you've probably seen this but

praise the lord they can be taught or at least one of them i'm just messing with you satyr we all have our strong points i'm sure you would whip me in some ohter area. actual area's. anyway you guys put up a good challenge

But hold on, you're not going to lilk this Hmmm, but that doesn't prove that John Itor is a hoax.

All it "proves" is that, for emotional reasons, he chose to go back and save another world line, and leave the one he was in; Perhpas hoping that it to would be saved. Just because he can't get back to his original time line doesn't mean he can't go back to one that's "just as good".


edit- time travel hurts my english abilities.

[Edited on 31-8-2003 by ktprktpr]

[Edited on 31-8-2003 by ktprktpr]

I'm not sure that's what he's saying, exactly.

From what I understand, he can travel as much as he wants, but not over 60+/- years.

The C204 begins to "break away" at about 60 years. This means the level of confidence drops rapidly after 60 years of travel and the worldline divergence increases. In other words, if I wanted to go back 2000 years and meet Christ, there is a better than average chance I would end up on a worldline where he was never born.

It's not the wordlines that create the divergence. It's the number of years traveled. The worldlines aren't as important as the divergence factor, which only grows through number of years traveled. Am I wrong?

I don't recall worldline creation as being the cause of divergence. According to that quote above, that's not the case.

However, the longer the unit is on past a safe divergence confidence, the "stranger" the worldline becomes. The unit I have is safe to about 1% for every sixty years at max power.

[Edited on 31-8-2003 by Satyr]

upon entering....

"From the very point I turn my machine off on (B), I create a new worldline just because I'm there. This line can be described as (C) and started when I got to (B).
"

maybe he doesnt create a new worldline. or he does but its not really creating a new one. he only changes it or makes it evolve i guess into a new one. so its like changing it not creating a new one.

but a better question is if you can travel into the future then that means that everything is already happend and is always happening. therefore all events on the world line is happening right now correct? if this was not true how would you go back into time? or forward for that matter.

Yeah all the events that can happen on a world line have happened, so to speak. But that doesn't eliminate free will or anything tricky like that because everything is probablistic and "potential" and using free will you navigate through this world line.

Actually if you look at what I just said I'm saying that we all "time travel" by chosing our own choices and landing on different world lines. Hmmm...

See my post above? You guys have been distracted by the worldline confusion. The worldline isn't as important as staying within the 60 something year travel range. Get it yet?
If he were to travel forward to get back to 2036, he'd exceed that limit. That's the only reason for having to go back, then forward. Worldlines are almost irrelevant. The only thing that increases is the divergence between his original wordline, and the one he'll return to, and that's only dependant on the number of years or the length of time the machine is on.

Who didn't understand this???? Doesn't it just blow your mind?

[Edited on 31-8-2003 by Satyr]

[Edited on 13-9-2003 by Undead]

[Edited on 13-9-2003 by Undead]

Well,

as I see the story as a very-well crafted hoax, I haven't paid much attention to the technical aspect... Instead, I've just read and re-read his 'historical' comments...

So far as it being impossible for Omaha to be the capital in a post-WW3 world, being as it is, now, target numero uno for the Russians, you guys are forgetting that he specifically stated that Russia was only fighting one element of the USA -- that is, Russia in 2015 went to war with the Urban faction that claimed to be the actual 'United States of America', so...
1)though he said that the military was, in large part, loyal to the 'United States of America', it is very possible that not all of the military took up such allegiance. The forces around Offut air force base could have joined the rebels... or, in the opening years of the war, the rebels may have seized Omaha. Remember, his hero was the 'Farmer General' who led the rural, rebel army in victory against the 'USA'. Who lives in Nebraska? Farmers. Perhaps, as his first victory, the Farmer General captured Omaha and made it his capital/command center. In the hands of the Rebels, Omaha would not have been targeted by the Russians in 2015.
or,
2)maybe Omaha WAS hit by nukes. It may have been rebuilt after the war, and chosen as the new capital because it WAS hit (sort of like how, today, Hiroshima is referred to as the City of Global Peace (or something like that)). It's choice may have been purely symbolic, as such. Remember, J-T also, repeatedly, mentioned how Hiroshima was rebuilt quickly after WW2.
3)Whether hit or not, Omaha is at the crossroads of agriculture. It's a town dedicated to moving food. Notice how J-T often said that, in the future, the ability to raise food was more important than anything else. As such, Omaha may be the capital because it is economically strongest... in the almost feudal world J-T says he's from.
4)or... the opposite.. Omaha may be the capital because it is weak. Disdaining the power of the old federal government, the people of J-T's time may have picked Omaha as the capital because it couldn't muster power.

