Why do some people feel the need to post outright lies about Masons and Masonry?

Originally posted by crusader
Hmm, Masons do claim to have and possess ancient estoric knowledge, that the masses fail to grasp.

Not exactly, as far as I know...

There are certain concepts to Masonry, which some will fail to grasp, according to Pike. Of course, by "grasp" he could be referring to the fact tah while Freemasonry, and more specifically the Scottish Rite, as that is where Pike's greatest influence is felt as a result of his work therein, teaches and embraces certain principles and ideas that, if not followed, could be misunderstood. I take this to mean that the real secret of Freemasonry is not for the "unwashed masses," who might actually be Masons, but fail to follow its precepts; in other words the ones who will experience and learn the true secret of Freemasonry are those select few who are willing an able to live by the laws of Masonry, which are, quite simply, to follow the Moral Law. Just because a man is a Mason, doesn't automatically make him a good Mason. Was that clear enough?

The idea that all is a brotherhood is a fallacy to me, because there still separation and degrees in Masonry.

I fear you grossly misunderstand the structure of Freemasonry, and I have already explained this several times. Check some of the older threads.

Why don't Masons of Freemasonry, the most evil, devile organization , after Hitler's Thule society, change their name to Bondsmen? Because that's what they are... Not so? They are trapped in bondage

Rubbish.

I simply will sustain my opinion simply because:

1 Connection to acient egipt, eye and piramid is a simbol for acient egiptians, masons have the same simbol.

2 The sun for acients egiptians represented the eye of god for masons it represents the same has a simbol.

3 Eagle nest natzi bunker had the piramid and the eye on it has a simbol
and in general hitler and himler where obsest with the ocult.

4 Supreme Council of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite
I can really see what the word "ancient has to do with egipt"
you have altars in lodges and a altar it's self is all about religion
and i ask you when was masoneri founded.

5 in the 17 Degree of the Scottish Rite is "Abaddon" angel of the bottomless pit, mentioned in Revelation 9:11 in the bible

6 The Mysteries of Magic page 428:
Masonic book
The book says.
What is more absurd and more impious than to attribute the name of Lucifer to the devil, that is, to personified evil, The intellectual Lucifer is the spirit of intelligence and love; it is the Paraclete, it is the Holy Spirit, while the physical Lucifer is the great agent of universal magnetism.
End of paragraf.
Masons dont belive that lucifer represents the devil, and i would like u'r opinion simply answer if bapomet is good or bad in u'r opinion i dont want you to explain him to me i just want you to answer if you personaly think if he is good or bad figure.


As long as there will be qestions like this ones senrak and you or u'r felow masons cant explain them 100% and people are not satisfied with the answers people will just keep coming in here and post anti-masonic posts
cause of the suspicion it atracts and it's justified.

To proof that this brotehrhood is not involved in such things it is in u'r best intrest that masons try to proof that they are not about this, you have not proofed that masons are not involved in such things, and you say that we have to proof i thought that a mason image represents something to you
and yet you state we dont have to proof anything than anti-masonic posts will keep comeing.
You will have to proof and not us the other side that masons are not involved in this, it is u'r masonic image after all and people will think it is true as long has you dont do anything.









[edit on 28-10-2005 by pepsi78]

[edit on 28-10-2005 by pepsi78]

I have to disagree to some extent Pepsi, the eye of the horus is an symbolic good luck, symbol, nothing masonry about it, the egyptians were never masons. also the fact of the matter just like the nazis use the swatiska, which was a hindu good luck symbol, so has masonry done the same to ancient egypt to a certain extent.


axeman, you still haven't come clean.... Masonry has not proven that bit's not what many say it is, it's deceptive and not forthcoming in it's response , and that show s it's true colours

Crusaider i may agree with you on the zwastica but not with the eye.
I have seen what it says in enciclopedia about it, it is defined has god
so i have seen it with my eyes it is the eye of egiptian god, the eye was waching over them it was all seeing and it is on the top of piramid dicribed
Further more the eye brings enlightment has it says it has to do with the sun the sun is bright it brings enightment has they would pary to it.
Masons say they dont pray to it but their simbols state the same.
It says it in the enciclopedia so i didint grab this on some conspiracy site i know for a fact.




