POLITICS: Blair Cracking Down on British 'Hoodies'

I didn't miss your point, I just want to show that your point is arguable.

Zip

Originally posted by Zipdot
To add: these bans aren't targetting particular age groups, they aren't targetting specific races, sexes, economic backgrounds, etc. Anybody can be a "hoodlum."

They are targetting whoever wears this gear that is associated with violence and criminality.

All of a sudden, they are saying "to get into our shopping center, you cannot wear this certain clothing, and we don't care whatever the hell else you have going on in your life or what country or planet you are from."


Zip

[edit on 6/1/2005 by Zipdot]

If they tried to apply that here in the US they would get sued big time, since discrimination for any reason based on age is illegal.

edit to add just for clarity I am talking about people lets say over 40 as and example.

[edit on 6/1/2005 by shots]

Originally posted by shots
Yes that one section related to public accomodation but you apprently read only the part you want to read.

Huh? I specifically stated that the Unruh Civil Rights Act is local Californian Law and not British law. I also used your source to show that the Unruh Civil Rights Act is a protection against "arbitrary discrimination by business owners"

Your case law also said:

There was no legitimate business reason for the refusal of service, and so the discrimination was arbitrary and unlawful.

If this Unruh Act was British law then the Bluewater case wouldnt come under arbitrary discrimination. The Bluewater Shopping Center does have a legitimate business reason for the refusal of entry, unlike the Californian restraunt that discriminated against that gay couple.

In that same vain, so is yours , or at least Bluewaters. They want to ban hoodies/caps as they obscure the face of people that commit crimes (hence why people who commit crimes wear them).

However, you could argue that Muslim woman could also commit crime, but wouldn't be able to be identified due to the hijab.

What about Sikhs? They can be quite aggressive sometimes, look at the riots over that play in Birmigham! But if they are wearing Turbans, how we gonna identify them?

But on the other hand, what about perfectly law abiding citizens, who go out to do some shopping, only to find that beacuse they have a top with a hood, some fat-arsed security guard with a little-hitler complex is gonna throw them out just because of the clothes you are wearing?

To add: these bans aren't targetting particular age groups, they aren't targetting specific races, sexes, economic backgrounds, etc. Anybody can be a "hoodlum."

Perhaps we should have an experiment if the above holds true.

We shall find a 13 yr old boy and a 40 yr old woman. Dress them both in a hooded top.

Lets see who gets chucked out...... I know who my money is on.

Originally posted by shots

Originally posted by Zipdot
To add: these bans aren't targetting particular age groups, they aren't targetting specific races, sexes, economic backgrounds, etc. Anybody can be a "hoodlum."

They are targetting whoever wears this gear that is associated with violence and criminality.

All of a sudden, they are saying "to get into our shopping center, you cannot wear this certain clothing, and we don't care whatever the hell else you have going on in your life or what country or planet you are from."


Zip

[edit on 6/1/2005 by Zipdot]

If they tried to apply that here in the US they would get sued big time, since discrimination for any reason based on age is illegal.

edit to add just for clarity I am talking about people lets say over 40 as and example.

[edit on 6/1/2005 by shots]

Shots... What part of this ban has to do with age? At all?

Sounds to me like you're prejudiced against a certain age group by assuming that this ban is intended for a certain age group!

Zip

Originally posted by Zipdot

Shots... What part of this ban has to do with age? At all?

Sounds to me like you're prejudiced against a certain age group by assuming that this ban is intended for a certain age group!

Zip

Sorry my bad I misread what you stated. I thought you said they were now basing it on age. (My wife was distracting me by talking at the time I read your post) Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[edit on 6/1/2005 by shots]

To get rid of the chav problem, arrest anyone if they are wearing any 3 of these things:

baseball cap perched on top of their head at a stupid angle
hooded top
burberry
tracksuits away from any sports facilities
reebok classics.

anyone with the crazy frog ringtone should also be sentenced to death.

Problem sovled!

anyone with the crazy frog ringtone should also be sentenced to death

I second that motion! Although my little one likes to dance to it, bless her, she is only 19 months, so I forgive her.....for now.....

The reason Blair wants to ban hoods is that his initiative to have cct cameras everywhere has failed to stop crime, hardly anyone has been prosecuted using footage from cct cameras. If he had more Police on the street he might get some results , but Blair is a complete asshole thinking grainy images of people on camera will stop crime. The Police in Britain spend more money on equipment to catch a speeding motorist than to detect a rapist or murderer, thats Britain today.

