. Basically they think they are more about selling lessons than anything else. I'm undecided on this point.

Wow, this is great. Is this where sanitized Rosy Cross material is to be posted?

Seems a little silly to believe the origin story, don't you think, Nygdan?

A man named Rosenkreutz? And where did he originate all this knowledge, and why was the wall faulty? How did multiple initiates discover at the same time (ie. preventing one from keeping the biggest secrets from others, but still letting them see it?)

I buy this like I buy the Illuminati starting in 1776. Some things just have deeper roots. This is one.

Peace Cug

Originally posted by Cug
And I might as well mention that some people in the occult community have a problem with AMORC. Basically they think they are more about selling lessons than anything else. I'm undecided on this point.

Right.



Here's some info I've posted in some other threads on this subject.

A.M.O.R.C.

"In this day and age, how can the students of the school of Sodom doubt the Imperator of their sacred order or of their “Holy Rituals” ? The one who is going to fall does not see the gap. The ritual of the first tenebrous initiation that the disciple Beelzebub received in the temple is the same first ritual that the students of A.M.O.R.C. perform today in their room in order to receive their first degree. Thus, in the same way that the student of the first degree from “Sodom” remains enslaved by the Guardian of the Threshold after the rite, as well Beelzebub remained enslaved by the Guardian of the Threshold. This is how he started his career as a demon..." - The Revolution of Beelzebub

It is said that any school here in the Physical Plane that claims to be the original Rosicrucian Order, is lying:

A.M.O.R.C. School of California



The likes of Max Heindel and Rudolph Steiner are not amongst said liars, as they only claimed that their Rosicrucian Schools follow the Rosicrucian teachings, but are not necessarily The Rosicrucian Order itself; as the AMORC and a couple of others claim.

Though it is also said that in his day, Arnold Krumm-Heller's F.R.A. was actually a physical manifestation of the Ancient Rosicrucian Fraternity.


More interesting info:

From: "Occult Medicine and Practical Magic"

Presently, in the "Avitchi" (Hell) of the Black Moon, there exist millions of human beings who are paying terrible Karmas. The mind of the Magician becomes horrified when contemplating Lucifer (who is submerged within ardent fire and sulphur).

The mind of the Magician becomes terrified when contemplating the famous Inquisitors from the Middle Ages, who are suffering in the fire which they made others once endure, and who are exhaling the same painful woes which they once made others exhale.

The soul of the Magician shakes with horror when contemplating the great tyrants of "war" who suffer their terrible Karmas in the Black Moon.

There we see Hitler and Mussolini suffering the martyrdom of the fire which they unleashed over defenseless cities.

There we see Abbadon, the angel of the Abyss, who suffers in the chains and bonds with which he martyrized others.

There we see Mariela, the great female Magician, embraced in the fire of her own evilness.

There we see Jahveh and Caiaphas (the supreme priest), both receiving the same torture of the cross on which they condemned the Master (Christ).

There we see the "Imperator," founder of the A.M.O.R.C. School of California, who is seized by the black magical "cord" or "rope" with which he and his followers bind their naive disciples. - Samael Aun Weor, Occult Medicine and Practical Magic

Though I question the accuracy of the info given; here are some links that should have at least some relevant info:

www.levity.com...

www.americanreligion.org...



And can anyone add-on, with some info about the mysterious "Book M" ?


John Heydon's "The Glory of the Rosie Cross" looks interesting.



And concerning the Rosicrucian Manifestos.

Even though I haven't read them yet; just by briefly going over them, the following three sets all seem to be different...


www.levity.com...

Fama Fraternitatis

Confessio Fraternitatis

The Chymical Wedding



www.crcsite.org...

Fama Fraternitatis

Confessio Fraternitatis

The Chymical Wedding of Christian Rosenkreutz



www.sacred-texts.com...

The Chemical Wedding of Christian Rosenkreutz

Fama Fraternitatis

Confessio Fraternitatis



...which is the most reliable?



