Proud To Be Gay, Ashamed To Be Straight

Originally posted by Yngwie

The bible also preaches that you may kill people who work on the sabbath, own slaves, kill adulterers and much more. You are choosing and picking from this reference just as him.

No it doesn't, you ignorant fruitcake.

I agree that gays should have the same rights as heterosexuals, but PC has gone too far. Although it irks me that gays cannot get married or are frowned upon, it also irks me that if one says "gay" as some deregotary word in a sentence that DOES NOT relate to homosexuals we are codemned racist or bigots. So only gays can use the word "gay" in a harsh way?

The whole point is that you're not supposed to use any word in a harsh way against gay people just because they are gay.

Mind you there are many words that are used in derogatory slang that use reference to the male and female gentalia. I suppose only males can use those words, and vice versa with females. People tend to forget that when used in a way we have NO intent to degrade homosexuals.

Do you really not understand the difference or are you just pretending here?
Your entire point seems a little "off" what exactly are you saying?
What should be allowed/normal that is not allowed/normal today in this world?

Caus' they know how to have fun! Actually, I've never been to a gay parade, so I really have no idea.

Anyways, what my comment on this was that I once tried to make a WSU (white student union) to offset the BSU.

Yeah that didn't work out too well, noone wanted to join.

Originally posted by cownosecat
Yeah that didn't work out too well, noone wanted to join.

I'm surprised you weren't suspended or expelled for being a racist!

Originally posted by Jakko

Originally posted by Yngwie

The bible also preaches that you may kill people who work on the sabbath, own slaves, kill adulterers and much more. You are choosing and picking from this reference just as him.

No it doesn't, you ignorant fruitcake.

Ah, somehow I don't think you made your point that the Bible teaches tolerance.

I know... it was a really really stupid idea! Allthough they definitly wouldn't expel me for something like racism.

In my opinion gays are dirty, sinful.........................I could go on but Id be banned. But hey, Free Speech!

Originally posted by Atomix
In my opinion gays are dirty, sinful.........................I could go on but Id be banned. But hey, Free Speech!

Which is all very well - but how about actually giving reasons for your opinions?

You won't be banned for giving an opinion; it's possible to do so without being antagonistic and/or bigoted...

Originally posted by RANT

Ah, somehow I don't think you made your point that the Bible teaches tolerance.

I wasn't trying to make the point that the bible teaches tolerance, I was making the point that the kind of comments made by the poster I was replying to are ignorant as hell.

As for you sending me two warnings for the exact same post (this happened before) if you can not control your mouse and how many time you click your little "warn" button, you shouldn't be moderating these forums.

[edit on 16-6-2005 by Jakko]

Originally posted by Jakko

Originally posted by RANT

Ah, somehow I don't think you made your point that the Bible teaches tolerance.

I wasn't trying to make the point that the bible teaches tolerance, I was making the point that the kind of comments made by the poster I was replying to are ignorant as hell.

As for you sending me two warnings for the exact same post (this happened before) if you can not control your mouse and how many time you click your little "warn" button, you shouldn't be moderating these forums.

Maybe you shouldn't be calling yourself a Christian or other people ignorant as hell when they're spot on correct either.

Let's just do adultery shall we and see if you'd like to continue with the rest, because nothing pisses me off more than mouthy little trolls calling people ignorant except maybe "Christians" making me READ THE BIBLE TO THEM!

Deu 22: 20-24

Deu 22:20 But if this thing be true, [and the tokens of] virginity be not found for the damsel:


Deu 22:21 Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.


Deu 22:22 If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, [both] the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel.


Deu 22:23 If a damsel [that is] a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her;


Deu 22:24 Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, [being] in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.

The point of the poster you slammed was the OT is full of KILL, KILL, BEAT YOUR SLAVES stuff like the poster he was responding to quoted as a reason to hate gays. I believe he was making the point that Christianity changed alot of that, reduced the "letter of the law" and we're more tolerant now so picking and choosing one part of the OT to bash gays is as stupid as saying all good Christians should stone adulterers.

If you don't know that, then guess who's ignorant here?

Originally posted by RANT

Maybe you shouldn't be calling yourself a Christian or other people ignorant as hell when they're spot on correct either.

The bible also preaches that you may kill people who work on the sabbath, own slaves, kill adulterers and much more. You are choosing and picking from this reference just as him.

If you think that is correct, you have even more twisted idea of christianity than I feared.