Originally posted by subz
...................
What the hell is wrong with these kids? Hoodies? no! Society? yes!

It is so easy to blame society....

if by society you mean, teen pressure, "rapper gangsta" songs that encourage kids to "act tough, to be free you must disobey society rules and cops, you can kill, harm and do anything you want to solve any problems you might have," etc, etc....if that is what you call society then yes, that's part of the problem with kids today....

The British Government not allowing the use of hoods by its citizens while the information commissioner is being blocked from launching an investigation which could force the government to release its files on the legality of British troops invading Iraq.

the Government is allowed to stonewall its citizens about the legality of going to war while telling its citizens how they can dress. Oh and by the way you are not allowed to own long knives because you might hurt yourselves.

Man is it really that bad in Britain. Is that why some of you are constantly bashing America because you cannot stand to look at what is going on in your own country. Yeah i am talking to you subz.

Man is it really that bad in Britain.

In a nutshell, no.

You have taken these two "reports" of banning knives and hoodies, and assumed them to be actual law.

Hoodies where banned in 1 shopping centre, and Blair backed it as a good idea for that shopping centre. It is not law and never will be.

Knives have been suggested to be banned by a small group of doctors who have nothing better to do. Again, it won't be made law, as it is stupid.

Here in the UK, every week, we have one group or another calling for the banning of this, that and the other. Then after a few weeks of headlines and the two sides lashing out it all goes away again. Its just the British way of doing stuff, we like to complain

[edit on 1/6/05 by stumason]

stumason, thanks for the reply. I kinda posted to this message in anger to someone else. No offense intended towards you Brits.

trust me there is no rasism involved. i have to deal with asians and whites fairly equally and with fairness, ive had to arrest both and deal with both.

I dont see skin colour all i see are idiots with nothing better to do than harass and intimidate other people for kicks.

nothing more or less.

Why couldn't the next batch of troublemakers run around in Men's Speedos?
Those are deserving of a ban.

Originally posted by rustiswordz
all i see are idiots with nothing better to do than harass and intimidate other people for kicks.

Exactly idiots with nothing better to do.

This is my whole problem with society. Maybe if people were more motivated towards community and encouraged through good media instead of bombarded with no brainer tv like big brother we might find more time and activities for these idiots to be involved in. We live in a very selfish society even though we are a charitable country.

Also someone mentioned where are the parents, [i think], the uk has an extremely fatigued workforce, where bullying and threatening with the sack is common place, parents come home from work and bring all that stress with them, this intern will rub off or effect these kids in one way or another. In my opinion.

Another opinion i have is that materialism causes problems because kids want what sometimes is not achievable for them and they don’t see it, but are instead encouraged by people that they can achieve it, but realistically, in all reality, they can not. This leads i reckon to frustration and confusion. It did for me for a while until i woke up and realised these people who encouraged me [with all good intention] were not able to council me in my faliure and offer me other answers, but i began to realize that [and thank god for clint eastwood] a man has to know his own limitations. There needs to be alternatives and reaffirmation that its ok not to achieve. That its ok just to be.

Who knows, these idiots just might suffer from common emotions like jealousy but there's no one in their lives to explain why they feel like they do. Instead there bombarded with angry lyrics and brain numbing media [tv, advertisement. THE SUN]. We need more community, and old people need to understand this to, that the answer to all their problems doesn’t lay in more police force on the streets aggravating the likes of me who only looks like he does to scare off the chavs! lol

Good post Kode. I agree with all of it.

If we invested the amount of money that has been spent in invading Iraq on improving our schools and hiring more teachers. As well as building rec centers around the country we might have a chance of reducing anti-social behaviour.

If you dont want somebody to do something, what is the best way of enforcing your will on them?

Is it smack them with a stick and berate them daily? Doesnt work unless you are willing to take it to the extreme but our democracy doesnt allow for it.

Or.

Should we give them something constructive to do with their time and give them a sense of self worth? Takes money and time from people who give a damn about these kids.

I know some people begruge the thought of spending tax payers money on things like the aforementioned but do we really have a choice? Would you rather spend the same amount of money on more police and imprisoning these kids?

I personally would rather the government takes measures to increase a sense of community and compassion rather than drag this country further down the police state line.

Interesting post and some very good debate here thanks for helping me see it from all angles. Anyhow a headteacher in Wales UK has banned hoodies now please visit

news.bbc.co.uk...