[edit on 28-10-2005 by pepsi78]

Originally posted by pepsi78
Crusaider i may agree with you on the zwastica but not with the eye.
I have seen what it says in enciclopedia about it, it is defined has god
so i have seen it with my eyes it is the eye of egiptian god, the eye was waching over them it was all seeing and it is on the top of piramid dicribed
Further more the eye brings enlightment has it says has it has to do with the sun the sun is bright it brings enightment has they would pary to it.
Masons say they dont pray to it but their simbols state the same.
It says it in the enciclopedia so i didint grab this on some conspiracy site i know for a fact.


The masonry has nothing to do with ancient egypt, my friend, i thought so until I studied it, my great grandfather was a mason, a grand master as such, how foolish of him, anyway... Christianity if that where u coming from is very diffrent that what is practised by the Coptics, and all the lore of Horus..


[edit on 28-10-2005 by pepsi78]

I dont know crusaider but i know how it is descriebed in the book.
I do trust the source of enciclopedia.
So bring a argument that it's not like this and from where do you know it.

Originally posted by pepsi78
As long as there will be qestions like this ones senrak and you or u'r felow masons cant explain them 100%

Who says we can't? Maybe we're just not. Maybe because as a non-Mason, it's really NONE of your business. Hmm??

and people are not satisfied with the answers people will just keep coming in here and post anti-masonic posts

Dissatisfaction....ah....tis' but human nature I suppose. Again, if they're not Masons why would we care if they're not satisfied?

cause of the suspicion it atracts and it's justified.

You're a really bored fellow, aren't you...

To proof that this brotehrhood is not involved in such things it is in u'r best intrest that masons try to proof that they are not about this,

Why is that? We've been around for hundreds of years and haven't had to answer to the likes of you. Why would it be in our "best interest"? Just because YOU don't understand it or you're "dissatisfied" [shrug]

You will have to proof and not us the other side that masons are not involved in this, it is u'r masonic image after all and people will think it is true as long has you dont do anything.

Again, why do we have to prove it? Why should we care if the ignorant mass prefers to remain ignorant? Ignorance is after all...bliss, ya' know?

your arrogance have proven without a doubt, that masonry is deceptive it lies, and not only that it does not improve the character of men.

[edit on 28-10-2005 by crusader]

Originally posted by pepsi78
I dont know crusaider but i know how it is descriebed in the book.
I do trust the source of enciclopedia.
So bring a argument that it's not like this and from where do you know it.

You see crusader....if you print it in a book and stamp "Encyclopedia" on it...ol' Pepsi will BELIEVE it.

I guess I should send him Mackey's Encyclopedia of Freemasonry. Maybe he'll learn some TRUTH about Freemasonry and stop spreading lies.

Originally posted by senrak

Originally posted by pepsi78
I dont know crusaider but i know how it is descriebed in the book.
I do trust the source of enciclopedia.
So bring a argument that it's not like this and from where do you know it.

You see crusader....if you print it in a book and stamp "Encyclopedia" on it...ol' Pepsi will BELIEVE it.

I guess I should send him Mackey's Encyclopedia of Freemasonry. Maybe he'll learn some TRUTH about Freemasonry and stop spreading lies.

For real, that's where most people trust, just like they trust the mainstreaM MEDIA TOTALLY.

Originally posted by pepsi78
Masons dont belive that lucifer represents the devil, and i would like u'r opinion simply answer if bapomet is good or bad in u'r opinion i dont want you to explain him to me i just want you to answer if you personaly think if he is good or bad figure.

Nobody who has studied the history of the Bible or the scripture therein can logically believe that Lucifer is the devil. The name Lucifer is mentioned only once (in Isiaiah) and it refers to a Babylonian prince - not Satan.
The name Lucifer was a mistranslation by a guy named Jerome who made a Bible known as The Vulgate (for centuries predecessing the KJV it was classed as THE Bible.
Study up or use the search function here and you will be able to find out more about this error. It is a little known fact that Satan is not Lucifer and over the years it has come to be forgotten. Lucifer only really took off as satan with John Milton's poem - "A Paradise Lost".

