Out Of Place Artifacts

Here are a few more interesting anamolies .I like the painting of a dino on a cave wall in france. The cave is closed to the public.


www.genesispark.com...

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong

Originally posted by JustMe74

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
there are 2 newspaper articles on it. One in the edmond daily news (precluded the edmond sun) and the other in the tulsa, world the same month.

What month and day did the article appear? What is "the tulsa" ?

the tile was found on june 27th of 1969... the articles appeared in the edmond "booster" paper on july 3rd and the Tulsa World in june 29th (same year)

here is the only mention I could find online:
200,000 yr old tile floor...

A cursory search of the net revealed that the same couple of paragraphs are repeated on several sites:

ufoinfo.com...
www.100megsfree4.com...
www.azoidx.com...
www.informantnews.com...

All of them except the "UFO Roundup" (yes, a dubious source, at best) omit the following part of the story (but are otherwise copied verbatim from some original source):

Dr. Robert Bell, an archaeologist from the University of Oklahoma, expressed his opinion that the find was a natural formation. Dr. Bell said that he could see no evidence of any mortaring substance.

I doubt that the "floor" is 200,000 years old as stated in the article, but this is a very interesting find nonetheless. I fully intend to investigate this further (I've started by ordering a copy of the Edmond Booster from the Oklahoma Historical Society).

Just off the top of my head - and I'll admit that meso-American history is not my specialty in history - I am going to speculate that if this is indeed man-made, as opposed to some sort of natural formation, that whoever built it is likely related to the Hohokam tribe that existed in the Southwest... they in turn were Aztec-related peoples who had migrated northward and built some pretty sophisticated structures like irrigation canals and ball courts. They lived in the southwest from ~ 300 BCE to 1500 CE. I actually wrote a paper a while back for a college history class that argued that they had a trading empire (there is good physical evidence of this) early on... none of their structures have been found as far north as Oklahoma, but I'd say they're the best candidates for building something sophisticated like a tile floor. If they didn't build it directly, it's possible that they exported some of their expertise to other people that lived in the area.

Anyway, that's all speculation... I will investigate further and report what I learn.

Originally posted by LazarusTheLongas I am sure happens so often...

Nowadays, in the US and other parts of the world, there is a requirement that scientificaly important finds (as decided by researchers, not site managers) have to be excavated and studied and work has to be stopped (or at least prevented from interefereing).

This is why its extremely difficult to, say, build large subway lines in Rome. Hell, in a place like that, I imagine its difficult to do private landscapping!

lostinspace
There was word by those that worked on one of the largestest Intel plants here, that the diggers uncovered a Mammoth Tusk

Doubtful. Something like that wouldn't stop a work project. Hell, intell would've probably paid for the excavation, made a PR event out of it, built the rest of the building in the meanwhile, and then put the dam thing in their lobby. heh heh.

flange gasket
showed evidence of rainfall erosion.

The evidence was not convincing to the geological community. Vertical wear can be cause be rain, or by other sources of erosion.

Such erosion could only mean

Thats the problem a lot of people have with this stuff. The evidence is not unequivocal. Such erosion can be caused by other stuff than heavy rainfall. I, personally, have mixed feelings about this evidence, but I don't see why it should be unreasonable to think that the sphynx was carved by a pre-dynastic civilization.

John Anthony West [...]credibility

I don't think anyone that is serious takes west seriously. He runs a tour company, and also sells that 'magic egypt' dvd (which in itself was almost a scam, a lot of people had serious trouble getting it, and when they got it, it was 'an hours long add for his tour company).
Schoch, however, who is the one who originally did the study, has, as far asI am aware, no credibility issues, iow, he is credible.

Originally posted by timoothy
like the painting of a dino on a cave wall in france.

This?