[Edited on 13-9-2003 by Undead]

[Edited on 13-9-2003 by Undead]

I mean, Jesus Christ in a chicken basket! This guy would've had to have spent at least a year just doing research to tie all this together! Not to mention the time it would take to to put the materials together....TM, pics, machine, laser. Have you ever seen anyone carry on a hoax for that length of time, and leave absolutely nothing solid to disprove it? Hoax or not, it's truly fascinating.

Okay I'm not sure it really matters but my position is "half-way believing".

He can never really go back to his own time (he admits this), but can go to one that's pretty damn close. The point in deconstructing how he time travels (the technical details) is that if he came up with something inconsistent then it would obviously be a hoax. However, upon further examination, his method of time travel is consistent with the theory he gave ... or is it?

Since divergence is based on time span, not jumping, Saytr is correct that jumping back to the future is a valid way to keep the divergence down.

BUT If he's not ever going to go back to where he left, because of divergence, then why does he specifically go back to 1975 point "C", for example? If he goes towards the future in intervals to cut down on the divergence than it wouldn't mater what date he chose! He could've chosen 1976 and it probably wouldn't have mattered at all. This is a suspecious inconsistency.

Now, other than that tidbit I believe, mostly what this guy has said. The fact remains he predicted serious things that happened, before they happened. At that ufocity.com site they reveal some faxes he sent to Art Bell that cite these things, so he knows something, whoever he is.

All eyez on 2005

[Edited on 13-9-2003 by Undead]

[Edited on 13-9-2003 by Undead]

[Edited on 13-9-2003 by Undead]

Originally posted by ktprktpr
BUT If he's not ever going to go back to where he left, because of divergence, then why does he specifically go back to 1975 point "C", for example? If he goes towards the future in intervals to cut down on the divergence than it wouldn't mater what date he chose! He could've chosen 1976 and it probably wouldn't have mattered at all. This is a suspecious inconsistency.

Now, other than that tidbit I believe, mostly what this guy has said. The fact remains he predicted serious things that happened, before they happened. At that ufocity.com site they reveal some faxes he sent to Art Bell that cite these things, so he knows something, whoever he is.

All eyez on 2005

The only reason for returning to 1975 before he arrived, is to put the divergence back to the minimum. At least, that's what I gathered from it, since worldlines aren't an issue and divergence is. While creating yet another worldline, his divergence would be set back to the 2.5% that it was when he originally arrived there. Then, he's free to travel forward the 61 years back to 2036 with close to the same divergence he'd planned on having. I'm a little foggy on this one. Maybe someone else can explain it better? I'm not sure I said that right.

Satyr, Undead;

okay I've come full circle. I now believe again It makes sense that you want to "optmize" your jumping around. It's to "sad" that he can't ever go back to his own world line, but what can you do? If the crap goes down like he says in 2005 I'm going to have to seriously reconsider things. Anyone up for a Libertitian hike? www.freestateproject.org...

I've passed this thread off to jt.com, for posterity's sake too

I wouldn't believe it. I still don't. I won't even come close to believing it, unless the civil war starts some time in the next 2 years or so.