Why do some people feel the need to post outright lies about Masons and Masonry?

Ok i didnt want to go into alot of quoting on this post, since it bogs down the database and we do enough of it as is, that having been said.

Pepsi, the cross was a holy symbol long before Yeshua (Jesus) was put to it, it was a Qabalistic symbol from as far back as Adam Qadom, and is the center of the tree of life.

Aside from that, Osiris being the god of the dead and of the underworld is totally not a evil or negative thing.. the egyptians didnt see death as an end, but as a transition, and they didnt see the underworld as the dark and evil place that other faiths see their underworld as, as such Osiris was highly revered and his work was considered to be very nessisary. so he was not an evil or negative deity, he was not wrathfull to the people, he did not spread famine or plague, he did not tempt others toward evil deeds.

You said that you cant just take alot of Egyptian symbol and myth and rewrite it to make it your own, well thats what you are doing by trying to put Osiris in the catagory of "evil gods"

And whats more.. the fact that pagans worshipped him in irrelevant, catholics worship the same god as the jews, but jews and catholics are very much different cultures.

Lastly... run your posts through a spell check before you post them, and avoid using such things as "U'r". Most people here read and write at a college level and dont give alot of weight to people that use poor grammer and cant spell, not trying to slam you for bad grammer or spelling, but i assume you wish you be taken seriously here

[edit on 30-10-2005 by Becon of Light]

Religion to me is the most idiotic thing, i explained it before in one of my posts.
Religion creates wars people kill over it.
Religion does not represent god.
Simbols does not represent god.
So bolth of the sides are rong, i am the 3 side
To folow god you dont need simbols you dont need religion you dont need to know how he looks you dont need to think that the world started from egipt or other place,you dont need to asociate objects and simbols to him
I dont need rituals to get to god.
I am sure god created this world and it spins in a way so i trust god it spins right.
All you need is to be good inside of you and that will always lead you to god.

I am sure god exists i would simply base that on the laws of the universe
and it's mecanism and how things work out there and it could not hapen random simply cause the universe too big and we are not even microbes has size compared to it.

I belife you think difrent and i belife in freedom what wories me are u'r teachings and would worry that you might impose them to others just cause you think it's the right thing.
order out of chaos is not my belif
I belife egipt is the reason and it's teachings

You see to paint buildings inside with difrent simbols that i think it represents god is insaine.
Cant you see that you guys have a obsesion with simbols and with order
it is just like in ancient egipt.
God is not about that, god is not about doing things mechanicly just cause it says so.
I would help some one not cause it says some where or not cause some guy said it a 3000 years ago.
You are simply like a bunch of little robots programmed .
If god wanted to create robots he would of done it but it was not his idea.
Nwo is exactly what it says it is a order based on some teachings we are heading to a milenium of deshumanisation.

Moral principals are always ahead of society morals and that's how it should be.
new world (order) this is what it realy means so think now before it's to late





[edit on 30-10-2005 by pepsi78]

[edit on 30-10-2005 by pepsi78]

Religion does not start wars.... people do.. plan and simple, religion is simply a convienient excuse. But this is not the place for such debate, this is the "Why do some people feel the need to post outright lies about masons and masonry" thread, not the "What pepsi thinks about religion" thread

1 alot of masonic simbols point to horus and orisis not one but many of them so people will suspect that you worship them and it's justificated.
2 orisis and horus dont fit with crestianity
3 simbols even if they are not worshiped they have a meaning and means something has a simbol to you.


Here beacon of light
Inside knight templar.

This is beiond religion, this i do not know what to add simply,
is it a grave yard? a lodge? i would not want to be stuck there
and i dont think any of you would

I dont see anything good in this picture beacon of light why would anybody
make such things and put it in to a building of a fraternity.
It is simply disturbing.


Here you see felow masons holding hands you would say okay.



I know i posted this picture before but i want to make a link with the one above.
Here is the same thing only this time they are wareing robes and have hoods over their heads they are holding hands and form a circle just like the picture above, the place was cleared miles so no one would see it
location:stone hange

I dont want to hear from you ohh no we arent doing religion we just dress
up in strange robes with our faces coverd and hold our hands
and go in circle ohh no this is not religion, it will be absurde
to answer that.