"a picture of a dinosaur fighting a mammoth"


Even their interpretive drawing isn't very convincing.
Also, there are dinosaurs fighting mammoths in france, neanderthals saw it, we have neanderthal remians, mammoth remians, the remians of paintings, but no dinosaur remains in that context? Nor any mammoth remians that show signs of beign eaten and scavanged by dinosaurs?

Actually, the actual photo looks more like 2 mammoths, since the 'dinosuar' has paint on the far left side, which might indicate the head. the scene could be of a herd of mammoth.

The cave is closed to the public.

Good. Cave paintings are delicate and would be quickly destroyed if the public could tour them. Researchers, however, can get in and study them. And of course the pics are available too.

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
Just a point...
I will point out however that archeology sites that could prove these claims true are found every day by constructiuon workers and road builders but are destroyed or covered up due to timelines, and apathy of ignorant minds

in 1969 a huge mosaic tile floor was found in oklahoma on the corner of 122nd and broadway. (under 3 feet of soil)
It was thousands of square feet in size and observers readily surmised that it was nothing built by native americans...
the suppositions range from mesoamerican cultures, phoenocian, viking and even indo european...

but the problem is... they wont ever know, because there is a frikin highway and electrical relay on top of it now.

As soon as the road crew found it, they called the geological society, and that was that... they spooked them...
the geological society wanted to do more research, but that would have delayed the road building... so the bulldozers won...
as I am sure happens so often...
developers worst news would be our best...

"ancient city found on site of future walmart"
wont ever happen, becuase the building crew would never let it... they just want their paycheck folks...

this stuff means much to us, but to many... it is nothing but a waste of time and money.

Too true, too sad. I was taken on a private tour of some Etruscan digs, tombs, and a museum near Cortona, Italy a couple of years ago and the archaeologists and curators were complaining that "finds" were being concealed since the Italian government had passed antiquities legislation that allowed them to basically sieze your land immediately if any antiquities were discovered. I'm about 99% certain that this was done without any compensation or compensation that would be delayed until the research was fully completed. So, the Italians in this region will now conceal anything that they think might be remotely connected as an Etruscan site. Artifacts that were once proudly donated by Italian farmers are now sold on the black market - not for the profit that the artifact brings but in order to conceal the location of it's finding.

Crummy deal but, you can hardly blame them.

Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by LazarusTheLongas I am sure happens so often...

Nowadays, in the US and other parts of the world, there is a requirement that scientificaly important finds (as decided by researchers, not site managers) have to be excavated and studied and work has to be stopped (or at least prevented from interefereing).

This is why its extremely difficult to, say, build large subway lines in Rome. Hell, in a place like that, I imagine its difficult to do private landscapping!

yes, Nygdan... that is the way it is "supposed" to work....
as you can see from other posters personal experience...it rarely does...
it is too easy to keep a secret that everyone involved wants to keep
(i.e. the construction workers and supervisors)
in that group of "finders" there is not one person that would benefit from a disclosure...

the only person that may benefit is the owner of the property, if the find turned out to be significant... but unfortunatly... he is usually at home when these things are found and quickly relost...

I also am personally aware of many native american finds... (this is land of red man) that were quickly removed to another area due to a building deadline...


a previous poster showed an article about an ancient fortress in oklahoma...I also have heard the tales...
when a new one was found recently in the same area, it was bulldozed over quickly (allegedly by the evil NWO government) but in actuallity... just the construction company that was hired to clear the trees for a building project, and didn't want to lose there job (they were the same group that uncovered it)

so much history is lost due to the same true source of many of our conspiracies...
greed and apathy... the true enemy #1 of the conspiracy "nuts"

Originally posted by JustMe74
I fully intend to investigate this further (I've started by ordering a copy of the Edmond Booster from the Oklahoma Historical Society).

OK - The Oklahoma Historical Society sent me a series of articles that I requested; here are two photos of the "floor" from the June 28th and July 3rd 1969 issues of "The Oklahoman".. keep in mind that these are photocopies from a newspaper that I scanned, so the quality is not spectacular:





The articles are extremely interesting as well. I don't know if I am allowed to reprint them in their entirety here, so until I find that out I'm not going to.

