Why do some people feel the need to post outright lies about Masons and Masonry?

Thank you for your posts axeman, there are many who feel the same way as you do sadly. I mean, the government kills people just for the fun of it right? Even if youre flat out "crazy?" Oh I love the insanity.


When I get my copy back from a friend Ill be more than glad to get into the speciffics that the wonderful Cooper descibes.

Originally posted by The Axeman


Incidentally, a lot of the stuff he wrote about was bollocks. Like the nuclear satellite crashing into Jupiter and causing some kind of cataclysm (which obviously did not happen)... just one example.

Which, by itself, qualifies him as a false prophet.

Do you have any documentation of him being "shot in every major artery and every major joint in [his] body," or is that just conspiracy theory propaganda? I'd think that there would be sources. How did you come across this information?

There are no sources, because of course it didn't happen that way. Police were delivering warrants on Cooper for tax evasion, bank fraud, unlawful possession of weapons, and assualt and battery. Cooper refused to go peacefully and shot a deputy, after which gun fire was returned, killing him the in the process.

Originally posted by topsecretombomb
I mean, the government kills people just for the fun of it right? Even if youre flat out "crazy?" Oh I love the insanity.

Um, no, they don't kill people "for the fun of it"; they kill people who try to kill agents serving a warrant. Not exactly rocket science.

When I get my copy back from a friend Ill be more than glad to get into the speciffics that the wonderful Cooper descibes.

Patriot Crimes
Conspiracy theorist slain in police shootout

To many, William Cooper was merely a laughably paranoid, far-right conspiracy theorist. In his famous 1991 book, Behold a Pale Horse, Cooper wrote that President Kennedy was assassinated to prevent the exposure of a secret pact with space aliens.

On his shortwave radio show, Cooper argued that the U.S. government had carried out the Oklahoma City bombing and that it was using remote mind-control devices to establish a socialistic "New World Order."

As it turned out, Cooper, a one-time member of the so-called Second Continental Army of the Republic, was far more dangerous than your garden-variety conspiracy fabulist.

Before law enforcement officers served a warrant for his arrest on charges of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, Cooper E-mailed pals that "I will ... try to kill as many as I can before they kill me."

He almost succeeded. After shooting a sheriff's deputy twice in the head, Cooper was killed by police on Nov. 6. The deputy is expected to survive.

The firefight was a disastrous ending to a standoff that had begun in 1998 when federal authorities charged Cooper with tax evasion and bank fraud. Hoping to avoid a violent showdown, agents deferred serving the arrest warrant for over three years.

Then, last July, a local warrant was issued for Cooper's arrest because he allegedly had left his hilltop property to threaten a passerby with a gun.

In the 17-officer operation in November, two sheriff's deputies disguised as pickup-driving civilians tried to lure Cooper away from his house and his large stock of weapons. Cooper surprised them by driving, not walking, to come scare them off.

When the officers identified themselves, Cooper drove home and then almost killed an officer when he swerved around a roadblock erected in front of his house. He shot the other deputy as he ran from his truck to the house.

William Cooper was killed by multiple shots before he made it inside. An acquaintance of Cooper's said that the officers were lucky to get him when they did, because Cooper kept a semi-automatic AK-47 by the front door.

Intelligence Report
Spring 2002

from: www.splcenter.org...

Yeah. Wonderful guy...

reply to post by The Axeman


i think i can sum up an answere with one simple example and i appologize to those whom it may offend but take for instance fundamental cristians who believe in noah flood theory as a literal historical event, its been proven that if such a flood was to occur then the atmosphere would be so dense with humidity due to the constant evaporation that not a single liveing mammal would be able to sustain life not to mention geological records show no prbability that such a flood had ever occured, now im not throwing out the entire allegory in wich said event encompasses but i am throwing up the notion that such basic and fundamental beliefs are rooted at the most base level in what we as a species call IGNORANCE and BIAS and the problem therein is not that these people cant learn more past their current understanding the problem is they hold fast to such beliefs because they feel it would contradict their entire way of liveing should to decide to become educated. in closeing i will say this and hope it rings across to any who will understand it in its most literal sense "FEAR IS THAT WICH HALTS OF THE PROGRESSION OF THOUGHT TWARDS TRUE UNDERSTANDING" or even more simply "Fear is the mind killer"

I have to pose a question to all these anti-masonic mouthpieces. If Freemasonry is so evil, then why do they have a charity specifically to help those in need and the money is never even found to be connected to the masons (to the knowledge of those helped) ((I think it is called the Angel Charity ))?