Dont be so smart with me.
Do you want me to play hard ball with you beacon of light? or just have a nice converation?
I'll just have to surface all i know or i could just talk polite with you like a polite debate and nothing more.

Originally posted by pepsi78

orisis and horus dont fit with crestianity

You are one mixed up dude.
One minute you're saying that religion is evil and the next you are using it to defend your point. You can't have it both ways. It's illogical. A positive and a negative do not make another positive do they?
It's impossible to use a positive in religion to attack another group of people if you have a negative position regarding religion yourself. It just leaves you with the negative of hypocrisy.

My suggestion to you is to go away and read about religions. Read about how they started, how they interlock - basically get yourself some basic grounding in Theology. As it is, all you are doing here is putting your ignorance of the subject on display. You can't argue about a soccer game if you don't know the rules of soccer can you? Religion is much the same - you can't use it in an argument if you don't have some basic understanding of it.

Debate is a skill. You must have some sort of knowledge and a logical argument to be able to pursue it. It's sadly quite plain that you have neither.

This isn't a flame. It's plain fact and goodness to honest advice. Go read up on the subject that you are using for your debate. Go make your mind up which angle you want to attack it from. Until you do both of these two things, you are only succeeding in making yourself look foolish.

I am not defending by that and do not know what you mean.
This is not about me it is about masonery and does not matter what i think of religion.
I was just stateting what i think of religion, but this is about if u'r ling or not , not if religion is god or bad.
So the thing is if your ling or not.
If i think religion is bad? whats that got to do with the fact if u'r ling or not?
I think your tryng to change the subject.
Why dont you explain so we can get a opinion of my former post.
And remember this is not about me so why should i be defending my self
i dont see your point.

One minute you're saying that religion is evil and the next you are using it to defend your point

You said it your self so if you are doing religion with your felow masons it's worse if it's some ocult stuff that dates back to aincient egipt, if it's just religion of the regular curch i dont care every one is free to do it and i dont judje people for it ,but i guess it is not regular when the images speak for them selfs .
I think your evoiding my post by tryng to change the subject.
Just look at that picture you know that one with alot of skeletons and cofen
and altar of the doomed.
You said you keep your bibles in the altar is that where you keep them
i cant imagine how the bible and that thing would get along.
Just look at the picture and tell me what posible good positive efect do you see in it.
It is amesing i must tell you, one lliving in ignorance when the evidence speaks for its self.
There is no reasoning with you, you are one of the kind and denny pure evidence.
I dont even care what you do there, you know that thing with i'll respect your privacy and you will respect my"i dont think it is going to hapen with you guys since this is a big thing and you wont leave people alone.
Obsesion with order obsesion to make people think like you.
Wake up people know already.
But you know something it's not worth it when i can do something else
something nicer.
..............................................................I quit




[edit on 30-10-2005 by pepsi78]

Originally posted by pepsi78
...you wont leave people alone.
Obsesion with order obsesion to make people think like you.

Funny, that sounds just like what you are doing...

Oh and Crusader... That was the most pitiful response I have ever gotten to a post. Congratulations on your warning. Next time maybe you can respond like an adult...

[edit on 10/30/05 by The Axeman]

Originally posted by Becon of Light

Lastly... run your posts through a spell check before you post them, and avoid using such things as "U'r". Most people here read and write at a college level and dont give alot of weight to people that use poor grammer and cant spell, not trying to slam you for bad grammer or spelling, but i assume you wish you be taken seriously here (period?)

[edit on 30-10-2005 by Becon of Light]

eksacktly,

EDIT: I've been deducted 20 points for a one line post. The system is broken.

FYI: If anyone does anything like this in the future, DO NOT QUOTE and USE BOLD. Instead, LIST the mistakes. This would have made my post SEVEN LINES. And masons know all about the 7s.

[edit on 30-10-2005 by 2nd Hand Thoughts]

[edit on 30-10-2005 by 2nd Hand Thoughts]

Oh and Crusader... That was the most pitiful response I have ever gotten to a post. Congratulations on your warning. Next time maybe you can respond like an adult...

Maybe it was offending to Masons, Oh yes I regret I made such a statement.. But Here this, what about those statements aren't they truth or falsehood? If you answer that i may rest my case. and Please present your answers with documented evidence. as pepsi have provided you all with some pictures depicting Masonry

Originally posted by crusader

Oh and Crusader... That was the most pitiful response I have ever gotten to a post. Congratulations on your warning. Next time maybe you can respond like an adult...

