Amnesty responds to Bush's comments

If you think they are guilty place them on trial let the courts decide.
Also there's a term called: Self Fulfilling Prophecy (Pygmalion Effect)
First, that is going on right now. Look up a guy called Michael Ratner. How do you think terrorists are being let out and going back to Afghanistan to fight?
Secondly, we wanted military tribunials. These are what a normal POW would get if he was suspected of trying to blow up civilians or assassinate democratic politicians. But the left said NO! I guess the only thing you want is full US Constitutional rights to these guys.

To be honest, those three people were probably not terrorists
Every instance of an innocent imprisioned at Gitmo hasn't turned out to be true. Look at Mamdouh Habib.
Even when there is no direct evidence, as in the case of David Hicks, they are assigned lawyers and get court cases. But remember, these are converts to Islam with track records of fanatism that went to Afghanistan once war was declared. What do you think they are?

but after several years of being locked away and "tortured" it'd mess your head up. Which is the idea of torture.They probable came out of there hating America so much they became what they thought they were. It happens with children if you tell them they are fat over and over, it can cause weight problems and anorexia nervosa
That's such a great generialization. Have you've been published yet? You're a sure bet for the Nobel Prize in my opinion.

So a guy at Gitmo gets fed oranges and bagels everyday. He lives in an air conditioned cell, and gets fresh laundry and better healthcare than I get. Remember we just dragged him out of a cave where he was wiping his ass with his own hand.

After we release him and apologize, he suddenly becomes a mythical figure in al Qaeda and appointed leadership roles. He goes back to Afghanistan to take hostages and behead Chinese aid workers.

This goes against the grain of how survivors of more brutal Nazi death camps behaved, but hey makes sense to me!

And yeah taken 600 prisoners of war when dismantling the Taliban and al Qaeda is way too high. There has to be thousands, if not millions of innocent Afghani civillians in Gitmo.



Idiot

Originally posted by deltaboy
i dont see how giving Osama bin laden a lawyer paid by American taxpayers is gonna help the Ameircan people.

Let me ask you something. What if someone went on a mass murder spree, killing thousands. The cops can't find him. What do the cops do?
They interview all known aquaintances, friends, family, associates... right or wrong?

What would you say if:

- The cops refused to interview the suspected mass murder's family?
- The cops were kept and prevented from interviewing the mass murder's family?
- It was found out the police chief knew the suspect intimatly for 30 years?

Guess freeeekin what.....
- The current president, along with his entire family, the Bush family, knew Osama, and Osama's family, intimatly for the past 30 years! They were buisness partners for decades.

- Texas news stations have video footage of the Taliban visiting Texas, staying and living on the Bush ranch! The Taliban walking down the middle of the street in Texas with the rednecks in their cowboy hats staring at em. A feminist woman even confronted em about how women are treated in the Middle East.

Feminist woman in TX talking to Taliban: "Why do you treat women like garbage? Like property? With no rights! How come women don't have equal rights with men! How come women in your country can't take jobs from men? Make as much and more money than men?!"

Taliban, dressed in headwrap, and Taliban cloths, in TX responding: "I feel sorry for your husband or the men in your life."

Read on for more......

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Originally posted by deltaboy

Originally posted by boogyman
Yeah I mean why would we want to follow the rule of law?

u can go pay for his lawyer, ill watch wat he does (maybe sending a message to release him) also lets hope none of his brothers come over to US and take over a couple of elementary schools and demand his release. and the lawyer will agree that we need to release him because he dont look terrorizing enough.

Guess freeeekin what?
Not only did Osama's brothers and sisters come over to the USA. They lived in the USA for years and years. They even owned buisnesses with the Bush family for decades.

AND during the days of 9-11 remember when no one was allowed to fly? Remember when all airlines were grounded? Guess who was allowed to fly?
C'mon guess?


[edit on 5-6-2005 by OpenSecret2012]

Originally posted by the_oleneo
Yes, that's what I have to say. If you don't like it, don't give me that "USA broke sh*tload of international laws" garbage and take a freaking hike (otherwise, I might put you on "ignore" which is rare in my case).

go ahead
atleast then i wont have to read your ingnorant replys
make that if you dont in the next 24 hours i will just to save you the trouble

what you dont like people saying their mind even so its the truth
or are you to rapped up in that blanket of hypocrisy and lies that you think everything the USA does is just and right?

the US broke lots of international laws so get that through your thick skull before you start making stupid replys

Originally posted by the_oleneo
Does criminals or murderers have rights after they committed actual crimes like defrauding and robbing people or murdering them?