I plan on contacting the University of Oklahoma to see if any further research was done on this site. I don't have high hopes, because according to the Jul 1st 1969 issue, it says:

The formation, apparently about 100 feet square, was unearthed at a construction site on 122 St. A food stuffs warehouse and a distribution center is to be built on the seven-acre site.

Project foreman Buckner and contractor Bob Schoenthafer are as interested in the mystery as the professional rock men.

Apparently a "tool" of some sort - possibly a hammer -was also found at the site (there are a couple of articles that talk about it). Apparently some tests were going to be run on it, but then as far as I can tell, nothing was ever printed about it again.

Originally posted by JustMe74
the tile was found on june 27th of 1969... the articles appeared in the edmond "booster" paper on july 3rd and the Tulsa World in june 29th

Looking at the photos, I'm going to bet that the reason there's no followup is that the floor IS geologic in nature (as Bell says) and not human constructed. I've seen rocks like that before... can't swear to it, but if it was a real site, we'd have heard all about it in the archaeological presses.

Just off the top of my head - and I'll admit that meso-American history is not my specialty in history - I am going to speculate that if this is indeed man-made, as opposed to some sort of natural formation, that whoever built it is likely related to the Hohokam tribe that existed in the Southwest...

Hohokam artifacts aren't found that far east. Caddoan (had it been real) or moundbuilders would be a tad more likely, but it really wasn't them.

they in turn were Aztec-related peoples who had migrated northward and built some pretty sophisticated structures like irrigation canals and ball courts.

Different language roots, I should also add. The Aztec-related groups and Na-dene root language speakers are fairly recent (6,000 years ago or so) migrants to North America, and the AmerInd speakers were well established by the time they got here.

They lived in the southwest from ~ 300 BCE to 1500 CE.

At that time, the Caddos were in that particular area of Oklahoma:
www.cast.uark.edu...

If they didn't build it directly, it's possible that they exported some of their expertise to other people that lived in the area.

There wasn't much technological adaptation in the Americas (beyond lithics and basketweaving) because the basic material and climates changed so. For instance, they couldn't import their adobe structures and technology to Oklahoma, because it rains too much. Nor was there any good quarrying stone around and proper clays for good ceramic technology was scarce in some areas.

...I'm in the process of writing a chapter on this stuff, which is the only reason I'm up on it. Lazy me!

Originally posted by Byrd
Looking at the photos, I'm going to bet that the reason there's no followup is that the floor IS geologic in nature (as Bell says) and not human constructed. I've seen rocks like that before... can't swear to it, but if it was a real site, we'd have heard all about it in the archaeological presses.

That was my first thought too, however, there is a little more to it than what you can see in the photos though; I'll post some quotes from the articles when I have a chance.

Originally posted by Byrd
Hohokam artifacts aren't found that far east. Caddoan (had it been real) or moundbuilders would be a tad more likely, but it really wasn't them.

Thanks; I am not an expert in this subject, so I will have to research it some more.

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
that is the way it is "supposed" to work....
as you can see from other posters personal experience...it rarely does...
it is too easy to keep a secret that everyone involved wants to keep
(i.e. the construction workers and supervisors)
in that group of "finders" there is not one person that would benefit from a disclosure

I think its a far stretch to say that the 'earth shattering' stuff has only been found on construction sites, and recent ones at that.

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
the tile was found on june 27th of 1969... the articles appeared in the edmond "booster" paper on july 3rd and the Tulsa World in june 29th (same year)

here is the only mention I could find online:
200,000 yr old tile floor...

Looks like an urban legend to me. That website doesn't site any evidence at all, for all I know it could be completely made up. How did they manage to dig up something so big while constructing a road? Who dated this to 200,000 years old and how did they do it? Could have been floor tiles 20 years old, if anything was found at all.

The Antikythera Mechanism:
aboutfacts.net...