As for Baphomet, the devil, satan or whatever you want to call him? No. No Freemason I know of follows it/him/or whatever you want to call the concept. An evil deity totally goes against the Principles of Freemasonry.

[edit on 28-10-2005 by Leveller]

Let me get this straight...

Yet you call an organization (that you're NOT a member of) and I've dedicated years of study to "deceptive"? You say it lies?

Where? When? How?

TELL ME crusader, HOW has Masonry lied? Don't point to David Icke...don't point to freemasonwatch.com or any of that BS. Tell me how Masonry has LIED...how it has DECEIVED. No speculation, either.

You stated that as fact.....BACK IT UP WITH FACT!

NO ONE on this forum ever has.

Be the first.

[edit on 28-10-2005 by senrak]

[edit on 28-10-2005 by senrak]

Maybe freemasonry is diffrent from Satanism, but still it's deceptive... Anyhow. The bible especially KJV is full of errors. you need to read the ancient text to see what God really says.

But you still worship something other than God, Lucifer.

Originally posted by crusader
Maybe freemasonry is diffrent from Satanism, but still it's deceptive... Anyhow. The bible especially KJV is full of errors. you need to read the ancient text to see what God really says.

But you still worship something other than God, Lucifer.

*sigh*
Then if the Bible is full of errors, how do you know that you aren't worshipping Satan?

Gee. You're not the brightest candle in the box, are you?

Originally posted by crusader
Maybe freemasonry is diffrent from Satanism, but still it's deceptive... Anyhow. The bible especially KJV is full of errors. you need to read the ancient text to see what God really says.

But you still worship something other than God, Lucifer.

crusader...how ridiculous is that? You say I worship Lucifer? You don't KNOW me.

Talk about arrogant.

I am (for your information) a very devout Trinitarian Christian. I worship my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Further I'm a Eucharistic Minister in the Episcopal Church.

I have never worshiped "Lucifer" or Satan or the Devil.

NOR have I ever WORSHIPPED at a Masonic meeting...and I've been to several thousand through the years.

Give me a break. Now YOU'RE trolling like coke err...Pepsi or whatever his name is

Originally posted by senrak

Originally posted by pepsi78

Who says we can't? Maybe we're just not. Maybe because as a non-Mason, it's really NONE of your business. Hmm??

Maybe is not inoff and about the busines see what this forum is all about.

Dissatisfaction....ah....tis' but human nature I suppose. Again, if they're not Masons why would we care if they're not satisfied?

So you only care about u'r self and giving money and helping people is just
for the eye of the public, just look at your quote.in u'r opinion has you say
"human nature I suppose" so the rest of the people are just pices of trash

You're a really bored fellow, aren't you...

Senrak i'm here to debate look on what this forum is about

Why is that? We've been around for hundreds of years and haven't had to answer to the likes of you. Why would it be in our "best interest"? Just because YOU don't understand it or you're "dissatisfied" [shrug]

It's not only me i'm not the only one that is asking

Again, why do we have to prove it? Why should we care if the ignorant mass prefers to remain ignorant? Ignorance is after all...bliss, ya' know?

So u'r sayng the rest of humanity is dumb and are just caws and trash


My conclusions senrak and i dont want to insult you but you are a arogant man and claim you are a 32 degree mason, than i dont see how masons are above the rest and i say this on what you post, i thought masonari
is all about makeing a man better and kinder.





[edit on 28-10-2005 by pepsi78]

[edit on 28-10-2005 by pepsi78]

Originally posted by pepsi78
Maybe is not inoff and about the busines see what this forum is all about.

No. This forum is about conspiracy. Not minding other peoples business.

So you only care about u'r self

No. I never said that. Those are YOUR words, not mine.

and giving money and helping people is just for the eye of the public,

No. As a matter of fact, MOST of what we do for others is never publicized. We don't do it for the glory, but for the satisfaction of giving.

so the rest of the people are just pices of trash

Nope. I never said that. YOU did. Don't put words in my mouth.