Yes they do.

If the shoe was in the other foot: would you suggest that Bush, Cheney and his people have rights as well under imprisonment and awaiting trials for a very long time?

Yes, I would.

Yes (to the first question). Actually, it is one person and several more came forward to confirm AND affirm everything what the daughter of Lakota founder of AIM have said about Amnesty International and other UN-backed NGOs. The person who works for this firm for the UN have many connections to Native American organizations and activists throughout North America, pretty much described to me in details about how more Native American organizations and activists are finally opening their eyes to the massive deception and propaganda coming from Amnesty International and other NGOs backed by the UN. Amnesty International is closely connected to the Planned Parenthood and Agenda 21, two of the biggest NWO-backed organizations, specifically purposed to reduce world population and manage/sustain/control world resources for the NWO elite.

In a nutshell: Amnesty International is a benign human rights organization as a public facade, a staged group passively promoting human right interests but it is actually established to undermine democratic societies and non-democratic societies to the point of creating external conflict between them (throwing and leveling accusations at each other; pot calling kettle black) and controlling the outcomes of the conflict to the NWO Elite's advantages.

Wait, now its a NWO scheme?
Ok this is just gettig stupid.

Originally posted by deltaboy
The top leadership of Amnesty International USA ...
contributed the maximum $2,000 to Sen. John Kerry's
presidential campaign.

William F. Schulz, executive director of Amnesty USA,
contributed $2,000 to Mr. Kerry's campaign last year.
Mr. Schulz also has contributed $1,000 to the 2006
campaign of Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, Massachusetts Democrat.

We used to support Amnesty International. We gave $$$ and
told others about them and basically grass roots campaigned
for them. I wish we hadn't. Amnesty International is not
what it used to be. It is no longer a human rights group that
is blind to borders and vogue politics. It's so sad. They used
to be such a good group. Now look at them...
they have 'risen' to the heights of Soros and Michael Moore.
What a sad waste of what used to be great.

Here is another response to Amnesty's comments.
newsmax.com...

Excerpt -

Don't Call Guantanamo a Gulag
Rachel Marsden
Sunday, June 5, 2005


In its annual human rights report, issued last week, Amnesty refers to
the U.S. prison camp for suspected terrorists in Guantanamo Bay (GTMO)
as "the gulag of our times, entrenching the practice of arbitrary and
indefinite detention in violation of international law."

Reality check: Under normal wartime practices, these enemy combatants
would already have been lined up against the nearest wall and
shot. "International law" protects prisoners of war who belong to a
legitimate national army, not terrorists.

In whining about the "gulag" at GTMO, Amnesty has taken a page from
al-Qaida's own playbook, which advises that captured jihadis "must insist
that torture was inflicted upon them by State Security [investigators]
before the judge" and "complain of mistreatment while in prison."

People seem to forget that these are military detentions in a time of war,
legitimized ultimately by the U.S. Congress at the request of the
president. If Amnesty had its way, enemy combatants would have
access to O.J. Simpson's courtroom Dream Team.

Even under ordinary criminal law, defendants sometimes spend months or
years behind bars until a determination of guilt or innocence can be made.



[edit on 6/5/2005 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by FlyersFan
We used to support Amnesty International. We gave $$$ and
told others about them and basically grass roots campaigned
for them. I wish we hadn't. Amnesty International is not
what it used to be. It is no longer a human rights group that
is blind to borders and vogue politics. It's so sad. They used
to be such a good group. Now look at them...

they have 'risen' to the heights of Soros and Michael Moore.
What a sad waste of what used to be great.

So you dont like anything that doesnt 100% follow the USA?

Originally posted by lukethedrifter
That's why the world hates America. You don't even know for sure if 9/11 was orchstrated by OBL.
He admitted to it. Anyone ever hear of Mohammed Atta, Khaled Sheik Mohammed and Zarqwarias Mussaui?

My opinion is that America has gone well beyond the acceptable boundaries to pursue the so called freedom and the busuness / greed driven takeover of various countries.
Yeah, we just can't wait to get our hands over all that oil. It is so much easier to wage war on another country for oil, versus drilling in ANWAR or off the Gulf of Mexico, which has a lot more oil than in Iraq and is more readily accessible. Idiot.

