US Helicopters

SInce the Comanchee project was killed what will replace it?

Is there anything going on in this feild?

Imposes some unique constraints on helicopters. 'New' is not neccesarily more advanced after a point in this technology. Economics also constrains what is essentially a hand-made work of art with 30,000 parts and 70,000 man hours of labor just to get the thing ready to preflight the first time.

Avionics improve, and slide in and out on trays.

Weapons systems improve, and bolt on and off.

So I would say, for attack-scout helicopter, AH1Z- an evolutionary improvement on a tried, proven, capable design.

And the Apache.

[edit on 1-6-2005 by Chakotay]

Actually, yes the Apache will have to go on for a few years more as US main attack chopper.

The main reason usually presented is that the comanche wasn't adapted anymore to modern warfare, like in Iraq.

But there are numerous other projects going on about the future LAH/AAH light attack, Advanced attack helicopter.

further links to come

much of the US$14.6 billion that was to be spent on the cancelled Comanche over the FY2004 to FY2011 period, adding to the US$6.9 billion already squandered, will be used to provide the US Army with 368 new, yet to be designed, armed reconnaissance helicopters to replace Kiowa Warriors, and 303 new light utility helicopters. A Request for Proposal (RFP) for 368 of the Armed Reconnaissance Helicopter (ARH) was issued on 9 December 2004, with a decision understood to be made by June 2005. The US Army will also acquire an additional 20 Chinooks and 80 Black Hawks, upgrade 501 Apache Longbows to Block III configuration and will also fund a joint heavy lift programme to replace all its cargo and heavy lift helicopters by 2020. However, given past procrastination, funding disputes and frequent changes in requirements, the current plan will undoubtedly undergo further revisions in the years ahead.

Janes

Hopefully a few details about the various designs submitted for the RFP will soone come out.

It is possible that after buying some new up-to-date machines, the real replacement will be UCAR.

I foresee a strong comeback of the Hueys.

Duct tape and coat hangars all da way, baby!



[edit on 6/1/05 by EastCoastKid]

so basiclly no one has a clue what helicopter programs are to replace the cancelled one.

Anyone else think the Mi-35 would be the best new helicopter for americas war on terrorism?

Heavy armour... troop carrying capability and a hell of a lot of firepower






[edit on 1-6-2005 by Lucretius]

That's weird. I was ploughing through my deleted emails today, and noticed Jane's sent me something on that very bird.

I'll checkit out and relay what it sez.

The ARH procurement is nearing completion. Since I'm involved in it, I can't go into a lot of detail, but this much is out on the street anyway.

There are only two serious bidders, Bell and Boeing. One of the requirements is that the chosen aircraft should be as close to off-the-shelf as possible. We are proposing an MD Helicopter Little Bird (MD530), since the Army already uses them for their 160th SOAR people, and some other Secret Guys. There will be some additional packages, of course.

Bell is bidding one of their JetRanger variants, undoubtedly with some of their extra packages as well. Although the JetRanger variant lacks (in my opinion) certain characteristics the Army would like, Bell has one of the best logistics "tails" in the world, and this is an extremely important selection criterion.

Both proposals have been submitted, and the customer will probably be requesting a BAFO (best and final offer) with the final downselect and subsequent contract award in a couple of months.

Given the high number of aircraft, this procurement is extremely important for both companies.

The real winner, of course, is the US Army, since they will finally be able to get rid of the OH-58 Kiowa, one of the most horrid aircraft ever to disgrace the inventory of any military in history.

Originally posted by matej
It is possible that after buying some new up-to-date machines, the real replacement will be UCAR.

UCAR was cancelled late last year...the army pulled its fundng and DARPA couldn't support the large program by itself.

I hope future helicopters will get rid of that obsolete anti torque rotors. It's really a shame such helos are still produced, while there are never and better designs such as NOTAR for example.

Longbow says:

I hope future helicopters will get rid of that obsolete anti torque rotors. It's really a shame such helos are still produced, while there are never and better designs such as NOTAR for example.

Actually, although we sold our little birds to MD Helicopter, we still hold the patent on the NOTAR technology. Howver, notice that there are no designs that incorporate NOTAR since the MD900 and MD620. It appears that the NOTAR isn't quite as nimble as an equivalent helicopter with a tail rotor, and the fenestron (enclosed tail rotor) seems to be the state of the art for such things.

The inherent safety and quietness of the NOTAR aircraft dosen't seem to make up for its disadvantages, unfortunately.

The Commanche was not a system that was replacing anything, and it is also not a system that needs a replacement.

The Commanche was an airframe that was designed during the Cold War days, when it was assumed we would have to fight in Europe.

The Commanche was a recon/attack helicopter and did not have the offensive capability of the Apache.

The money allocated to the Commanche project is going to updating the Blackhawk, which is a very good system that is in need of updating. The M program has been scrapped for the N-model, which is the total rebuilding of the Blackhawk, rather than taking existing airframes, tearing them down, modifying or replacing certain areas, and installing totally new mechanical and avionics/electrical systems.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
The Commanche was not a system that was replacing anything, and it is also not a system that needs a replacement.

The Commanche was an airframe that was designed during the Cold War days, when it was assumed we would have to fight in Europe.

Was there a helicopter being tested back then called Stallion? If not, then there's a decomissioned Commanche at the memorial park (Ft. Campbell, Ky.) One of my higher ups said they quit that program b/c too many test pilots got their heads cut off in the process.

Commanche wasn't completely scrapped, the Air Force has a squad of 17, and will continue to use them.

Shattered OUT...

Originally posted by Off_The_Street
The ARH procurement is nearing completion. Since I'm involved in it, I can't go into a lot of detail, but this much is out on the street anyway.

There are only two serious bidders, Bell and Boeing. One of the requirements is that the chosen aircraft should be as close to off-the-shelf as possible. We are proposing an MD Helicopter Little Bird (MD530), since the Army already uses them for their 160th SOAR people, and some other Secret Guys. There will be some additional packages, of course.

Bell is bidding one of their JetRanger variants, undoubtedly with some of their extra packages as well. Although the JetRanger variant lacks (in my opinion) certain characteristics the Army would like, Bell has one of the best logistics "tails" in the world, and this is an extremely important selection criterion.

Both proposals have been submitted, and the customer will probably be requesting a BAFO (best and final offer) with the final downselect and subsequent contract award in a couple of months.

Given the high number of aircraft, this procurement is extremely important for both companies.

The real winner, of course, is the US Army, since they will finally be able to get rid of the OH-58 Kiowa, one of the most horrid aircraft ever to disgrace the inventory of any military in history.

I am not really up on all the current copters the US is using. I am glad it sounds that you feel like the army will be getting a good replacement copter, but could you tell me what is bad about the OH-58 copter, and what will be so good about what it might be replaced with?

Kid, the only Stallion I know of is the Sea Stallion.

Keep in mind, I pay attention only to Sikorsky airframes. While I no longer work for them, I work on 60's for the Army and still have friends who work for them.

www.naval-technology.com...

Interesting, Shattered; do you have any info on these Commanches that the Air Force is using? I was aware of only a couple that made it off the assembly line in Strattford, and was poking around the one in testing at West Palm Beach one week before it weas announced that teh program was finally being put to sleep.

Who built these 17, and when?

Originally posted by ShatteredSkies
Commanche wasn't completely scrapped, the Air Force has a squad of 17, and will continue to use them.

Shattered OUT...

No offense, But what the hell are you talking about?, it got cancelled early last year, none are in use.