Let's just do adultery shall we and see if you'd like to continue with the rest, because nothing pisses me off more than mouthy little trolls calling people ignorant except maybe "Christians" making me READ THE BIBLE TO THEM!

I expected you not to be this freaking ignorant as all the other christianity bashers, but here we go...

First of all let's talk about the book you are conveniently (ab)using here.
The book of Deuteronomy was a second set of laws, given to the Israelites before they were about to settle down in Kanaan.
When they lived by these rules they could expect Gods grace, and when not they would face many disasters.

The rules regarding adultery are VERY harsh and seem to contradict the (even more important?) message of loving sinners while hating the sin, and not killing or hurting others.
Now let's pretend here that;

1. We stop looking at Deuteronomy in context and take it as a set of rules for everyone everywhere, which it is not.
2. We stop looking at all other parts of the bible that tell us not to kill and to love even those that hurt us.
3. We stop making sense alltogether.

Even then, the quote:

The bible also preaches that you may kill people who work on the sabbath, own slaves, kill adulterers and much more. You are choosing and picking from this reference just as him.

is utterly and extremely ignorant, because this is NOT what the book Deuteronomy says, and if you agree with this quote it makes you the same.

It would be so cool if all those christianity bashers would just think for one freaking second before spouting their unnuanced crap on these boards.
And the same goes fore you RANT, calling me a troll.
What's next?

[edit on 16-6-2005 by Jakko]

You just said everything I said.

This was the point of the poster you called an ignorant fruitcake.

"You are choosing and picking from this reference just as him. "

You don't do subtle do you Jakko?

Originally posted by RANT
"You are choosing and picking from this reference just as him. "

You don't do subtle do you Jakko?

Nice try, but what he said was way beyond choosing and picking rant, it was pure and utter ignorance and lies.
There is nothing subtle about what he, or you for that matter, said, and in your earlyer post you seem to defend the line you are now bringing back to just "choosing and picking".

What's your stand?

Though Jakko and I don't always see eye-to-eye, and though I may not have the passion (which is not a bad thing for the passionate) that Jakko has for this issue, I 100% support that it gets extremely irritating to have biblically-ignorant people make statements that are accusing toward the Bible. Some times it almost makes you want to lose your cool. This isn't intolerance, as has been alleged against Jakko, but sheer irritation at having to repeatedly try to correct those who choose to neither give a care about the importance of the Biblical record to others, nor even attempt to understand the application of the scriptures for those of us who do care.

The bible does not tell us to go out and murder homosexuals, nor does it teach us to treat any other child of God with intolerance. If you'll note, it is the false accusation of the above ignorance-driven statement that seems to make those of us who try to be loving and Christ-like - really pissed off - not lifestyles.

Originally posted by Jakko
What's your stand?

Already posted, and before you said it too.

Originally posted by RANT
The point of the poster you slammed was the OT is full of KILL, KILL, BEAT YOUR SLAVES stuff like the poster he was responding to quoted as a reason to hate gays. I believe he was making the point that Christianity changed alot of that, reduced the "letter of the law" and we're more tolerant now so picking and choosing one part of the OT to bash gays is as stupid as saying all good Christians should stone adulterers.

That's not bashing Christianity. It's saying don't take the OT out of context from the NT as others were doing with OT views on homosexuality.

You I can understand not getting that. Valhall? :shk:

We're all saying the same thing!!! Some of just aren't calling people ignorant fruitcakes to do so.

GRRRRRRRR
Read Ingwie's post again RANT, he was not saying the same thing at all.
Anyways, regardless of everything and anything, Valhall said it correctly and I do sometimes get hysterical when I see such posts about christianity and calling him a fruitcake was wrong and I take it back.


(edit: didn't spell "Valhall" correctly, sorry Val ;+)

[edit on 16-6-2005 by Jakko]

Originally posted by Jakko
GRRRRRRRR
Read Ingwie's post again RANT, he was not saying the same thing at all.

Well, that's how I took it and what I was saying anyway.

Anyways, regardless of everything and anything, valhal said it correctly and I do sometimes get hysterical when I see such posts about christianity and calling him a fruitcake was wrong and I take it back.

We all react to something.

[edit on 16-6-2005 by RANT]

This is from this post www.abovetopsecret.com...

however I thought it seemed applicable. The Bible is not a valid argument worthy of attention in the homosexduality question.

This post is for BadMojo. While I understand and respect your particular beliefs, I must disagree with your method for arguing your point. God, in fact, does create homosexuality. It appears in other species besides humans. Read here:
news.nationalgeographic.com...