I guess it must be all those hair women that smell like goats. Either that our the sand.

I will report you to the moderator for this. Looser.

Originally posted by the_oleneo

Originally posted by Odium
Here, I'll make it simple for you all to understand:

If you think they are guilty place them on trial let the courts decide.
Also there's a term called: Self Fulfilling Prophecy (Pygmalion Effect)

To be honest, those three people were probably not terrorists but after several years of being locked away and "tortured" it'd mess your head up. Which is the idea of torture. They probable came out of there hating America so much they became what they thought they were. It happens with children if you tell them they are fat over and over, it can cause weight problems and anorexia nervosa.

Yes, the same thing is happening to people who hated America and passing the hatred onto other people and children, providing an environment of intolerance and hatred through constant verbal and mental preaching of anti-American sentiments. Perfect example of "I hate America". Pretty much described the opinions of wisdom-master, boogyman, bodrul, the james_the_lesser and their ilk.

Self-fulfilling prophecy there, odium!

I love America, as I am American. You are totally wrong!

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Don't Call Guantanamo a Gulag
Rachel Marsden
Sunday, June 5, 2005

This is the worst opinion piece that i've read until now. Every line contains a factual inaccuracy. Classic application of the neocon doctrine "the more you lie, the more chances you have to get away with it"

Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by the_oleneo
In a nutshell: Amnesty International is a benign human rights organization as a public facade, a staged group passively promoting human right interests but it is actually established to undermine democratic societies and non-democratic societies to the point of creating external conflict between them (throwing and leveling accusations at each other; pot calling kettle black) and controlling the outcomes of the conflict to the NWO Elite's advantages.

Wait, now its a NWO scheme?
Ok this is just gettig stupid.

You're in the ATS forum. The whole point of ATS forums is to discuss any/all information or insight pertaining to the NWO agendas, as well as UFO/alien subjects and among other things. You know, deny ignorance?

Amnesty International have becoming too political of late, which I founded it to be suspicious given the nature of its sudden involvement and support of few Democratic presidential candidates last year. Amnesty was supposed to be "apolitical", just report on human rights violations or concerns on all countries annually and raising awareness issues at the national/international level.

[edit on 6/5/2005 by the_oleneo]

Originally posted by WisdomMaster
I love America, as I am American. You are totally wrong!

When you stated, "USA should disarm", you negated yourself as an American. One of the founding principles of the United States is that an American citizen is entitled to bear arms, protect and defend the country and your fellow citizens against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

Originally posted by the_oleneo

Originally posted by WisdomMaster
I love America, as I am American. You are totally wrong!

When you stated, "USA should disarm", you negated yourself as an American. One of the founding principles of the United States is that an American citizen is entitled to bear arms, protect and defend the country and your fellow citizens against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

Article III

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Article IV

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

---

Article 3 comes before 4, for a reason. Freedom of Speech comes before the Militia, also it is for the "people to keep and bear arms". Not once does the Bill of Rights ever mention anything about a National Military. Which is what his statement said. To me it looked as though he was talking about Nuclear Weapons being disarmed (although I disagree with that) but you can't "remove" someones citizenship because you dislike what they said. Otherwise a lot of Americans well...would have no where to go because more often then not I see them breaking Article 3, 5,6 and 7 fairly often.

From Snopes.com

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trial

Origins: Another
timely quote... from a reviled twentieth-century figure associated with the most chilling example of genocide in human history: Hermann Goering, Nazi Reichsmarshall and Luftwaffe-Chief.

The quote cited above [and expanded below] does not appear in transcripts of the Nuremberg trials because although Goering spoke these words during the course of the proceedings, he did not offer them at his trial. His comments were made privately to Gustave Gilbert, a German-speaking intelligence officer and psychologist [in 1946].

...in the conversation, Gilbert recorded Goering's observations that the common people can always be manipulated into supporting and fighting wars by their political leaders:

We got around to the subject of war again and I said that, contrary to his attitude, I did not think that the common people are very thankful for leaders who bring them war and destruction.

"Why, of course, the people don't want war," Goering shrugged. "Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece. Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship."

"There is one difference," I pointed out. "In a democracy the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars."

"Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy.All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

Sound familiar?

I was going to post a whole diatribe on the hypocrisy of your views Oleneo (on one hand condemning the NWO on the other supporting the drive by NWO puppets to seize Iraqi oil resources) but I then realized that I have to start leaving for work. Not to mention the fact that your not even worth my time.