It is believed that Archimedes created the Antikythera Mechanism.
Here's a little history on Archimedes:
www.crystalinks.com...

I watched a documentary on the History Channel linking Archimedes to the Antikythera Mechanism.
I believe it was Archimedes who created a wheel in chariots that could calculate the distance traveled by using a mechanism that used multiple wheels which dropped a stone in some thing every some miles..
Not really sure how it worked, but I know for sure that it used multiple wheels and dropping of stones to calculate distance; This was on that same documentary.

Originally posted by FatherLukeDuke
Looks like an urban legend to me. That website doesn't site any evidence at all, for all I know it could be completely made up. How did they manage to dig up something so big while constructing a road? Who dated this to 200,000 years old and how did they do it? Could have been floor tiles 20 years old, if anything was found at all.

Nope...it is real... see the pics... the only thing in question is whether it is "real" mosiac tile... and not natural... and I mispoke... it was while building a large warehouse that it was found.

Byrd. I live less than a mile from that site, and have lived in this state all my life. I have found no other "flat" rock like that anywhere close... we have lots of rocks, but the area is mostly layered sandstone that tends to wear according to erosion plains... (of which the local area is rather hilly). I have found some "flat" areas in the state, but they are usually in the gypsum production areas of the NW part of the state. To add a point... there seem to be other sites that contain "ancient walls" that seem to be the basis for a metal foundry. I beleive you have commented on these in other articles...

now for a possible related issue... The Viking runes in Heavener, were recently authenicated... so we do have confirmation of viking presence here around 300-1000ad. The runes were originally considered fake due to the misuse of a certain rune, but it turned out to be precisely the correct rune when you considered the date was earlier than first supposed.

now I add this next comment only to inspire open minded thinking...
from the wilburton mine... an iron pot was found in the middle of a chunk of coal in thomas oklahoma. that would put the artifact at the same age as the coal... ancient...
there are documented stories of hundreds of items being found in coal... so either we don't understand totally how coal is formed, or there is some ancient knowledge we don't have...

Byrd: have you studied any of the viking settlements in America? I am wondering if they could explain any of the "mysteries"

[edit on 28-6-2005 by LazarusTheLong]

I haven't studied much about the Vikings in America (though I'm always willing to look at stuff!) I can read the rune letters, though not the language (at least, I don't think it's going to be standard German.)

I do know they were here. Hadn't heard that the Heavener stone had been authenticated (and don't see any obvious links about it.) Do you have a source?

If you have an interest in this stuff, we can start a thread to investigate what's known and what's been authenticated and what looks probable. (g) I learn lots from researching stuff here.

I would assume that there is a news article on the heavener stone... I also have not found it...
a sign at the park states that the original refutation was retracted due to a new understanding of origins of specific runes. It also backdated the stone by as much as 500 years by the use of that rune... (info is sketchy in memory, so don't quote me entirely)

I am very interested in this subject and find your comments very informative...
I do think that there are certain fundamental assumptions in geologic time scale that might be revised by the research...
(i.e. the recent finding that "oil" doesn't have to be near as old as we first thought, and that it forms in other ways than we previously thought).
It might explain alot, and help offer thoerys on other mysteries...
I have researched the ooparts situation and find that many tales are just that... but there are a few diamonds there that need to be explored with geologic formation in mind...

i.e. artifacts that appear miles down in new mines, might have followed water runoff channels that latter collapsed... not be evidence of a civilization that existed millions of years ago...

but the ancient foundry walls and the other unusual pre-native american culture artifacts do intrigue me... Perhaps the mild Oklahoma weather and ready supply of many ores, made this an early nomadic cultures hub for trading. Perhaps crude metal formation existed thousands of years before we think, but only in america... and only amongst a culture that died out or moved.
hummmm