Well give me a response to that one chaps

[edit on 8/29/2007 by Karl7772000]

One again, the usual coverup is passed around. "Serving warrants," utter crap. Ill have to find a death report somewhere and post it here, itll be hard finding it though. I dont ever remember Bill Cooper claiming to be a Prophet, never did I state that.

Bills' Murder - Robert Houghton Interviews Doyel Shamley about the events surrounding November 5th and 6th, 2001



"There was a foregone conclusion in their minds, I believe, from everything we can, all of our research we’ve done since then, there was a foregone conclusion in law enforcement didn’t want Bill to walk away from this one. So like you say, Doyel, it is very odd that they decided to do this at 11:30 at night."


Taken from:


www.hourofthetime.com...


Assassinated on the most vile Pagan holiday, November 5th.

Originally posted by topsecretombomb
One again, the usual coverup is passed around. "Serving warrants," utter crap.

Are you denying the fact that the police were serving warrants on him?

I dont ever remember Bill Cooper claiming to be a Prophet, never did I state that.

No, I didn't say you did. But Cooper *did* make prophecies in his book, and those prophecies were false.

www.hourofthetime.com...

That doesn't prove anything. First of all, the guy sounds like he doesn't know what he wasnts to say half the time, he contradicts himself at least once, stumbles around what he's saying, and he openly admits that HE WASN'T THERE WHEN COOPER WAS SHOT (How the hell would he know if the officers identified themselves or not? If he wasn't there, he wouldn't!), and then goes on to give an "eyewitness" report on what "happened."

Not only that but the host was basically leading him the whole time.

Not only that, but what he says actually more or less exactly fits the article I posted above, about how the raid went down and how they were there to serve warrants. Of course, his friend and former roommate would say the charges were "trumped up," but at the end of the day, he raised a weapon on agents, and he paid the price for it.

A conspiracy theory about the death of a conspiracy theorist... couldn't have seen that one coming...

Please.

I mean I feel for the guy's family, it's always a tragedy when people die like this, but it certainly seems that Bill Cooper was no "innocent victim."

Now if you can show some official evidence -- that is, not a radio interview with someone who is obviously biased and who was not there to see what happened -- I would be willing to look at it, and stand corrected if that be the case.

Somehow, though, I don't think that is going to happen.

Originally posted by topsecretombomb
Assassinated on the most vile Pagan holiday, November 5th.

Actually, according to the sources, it was the 6th... but what's the deal with Nov. 5th? What is the "most vile Pagan holiday?"


[edit on 8/30/07 by The Axeman]

Originally posted by The Axeman
.... but at the end of the day, he raised a weapon on agents, and he paid the price for it.

He did more than that... he shot a cop in the head.. that's kind of a "no-no" in most places.

Well first he fled from police and road block then he left his truck and ran to his house while shooting a handgun, I say he got what he deserved.
He should have shot at them after he got in his house...

reply to post by seridium


Supposedly he had a prosthetic leg... perhaps he was trying to lay suppresive fire so he could get to his more powerful weapons inside? Either way, not an innocent victim.

That was just rough article I pulled up just so everybody can have an idea of how it all happened and how much criticism and specualtion circles around the whole event.

"Now, were any of the shots that Bill fired, any of those slugs recovered, because Bill allegedly shot one of the sheriff’s deputies and apparently there was a law suit which we’ll talk about a little later. Were any of those bullets ballistically matched to Bill’s gun?

Doyel No. If it was done, I haven’t found it.

Rob Ok. So we haven’t seen that evidence, even the head shot to Officer Marinez, Deputy Marinez, there was…were there no ballistic tests done on that bullet?

Doyel There’s none in the report.

Rob Ok.

Doyel So, if they were done, they’re not published as part of the regular report, and that’s where the problem gets into, that we’ll get into later."