Just remember that no one with half a brain on this website supports you or your hypocritical views the next time you post here.

[edit on 5-6-2005 by boogyman]

Originally posted by the_oleneo
You're in the ATS forum. The whole point of ATS forums is to discuss any/all information or insight pertaining to the NWO agendas, as well as UFO/alien subjects and among other things. You know, deny ignorance?

The whole point of the board covers many things, not JUST NWO, the board itself is not a anti NWO board.
Yeah I do deny ignorance, the question you should ask is...do you?

Amnesty International have becoming too political of late, which I founded it to be suspicious given the nature of its sudden involvement and support of few Democratic presidential candidates last year. Amnesty was supposed to be "apolitical", just report on human rights violations or concerns on all countries annually and raising awareness issues at the national/international level.
[edit on 6/5/2005 by the_oleneo]

You can't become too political in todays world, why? Because politics affects everything.
It reports on what it can, if that means it reports on democracies more then so be it.

[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]

Originally posted by Odium
Article 3 comes before 4, for a reason. Freedom of Speech comes before the Militia, also it is for the "people to keep and bear arms". Not once does the Bill of Rights ever mention anything about a National Military. Which is what his statement said. To me it looked as though he was talking about Nuclear Weapons being disarmed (although I disagree with that) but you can't "remove" someones citizenship because you dislike what they said. Otherwise a lot of Americans well...would have no where to go because more often then not I see them breaking Article 3, 5,6 and 7 fairly often.

Odium, you got it all wrong. Article III explained the judicial powers and Article IV - faith in each state for its record-keeping, proceedings and acts and keeping the Congress informed of each state's acts/laws. These Articles are in the US Constitution while the First Amendment and the Second Amendment are the Bill of Rights amended under the Constitution and each is a separate Amendment outlining its specific purposes, not whether the Second come before the First and so on.

If you have the right to speak out, who will protect you for speaking out? The police or the military?

The Constitution's Article 1, Section 8, Clause 1 to 18 gives the Congress the power to establish a common defense (read: a national military) among other things.

Our nuclear weapon arsenal is just an extension of the United States' right to defend itself militarily. We should not be disarmed just because wisdom-master or tulipwalkers says so. It's a fallacious and absurd demand and a dangerous one at that. Any nuclear disarmament push against the United States solidify other powers', even our allies', strategical assaults on the United States by any mean.

Do not ever assume that other powers with nuclear arms would do the same if the United States do the complete disarmament. And do not EVER assume that other countries would end all military hostilities overnight. IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY!

Originally posted by boogyman
I was going to post a whole diatribe on the hypocrisy of your views Oleneo (on one hand condemning the NWO on the other supporting the drive by NWO puppets to seize Iraqi oil resources) but I then realized that I have to start leaving for work. Not to mention the fact that your not even worth my time.

Too bad. You're a real disappointment. Proud American? Right.

Originally posted by boogyman
Just remember that no one with half a brain on this website supports you or your hypocritical views the next time you post here.

I really don't care about that. I get my words one way or another and the truth will come out. You'll get your comeuppance anyway. It'll be interesting.

Oleneo,

It is sad to see that you are continuing to disregard the aim of this website.

Have a look at the banner at the top, it says "deny ignorance" not embrace or proliferate it.

Your posts continue to chastise others for daring to hold a different opinion yet your own is short on facts (ie has none) and long on prejudice.

Cheers

BHR

If you defend Guantanomo Bay. you are a despicable human being, undeserving of the freedoms you have.

These people are NOT terrorists, they are ACCUSED of being terrorists. Not even in a legal manner...

That's it. Accused. Sometimes even just SUSPECTED. And they stay in Gitmo for YEARS before even getting a trial if they even get one.

I sincerely hope one of you pro-Gitmo twerps ISN'T accused of terrorism (falsely) and DOESN'T gets shipped to Gitmo and DON'T get to see how the "other half" lives. If that's what it takes to change your tune,...

I'll even send you flowers and books while you fester and decay in a small cell with no access to a lawyer and no legal options WHATSOEVER.

It's called karma. And it's true justice.

jako

(edited to remove some nastiness)



[edit on 8-6-2005 by Jakomo]

Oleneo,

No response for my post of the 06/06/05 above?

Are you content with that?

Cheers

BHR

[edit on 21-6-2005 by BillHicksRules]