I have read a bit on this topic, and the L'anse aux meadows site confirms they were here. But there was much evidence before. The Vikings themselves said that beyond Greenland they had a community established in Estotiland, or some similar name. The RCC was so convinced that it existed that apparently they wanted to be sure to tax them, but were unable to. The recording of the details of journey in the late 1300's to Nova Scotia by Scottish Earl Henry Sinclair are very accurate, well supporting the truth of their happening. Then there is the Newport Tower in Rhode Island, and castle foundations in Nova Scotia, and of course, Oak Island. I cannot remember if the reason the settlements were abandoned has been determined, but they were, and because Henry Sinclair was also a Jarl of Norway, he would have had access to the directions on how to get there. Columbus was a johnny come lately by centuries. But he was the one who made the directions on how to get there public, it was a secret up until then.

(just for Byrd)

"Vinland (pronounced "Winland") was the name given to part of North America by the Icelandic Norseman Leif Eiríksson, about year 1000. Later archeological evidence of Norse settlement in North America was found in L'Anse aux Meadows in Newfoundland, Canada. Whether this was the Vinland of the Norse accounts is the subject of debate. It must be recognised that the Vikings did not perceive the exploration and settlement of Greenland and Vinland as any different than that of founding Iceland. It was merely an extension of their homeland and notions as to a different world only surfaced upon meeting the natives, noticeably different from Irish monks in Iceland. The colonization of the "New World" only occurred some time after Christopher Columbus discovered Central America for economic reasons."

en.wikipedia.org...
www.mnsu.edu...
Kensington Runestone

There you go; however this is where it gets interesting.

Last time my Grand-father visited upstate New York to the Reservation some of our family live on he spoke to the Tribe there about the "Norse in America". Anyway, the guy he spoke to (My Great-Uncle) said to him that;

One of the Tribes of Native American's actually have an oral tradition and tale of these people (blonde hair, sailed upon a beast (dragon headed boat), etc) and that this tribe for years allowed them to settle in this area.
However, this is where it gets interesting - this guy also said that the Tribe killed them off. These guys did something that the Tribe felt was a crime - primarily against their Gods and it resulted in killing them off and destroying the settlement.

I'll ask my Grand-father about the name of the Tribe, however he's getting on for 80 now so I'm not 100% sure if he'll remember it or not.

There are blue-eyed Native Americans that were a surprise to early explorers of Florida, who may have had a Scandinavian forebear in their ancestry. Also, the Newport Tower predates the earliest recorded European settlers, but is very probably built by some unknown Europeans in the pre-Columbus days. A castle on a plateau in Nova Scotia that has never been explained also has a design, and a few small personal artifacts found within, that are probably of Old World origin. The Farfarers whom Farley Mowat wrote of are another enigmatic group who were in America long before Columbus, but very little is known of them today. Also, some of the words in Native American languages have been claimed to be inexplicably similar to many found across the Atlantic. The Pharoahs, Chinese, and Africans all have good solid evidence to support journeys to America over a millenia ago. None of these journeys are accepted as being historically real, though the proof of their validity actually surpasses that accepted as proof of some of the 'established' trips. Cabot's very sketchy, and inconclusive record of his journey lacks anything that can confirm its validity. It is so vague, and some things are so unusual that it is, imho, a fabrication, only created to establish territorial claims of precedence.

Along very similar lines to the Heavener Stone is the Tifineg inscriptions in Peterborogh Ontario. They were said to have been made as long as 3700 years ago by a Norse king, Woden-Lithi. There's also the Isle Royale copper mines in the area dated to around the same time. The date sounds unbelievably early, but I'm keeping an open mind on this one.

faculty.ucr.edu...
faculty.ucr.edu...

www.sunnyway.com...

www.kotv.com...

About 1/2 way down some pic's of some stones.
www.shareyourstate.com...

Roper

BTW The photo of the tiles in Okla., well I have seen this same stone pattern. I can't remember where, could have been in Seminole,Co. Sequoyah.Co or Texas,Co. but it was in a creek bed.

Roper out.