Senrak i'm here to debate look on what this forum is about

Then debate and stop trolling (or at least learn the difference)

So u'r sayng the rest of humanity is dumb and are just caws and trash

Nope. Once again, you're putting words into my mouth.

My conclusions senrak and i dont want to insult you but you are a arogant man

I'm crushed. Utterly crushed.

and claim you are a 32 degree mason,

Yep. Received the 32nd Degree on June 01, 1991 and the K.C.C.H. on October 3, 2001. What of it?

than i dont see how masons are above the rest and i say this on what you post, i thought masonari
is all about makeing a man better and kinder.

Let me get this straight....

You call me a devil-worshipper and I'm supposed to be kind to you???? You say I'm a liar and I'm supposed to be kind to you????
You say the organization I've labored in for years is evil and I'm supposed to be kind to you????

How confusing....

as for Masons being above the rest and the 32nd degree, you lack a fundamental understanding of the structure of Freemasonry. I won't bore you with explanation, it's been discussed here before. Do a search.

PLEASE




[edited out the quoted posts' edit tags -nygdan]

[edit on 30-10-2005 by Nygdan]

Originally posted by Leveller

Originally posted by pepsi78
Masons dont belive that lucifer represents the devil, and i would like u'r opinion simply answer if bapomet is good or bad in u'r opinion i dont want you to explain him to me i just want you to answer if you personaly think if he is good or bad figure.

Nobody who has studied the history of the Bible or the scripture therein can logically believe that Lucifer is the devil. The name Lucifer is mentioned only once (in Isiaiah) and it refers to a Babylonian prince - not Satan.
The name Lucifer was a mistranslation by a guy named Jerome who made a Bible known as The Vulgate (for centuries predecessing the KJV it was classed as THE Bible.
Study up or use the search function here and you will be able to find out more about this error. It is a little known fact that Satan is not Lucifer and over the years it has come to be forgotten. Lucifer only really took off as satan with John Milton's poem - "A Paradise Lost".

As for Baphomet, the devil, satan or whatever you want to call him? No. No Freemason I know of follows it/him/or whatever you want to call the concept. An evil deity totally goes against the Principles of Freemasonry.

[edit on 28-10-2005 by Leveller]

So you say that bapomet is good?
And lucifer is good?
simply answer yes or no for each of them can you do that?

here let me make it simple

A= good (something positive or something that does not harm or something that is not negative)
B=bad (a negative caracter)

1 [A lucifer is good] [B lucifer bad]
2 [A bapomet is good] [B bapomet is bad]
This are simple qestions and i just want your opinion.
There can be no middle answer so you can not say oo he is some where in betwen.
Please answer me so i can understand i am not trying to ridicule you and am not tryng to trick you.
So please answer to it.
So there is no confusion answer with a or b to each of them.
The simplicity will get a clear opinion so there will be no missunderstanding.

[edit on 28-10-2005 by pepsi78]

[edit on 28-10-2005 by pepsi78]

[edit on 28-10-2005 by pepsi78]

Originally posted by crusader
axeman, you still haven't come clean.... Masonry has not proven that bit's not what many say it is, it's deceptive and not forthcoming in it's response , and that show s it's true colours

Here's a news flash for you, are you ready?

MOST people don't have a problem with Freemasonry. To most people we are what we are, a fraternity that builds character and does good things for the community; always has, always will. The lunatic fringe, however, seem to see Masonry in an altogether different light than most reasonable people. Not to say anyone here is lunatic fringe, *ahem* but let's just say people that hold your viewpoint are in the minority.

Furthermore, the burden of proof lies with the accuser, not the accused. So we have no reason to try to prove anything to you. You cannot prove a negative. Logic 101.

Until you can prove ( ) that we are what you say we are or whatever, your're just S.O.L. buddy.

Axe man can any of you of the brotherhood of masonari answer the post above regarding lucifer so i can get a opinion.

[edit on 28-10-2005 by pepsi78]