Found something else of interest: "Fame and Confession of the Fraternity of of the Rosy Cross" - Philalethes, Eugenius



Thanks in advance for any possible help regarding this.




PEACE

Originally posted by akilles
Seems a little silly to believe the origin story, don't you think, Nygdan?

Agreed. It sounds quite preposterous, especially the full story, with the multi-sided secret chamber and everything.

And where did he originate all this knowledge

'In his travails' is the answer I suppose. Apparently the idea of a wandering 'magician' who gains knoweldge from all sorts of different sources as he can manage to find them (or they find him??) is a bit of an 'archetype'. The idea that he learned them 'from the mystical east' is a bit of that too. The idea lives today, what with 'kabbala' being popular and eastern mysticism being popular. Or even Deepak Chopra. If he was some westerner talking about 'gods in an orgasm', people'd think he's simply a pervert. But because he's an 'easterner' its mysterious and esoteric. People want the packaging, not the content.

and why was the wall faulty?

The story, which I almost certainy presented poorly here, seems to make it out to be a sort of prophecy fufilment. I think that two of the initiates 'just happened' to be working on something at that spot and noticed that the wall was either literally a facade or that it wasn't held perfectly together and apparently that was enough to convince them to knock it down.

How did multiple initiates discover at the same time (ie. preventing one from keeping the biggest secrets from others, but still letting them see it?)

The wall and secret room? The story makes it out that the two who's turn it was to remain in the tower/office were working on the renovations or whatever together.
The masonic source I read the story in notes that its very similar to the philosopher Bacon's allegory about the "House of Solomon'; a place where knowledge is kept and where an organization sends a set number of members out into the world to find out all sorts of knowledge and bring it back (where others work it up and expand upon it). So the implication there is that the author was familiar with Bacon's 'House of Solomon'.

Originally posted by Cug
And I might as well mention that some people in the occult community have a problem with AMORC. Basically they think they are more about selling lessons than anything else. I'm undecided on this point.

I was a member of AMORC for several years. I can assure you that their primary function is to generate money for AMORC. All of the information you get from the "monographs" are available in a multitude of books for a lot less money.

Primary USE of money would be more pertinent than just the fact that they attempt to milk the more weak-minded members.

WHY do they raise money, and pretend to sell mystical secrets, knowing full well what it is they keep from their members.

Any one?

Originally posted by akilles
Primary USE of money would be more pertinent than just the fact that they attempt to milk the more weak-minded members.

WHY do they raise money, and pretend to sell mystical secrets, knowing full well what it is they keep from their members.

Any one?

It's a business. AMORC does not have any real "secrets" that it keeps from their members. It's a business that enriches its "Imperator" and the board members, plain and simple.

Any business that uses the methods known to AMORC have more to gain than merely taking a few dollars from the pockets of the unsuspecting.

They know how people think, they study what induces doubt in people, what inspires confidence, what is a secret that makes people feel special, and how do you go about telling a 'secret' in a manner befitting its 'grandeur'?

Surely the story of Rosenkreutz is a LITTLE more significant than just the origin of some ancient pyramid-scheme way of making money.

It is symbolism, the present day Rosy Cross serves as a distractor of the purpose of the Rosy Cross of old, to make you think thats all it ever was.

No such thing as secrets. Things aren't kept secret because they are dark. Honest.

OK< I take that back.

I can see many parallels to anthroposophy.
(Mod was telling me I can´t post just one sentence)
so, another
I´m german, so I know the books in original speech.
Steiner himself said that.
www.neue-rosenkreuzer.de...

[edit on 14-8-2007 by anti72]

Nygdan, as a young girl i used to see ads in magazines and such from the Rosicrusians wanting people to send in money and i remember they had an ad saying "Find out what the end of the world will be. ITs NOT what you think"

Now that little blurb there has kept me intrigued for years and years. Would you happen to know the answer to this?
I would appreciate it if there is a link or something or just an explanation would help me.