Maybe it was offending to Masons, Oh yes I regret I made such a statement.. But Here this, what about those statements aren't they truth or falsehood?

I wasn't offended. I got a good chuckle as I do from MOST of your posts.

I'll state why below.

But by all means let's examine the statements.

If you answer that i may rest my case. and Please present your answers with documented evidence.

OK, what's your mailing address and I'll send you some actual books on the subject. I've said it many times, there is a lot of good info on the internet, but face facts...a "Google search" is NOT legitimate research.

as pepsi have provided you all with some pictures depicting Masonry

No, he have [sic] provided us with a picture of a scene from one of MANY degrees that is intended to remind man of his MORTALITY (hence the emblems of death)


He provided a picture of the "Chain of Union" (an impressive Masonic ceremony representing Brotherhood and NOT what pepsi insinuated)

And for some silly reason he threw in a neo-Druid thing going on at Stonehenge which has NOTHING to do with Masonry.

Masonry did not descend from egypt..

Maybe. Maybe not. No one REALLY knows, but many of it's traditions are BASED upon Egyptian mysteries as are many CHRISTIAN traditions...a subject far too deep to get into on THIS forum, believe me.

Masonry is a mixture of some garbled nonsense..

Actually no. However thank you for quoting part of the apology I posted earlier. The "garbled nonsense" I was referring to, however was the silly things another list-member kept repeating while refusing to listen to anything sensible.

Masonry discrimnates.. against women.

Uhhh...nope. Ever heard of Co-Masonry or Le Droit Humain?

www.comasonic.org...

Some of the Co-Masonic groups are ALL women in fact

(HEY! isn't that discriminating against men????)

How about the Order of the Eastern Star?

phaglmo.org...

How about the Ancient Toltec Rite (sorry for the shameless plug. Yes, the author is ol' Senrak, himself, but I post this to make a point)

www.srmason-sj.org...

How about the Order of the Amaranth?

www.amaranth.org...

Daughters of the Nile

www.donhq.org...

The list goes on....Job's Daughters, Rainbow for Girls, Order of Sunbeams, Queen of the South, Heroines of Jericho, Daughters of Isis, &c. &c.

Masonry practces sodomy....

No. It doesn't. I'd swear to that in court if necessary, as would countless others.

However that statement SURE tells me a LOT about crusader, doesn't it? I wonder what he's REALLY "crusading" for....

Originally posted by crusader
Maybe it was offending to Masons, Oh yes I regret I made such a statement.. But Here this, what about those statements aren't they truth or falsehood? If you answer that i may rest my case. and Please present your answers with documented evidence. as pepsi have provided you all with some pictures depicting Masonry

Heheh.

Dude, get with the program. How can we prove something that didn't happen didn't happen by providing documentation that would only exist had it happened?!?!

If you want to press the position that Masonry does or teaches what you say it does, then the burden of proving that is on you; not on us to prove that we don't. Once again your logic fails you.

May I redirect your attention to my previous post, which you completely ignored:

Originally posted by The Axeman

Originally posted by crusader
Well axeman I have read and researched alot, and what i came up with was mountains of dirt, and piling evidence sjky high about freemasonry, that you all seem to know about but refuse to acknowledge it.

You have provided nothing of the sort here. I'd be interested to see just what kind of reading and "research" you have done on the subject. You seem to be lacking a fundamental understanding of what Masonry is and what it is about. Not that you are the only one, but you are the only one right now who is stomping and hollering "Masons are evil! Masons are deceptive! Mason are this or Masons are that!" All the while providing no verifyable information to back that position up.