Ok who was saying he shot a cop in the head? Yes by all hell the whole assassination was carried out at 11:47 just humping the stroke of midnight, thats why they did it at night and waited for that exact time. All done in a Ritualistic fashion.

Originally posted by topsecretombomb
That was just rough article I pulled up just so everybody can have an idea of how it all happened and how much criticism and specualtion circles around the whole event.

[snipped quote from article]

Oh, come ON!

Think like a cop for a second -- not a bloodthirsty federal assassin -- a cop. Right in front of your face, in plain view, and in view of several other officers, you see a guy raise his weapon, fire, and then you see blood spurting from your partner's head.

Do you really think a ballistics test to match the bullet is necessary? Get real, dude. There were a bunch of cops that saw him shoot at, and hit, the officer. Why WASTE the time and resources needed to match a bullet that several people saw leave the barrel of his gun and strike an officer in the head!?

That is completely retarded. Of COURSE they didn't do a ballistics test; there was no need to! They saw him do it!

I guess you think just because he wrote a book on conspiracy theories (which you obviously have eaten up), he deserves more "due diligence" than any other common criminal who takes a pot shot at a cop, in full view of other cops?

Ppppppffffffffffffffffffffffffffffftttttttttttttttttttttttt.

Ok who was saying he shot a cop in the head?

You mean, besides every credible source I have found, not to mention your own source?

Yes by all hell the whole assassination was carried out at 11:47 just humping the stroke of midnight, thats why they did it at night and waited for that exact time.

Assassination...

Couldn't have had anything to do with strategy, eh? They knew he was armed, why would they come in the daytime when he could see them coming? Think! He had been threatening someone with a gun already!

All done in a Ritualistic fashion.

Uhhhhhhh... ok... whatever the hell THAT is supposed to mean... Let me guess: the feds were all wearing aprons and sashes?

I can see it now: "Officer Trigger-man, when about to conduct an assasination, your place about the scene?"

Give me a friggin' break.

reply to post by pepsi78


the satanic church is a sad excuse by a sad man to get some attention, good old anton, what a waste lol. im sure if he had any real so called powers hed spend a bit more on a better devil suit than the spandex one he preferred with the tiny nub horns, this god vs satan bs is a little taxing on my nerves but what do you expect from a species that has to divideing everything into two seperate hemispheres, i tell ya......silly monkies

Because Albert Pike and Manly P. Hall have both written a library's worth of books exposing the Freemasons and Illuminati for the freak shows that they truly are. Because every "tabernacle" is an insult to the Holy Bible and Christian beliefs. Because the Freemasons that have run this country have single handedly eroded and destroyed its founding principles.

Originally posted by RexxCrow
Because Albert Pike and Manly P. Hall have both written a library's worth of books...

...that I'd be willing to bet you hacve never read, save for the "quotes" one sees on Conspiracy theory websites.

Because the Freemasons that have run this country have single handedly eroded and destroyed its founding principles.

Yeah, because it makes sense for the founding fathers (a bunch of Masons) to set up this country and sacrifice in the name of a free country/system just to turn around and destroy it...

I'm sorry my friend but you have fallen victim to ugly rumors.

If you have some specific works by Pike of Hall that you would like to discuss, please share.

I'm a fairly new mason, but to be honest, I don't know of anyone who has actually read Albert Pikes "Morals and Dogma". Pike was a genius speaking several different languages and when he wrote, he used the original meaning of words, not the modern definitions. The majority of people never make it past the introduction. That book was only given to members in the Southern Jurisdiction of the Scottish Rite, those in the Northern Jurisdiction probably never heard of Pike since they are separate enities. Pike was a devout Christian and he loved the study of ancient religions.

Most of the anti mason websites only quote a few lines which can easily be taken out of context. I would recommend getting a copy of "Morals and Dogma", you can usually find it on ebay and force yourself to read all 800 some pages of it.

reply to post by mikedw


Most modern Scottish Rite historians and Masonic researchers have read and studied "Morals and Dogma". This probably accounts for only a small percentage of the overall membership, but probably a decent percentage of the actives have read the book.

It is also available to read online in its entirety here.

I do plan on joining the Scottish Rite and when I do, I'm going to read it, I personally love reading old books, the language and grammar makes them very challenging and you learn a lot.