Thanks ~dg

hm, I dont know these ads you´ve seen. but I have not the impression, that these people are like scientology ,you know.
I see them in the classical tradition of spiritual enlightenment.

Sorry, i didnt mean they were trying to raise money for themselves with donations. The ad was for a book that they published and it (the ad) claimed that they knew what would cause the "real" end of the world.
It wasnt Scientology, it was the Rosicrusians.

Originally posted by dgtempe
Nygdan, as a young girl i used to see ads in magazines and such from the Rosicrusians wanting people to send in money and i remember they had an ad saying "Find out what the end of the world will be. ITs NOT what you think"

Basically the "end of the world" is not talking about destruction of the earth, but rather the end of one thing and the birth of something new.


BTW some interesting things about AMORC

List of ads members can put into their local papers
www.rosicrucian.org...

How To Talk About The Order (pdf)
www.rosicrucian.org...

Cug,
Thank you for the explanation- i thought it would be something horrifically catastrophic, something different than we've ever heard of before.

According to Jordan Maxwell the end of the world should have read- END OF THE AGe- in the bible and did until someone changed it so that people couldn't figure it out. Today we live in the age of Pisces and soon we will be living in the age of Aquriaus. Its interesting that every 2,156 years a new age begins. The world never ends we just get a new age. Some believe that the influence of the coming of a new age can be felt 500 to 800 years before it actually arives.



The sign of Pisces is a sign of sacrifice, charity, mercy, compassion and pardon.


The sign of Aquarius is said to be an age characterized by technical progress, by spectacular inventions. Obviously we have a vast array of unbalievable technolgy today.

Originally posted by anti72
I can see many parallels to anthroposophy.

Indeed.

All the fights and errors of the Theosophical Society were the cause of the trauma of Krishnamurti. The Krishnamurti case is very important.

Dr. Steiner knew the Christic Mysteries. This is why he did not allow himself to be confused. Steiner was Gnostic.

Steiner did not accept that Krishnamurti was the reincarnation of Jesus Christ.

Many followed Steiner and many others Lady Besant.

The clairvoyant Steiner had a vast intellectual culture; this is why he did not fall into that mistake. Steiner was a true Rosicrucian Gnostic.

I hope in my posting above from two years ago I wasn't giving the impression that AMORC is like Scientology.. it isn't. It's not a cult. What AMORC does is mix in the traditional Rosicrucian philosophy with a bunch of New Age stuff and sell it to the members in the form of monographs that come in the mail.

There is no great secret that AMORC holds; anything in those monographs can be found in books in your library for free, or for low cost off of Amazon.com. There have been some dubious decisions and some shady financial things done by the previous Imperator and the Board; however, it seems like lately they have cleaned up a lot of it. Still, your money could be better spent elsewhere, IMHO.

Originally posted by Tamahu

Originally posted by anti72
I can see many parallels to anthroposophy.

Indeed.

well, steiner is basically a well educated man, (he made his doctor degrees in philosophy), who ,after his scientific work, got stuck( like many at that time) into Nietzsche and went quite´agnostic´.
then he turned and got interested into the english theosophical movement, but realized after a time as the leader of the german´lodge´, that this movement got more and more unrealistic. when the Krisnamurti announcement happend , he had to leave.
he then founded the theosophic movement in germany, quite similar, but based on own, self-experienced (´gnostic´), christian experience.
that became later the anthroposophic movement.by the way, he was never an ´elected´leader or something for the a.m., he always was a kind of adviser.


but its quite alive, there are many people who think his political work is a good thing right now, based on direct democracy.

thinkin´- the- capitalism -to- its -end´
GREAT!!

threefolding .org.


[edit on 16-8-2007 by anti72]

[edit on 16-8-2007 by anti72]

[edit on 16-8-2007 by anti72]