You know, I'm easy to get along with, I'll tell you what; No need to post a plethora of information or websites, quotes from books on the subject or anything like that. Right here, right now, I challenge you to present, in your own words, WHY you hate Freemasonry so much. I want a thought out, reasonable explanation of why you think Masons and Masonry are the things you claim. Don't regurgiutate (and I will be able to tell, 'cause I've seen it all by now), but explain to me why it is that you feel the way you do. So far all you've done is make accusations with no apparent foundation. You say you've read and researched the subject and claim to have a "pile of evidence," so let's hear it. Make your case, Mr. Prosecutor.

yeah..... dude.

get with the program.
errr, snap out of it.
i mean, pull it together already...
... dot your eyes.
cross your tees.
speak betta english..
say something that means something.

by all means, dont waste your time arguing the pointless. whether your logic be completely solid in your own head or not, those with whom you would debate it - are set in their ways. just as you are in yours. myself, i may or may not agree with you, but for the life of me cannot filter through the articulation.

no life without death, no death without life; maybe they have a point?...

zombies for life! now who's with me??!!


-point taken?


[edit on 31-10-2005 by lost]

Originally posted by pepsi78

Dont be so smart with me.
Do you want me to play hard ball with you beacon of light? or just have a nice converation?
I'll just have to surface all i know or i could just talk polite with you like a polite debate and nothing more.

Go ahead... post everything you got.. i could care less.. i'm not a mason, but i am sure the fellas here would love to see what you got, and the sooner you post it the sooner they can prove you wrong

Is there a Masonic conspiracy to make this thread the longest in ATS history?
This thing should have ended a year ago. And besides who's posting lies anyhow? I'm sure all the Anti- Masons didn't just dream up all the stuff they write about Masons.

No. It doesn't. I'd swear to that in court if necessary, as would countless others.

Well it does, according to factual accounts and testimonies by former masons, documented evidence. what Am I crusading for? certainly not gay marriages, sodomy, or interacial marriages, i am crusading for Morality, and accountability, and to let the truth out. Deny Ignorance!

Originally posted by crusader
Well it does, according to factual accounts and testimonies by former masons, documented evidence. what Am I crusading for? certainly not gay marriages, sodomy, or interacial marriages, i am crusading for Morality, and accountability, and to let the truth out. Deny Ignorance!

WHAT accounts? WHAT documented evidence? I'm not a former Mason...I'm an ACTUAL Mason and NOTHING of the sort goes on in legitimate Masonry. NOTHING.

Crusading for morality you say? By spreading untruth?

What do gay marriages or interacial marriages have to do with the subject? Masonry has nothing to do with this?

Apparently it's the government you're crusading against, not a Fraternity that teaches "Friendship, Morality and Brotherly Love"

Deny ignorance indeed!

About the pictures posted earlier:

All the death imagery and so forth is compelling to research and comment upon. But lest anyone get too wrapped up in it one way or the other about purity or impurity, it's still pretty funny to imagine the guy putting everything away at the end of the night. Think he ever drops a skeleton on the floor and swears at it? Those things look a little unruly. I bet he goes outside for a smoke afterward.

The skeletons probably have "names". As in "Dag nabbit! Charlie never stands up straight! I've about had it with that skinny bugger!"


[edit on 31-10-2005 by 2nd Hand Thoughts]

second hand thoughts,

your post holds more sense then any post in the last 15 pages. thanks.



oh, and boo masonry. why? -because its a lame excuse for the betterment of ones morality..... lies spread about it? maybe - maybe not... why bother arguing about it? -because a coupla sniffles here and there from idiots and more idiots who claim theyre gonna set everything straight - some real crusaders for justice, in their adamant ~denying of ignorance~ gonna teach the internet the truth about their secret society. ha!

omg, its ludicrous. how old do you have to be to join again.... like twelve?

oh, and boo masonry. why? -because its a lame excuse for the betterment of ones morality..... lies spread about it? maybe - maybe not... why bother arguing about it? -because a coupla sniffles here and there from idiots and more idiots who claim theyre gonna set everything straight - some real crusaders for justice, in their adamant ~denying of ignorance~ gonna teach the internet the truth about their secret society. ha!

are you all negleting the testimonies of former Masons? Or are you oblivious to the fact?

www.scripturesforamerica.org...

oh looky here, another link... mmm, goody.

as far as im concerned its just more 'he said - she said'

or should i say 'HE said HE said'


edit:

crusader, i looked at the link - and it is one i can agree with. but it doesnt matter. there will be another 'masonry?' thread next week, which basically boils down to masons vs. non - masons disputing the ~facts~...

bottom line: if you join a secret society, better expect as many secrets told to you, to be KEPT FROM you. esoteric indeed.

[edit on 1-11-2005 by lost]