"A head teacher is banning hooded tops in a crackdown on badly-behaved pupils who use them to hide their faces"

I think this is becoming an example of a Society Meme in the UK. Shows the power of how one person with influence can change societies perceptions of a group of people by race, gender, religeon and many other 'labels'. But I never thought a hooded top would become the 'enemy' of the moment!

I just hope blair dosnt come out with his next vote winner and electorate rapport building phrase along the lines of
"People are scared now to surf their local internet, for fear of coming across something called the "truth". It seems that those ATS ers are responsible for this"

imagine not being able to go to the shops without being challenged ... quite unreal thats its happened to the 'hoodies' .. bless their cotton hoods eh! I think they should stand their ground and ask for compenstaion from the government for a new set of clothes ! On a serious note though the very Shopping Malls that are banning these people sell the very thing that they are banning? fuzzy logic if you ask me.... A bit like the arms sales trade... well sell them but if use them we will blow you up.

Maybe all the Million people who are expected to march on Scotland for the upcoming g8 summit should all wear hoodies and baseball caps that would give the anti hoodie movement something to think about? lol

Being Mischevious

Originally posted by subz
Good post Kode. I agree with all of it.

If we invested the amount of money that has been spent in invading Iraq on improving our schools and hiring more teachers. As well as building rec centers around the country we might have a chance of reducing anti-social behaviour.

If you dont want somebody to do something, what is the best way of enforcing your will on them?

Is it smack them with a stick and berate them daily? Doesnt work unless you are willing to take it to the extreme but our democracy doesnt allow for it.

Or.

Should we give them something constructive to do with their time and give them a sense of self worth? Takes money and time from people who give a damn about these kids.

I know some people begruge the thought of spending tax payers money on things like the aforementioned but do we really have a choice? Would you rather spend the same amount of money on more police and imprisoning these kids?

I personally would rather the government takes measures to increase a sense of community and compassion rather than drag this country further down the police state line.

How about telling the kids the banks are in control not the government, oh no can't do that, then they might just realise what happens when countries are indefinatley in debt, there might be a revolution, 'they' can't have that now can they.

Why is there more than double the coc aine on our streets???

Why is heroin 100% purer than it was in the 80's???

Why is cannabis stronger than it was 20 or 30 years ago???

Why is autism at an all time high???

Why did bush knock down the towers???

Why is there no cure for AIDS or cancer???

Why is prince philip who hunts animals own a world wide foundation that "suposedly" saves animals lives??? (Talk about contradiction)

Why is a drug that makes you stupid, angry, incompitent, ignorant, arrogant and causes more chaos than happiness allowed on our streets??? And no I'm not talking about the illegal stuff.

Why are nearly 13 million worldwide still in slave labor???

Why are the "Coalition of the willing" allowed to drop depleted uranium on poor men, women and children as well as our own troops???

Why is the substance that can save lives, make fuel, help pain relief, fuel creativity, activate emotional stimulation, make fibres and clothes the list continues..... Banned in most Modern countries??? (I give you a clue, its nothing to do with people getting high well partly but not the main reason).

Why, Why, Why!

There is one simple answer to every question asked the REAL question is what are YOU going to do about it!

BTW if you hadn't worked it out the answer is "MONEY"!

Why not ask the kids and teens what they think of the world??? I grew up thinking the people were in control its not till you realise who is actually in control then everything fits into place. Fighting and squabling with your government will change NOTHING. As the banks will still hold a firm grip on the economies. Only you are led to believe that economics is a complex and slow process lol. There is nothing simpler than fractional banking. Just like the answers to the above questions. GET A GRIP! The only reason why people do nothing is cos they think someone else will fix it. Thats not the case.

One last question.

Why are the kids stealing in the first place? That my friends is the root of the problem and it has NOTHING to do with boredom.

Peace

thanks subz

Originally posted by Hunting Veritas
Why are the kids stealing in the first place? That my friends is the root of the problem and it has NOTHING to do with boredom.

I disagree, it is mostly boredom and as subz said lack of self worth. Our education and social system needs to play a bigger part in their lives. People need to be paid more to work harder with the kids and young adults who find this world so disappointing that all they have is to cause agro in one way or another for enjoyment.

Its probably a different issue and subject but these kids need to be given certain privileges but it needs to be done subtly as to not encourage others to go the same way just for those privileges.

They will never outlaw hoods. It would be impossible. I wear my hood when it rains which is the only time, unless its chilly, i would use it. Sod umbrellas those things are useless especially when it’s windy and umbrellas are too easy to forget.