As a practicing Christian (I'm assuming based on your references to reading the Bible) you should know that God is perfect. We will accept this as fact for the purpose of this debate. As a practicing Christian, you should also know that ALL of the texts of the Bible were written by men. Men are not perfect, becuase they are not God. We will also accept this as fact for the purpose of this debate. My question to you is HOW can you accept, blindly and without reason, the Bible as 100% fact and the word of perfect God, when it was in fact, written 100% by imperfect men?

Your entire focus on the wrongness of homosexuality is based entirely on an imperfect literary work. Because the authenticity of the Bible is a matter of BELIEF and not FACT, it is not an acceptable resource for a scientific argument. Based on your previous statements, I will assume that you also disagree with Evolution theory and Relativity theory, as being fundamentally against the teachings of the Bible. Therefore, sir, your arguments are irrelevant and unwelcome in a standardized debate format.

It is exactly these kind of statements that ruin the advancement of knowledge. The same Bible that advises against Homosexuality, the same Bible that describes the world was created in 7 days, also advises that you should never eat pork. When was the last time you had bacon with breakfast? IF we accept the book of Genesis as fact, Eve ate the apple of the tree of knowledge. Therefore, while the penalty may have been expulsion from paradise, knowledge (and the pursuit of it) are what we are left with. Therefore, a debate of this sort, while you may disagree with homosexuality, does not have room for your anti-homosexuality rhetoric as the Bible cannot be counted as irrefutable proof other than in your own belief. Therefore, please take your closed minded hate mongering elsewhere, otherwise provide some substantial, factual, scientific evidence that supports your belief.

Well, that's still not making me feel better.

Here's the deal. There are some of us in the world who follow the words of Jesus Christ and try our best or worst to emulate his lifestyle. Within that lifestyle, within his message, is an example of total and unconditional tolerance and love. That's what we believe. At the same time, there are certain lifestyles that people will follow that we, the tolerant, will not be able to say "YAY! We approve of your lifestyle!" That in no way implies intolerance, nor does it imply we do not love you and accept you as a fellow child of God. What it does imply is that while we are loving you and accepting you as a fellow child of God - we won't be accepting your lifestyle. We don't want to burn you at the stake. We don't want to slap a chastity belt on you...we don't want to castrate you. But you will not force us to make a statement of blessing on your lifestyle.

This rejection at making a statement of blessing on your lifestyle seems to be a point of spoiled-brat, foot-stomping immaturity on your part to try to villify us - when we are in no means trying to villify you - accuse us falsely, misrepresent our beliefs and in general make us the pariah of society. NO! Your tactics won't work. We won't give up our faith, our beliefs or our commitment to a way of life. We leave you be. Stop lying about us.

It's pretty simple really - only you guys keep showing an obsession to hate us for our belief system, and our faith-based unwillingness to say we're okay with your lifestyle. What you need to do - in your great stand to be recognized - is realize you don't need us to approve. You just need to get over yourselves and leave us alone - the way we leave you alone.

And NO - we're not the neo-cons with some great obsession to keep you from getting insurance benefits. We're just people who are committed to our faith.

[edit on 6-16-2005 by Valhall]

This may be off-topic, but when I was a kid and went to sunday school, one of my peers asked a visiting priest why the Bible didn't mention the "big bang" in Genesis, and also why Catholics eat pork even though the Bible says not to.

His reply was probably what prevented me from disavowing all religion. He said, "If you want to learn how the Universe works, read a book on science. If you want to know what to eat, read a book on nutrition. The Bible is a book on how to live your life."

Now, he was a progressive sort of priest, and perhaps the Pope would have a few words to say about that, but he was no fool. He understood what parts of the Bible were the most important. I'm sure if the kid had asked him what the deal with gays in the Bible was, the priest would have told him that the Bible wasn't a book on human sexuality, it was a book on tolerance, or something similar.

Anyway, just wanted to tell this story as a reminder that not all Christians are raving loons who take everything literally. Sorry if it sounds like a crappy parable, but it's a true story, and I thought it was kind of relevant.

-koji K.

Valhall,

If that's the kind of Christian you are, then I don't think you're the kind people get upset about. It's the kind who do things like this that are the focus of other people's displeasure and fear.

Having an opinion about what's right and wrong is nobody's but your own business, and entirely within your rights.
Actively persecuting people who do you no harm is everybody's business.

[edit on 6/16/05 by xmotex]