Why do some people feel the need to post outright lies about Masons and Masonry?

Originally posted by Robmoren
Read "Morals and Dogma of Freemasonary" by Albert Pike and you will learn that Lucifer is thier GOD.

(Ahem) BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!

...now that that's over....tell us PLEASE....WHERE (cite the exact book and page) in Pike's "Morals & Dogma" where it says that. Prove what you're saying. If you're right (which you're not) I'll gladly admit it.

I have an online copy if you want a copy.

I have an original 1871 first edition with Pike's signature in it....but it still does not say that Lucifer is the God of Freemasonry.

YOu could also check out "The History of Freemasonary and its Legendary Origins"

Ah, let's stick the word "legendary" in just as a stab? Very nice.

BY Albert Mackey A 32 degree freemason.

Uhm...actually Albert Gallatin Mackey was a 33rd Degree Scottish Rite Mason and a Masonic Knight Templar and held quite a few other Masonic titles, but we'll not get into that.

I'm asking you Robmoren....BOOK AND PAGE in Morals & Dogma where Pike says Freemasons worship Lucipher. It simply isn't there.

In the mean-time since you want people to read something on-line that doesn't exist....try two things. First, do an ATS search (it's really easy) for this same silly topic which has been debunked several times by thinking people on this list and second, (and this is for the couple of posters who are convinced that Lucipher is Satan, read this:

www.masonicinfo.com...

and this:

www.srmason-sj.org...

Originally posted by senrak
I have an original 1871 first edition with Pike's signature in it....but it still does not say that Lucifer is the God of Freemasonry.

1871 edition AND signed? thats awesome Sen, i only have the 1946 edition.. but it still very nice and one of my most treasured books aside from my first edition "A Study in Karma" by annie besant from 1918, as a mason i am sure you know that she was a theosophist and often Co-wrote with the british mason C.W. Leadbeater.

but we're getting side tracked.. Again.. as i have, and many others before me stated. Lucifer (in biblical context) is a product of poor translation.
and in classical context is the latin achtyoe for the greek achetype venus (venus being greek for the morningstar.. that being the sun, it should be noted that in no way was venus considered to have been fallen from grace, or anything else)

Masons know this.. which is why it would be laughable that people think that they worship the devil based on this idea, if not for the fact that the world seek to condem them for it

As far as morals and dogma, i got it.. i read it.. havent seen anything about lucifer being the "one true god"

My point is being missed altogether but I've deffinitely said my peace. Becon, I'm not trying to be an arse but I don't really care about the particular "tranlation issues" you brought up. The points you make are indeed enlightening but they still don't change the point I was making and everyone reading this knows Who Jesus is. I have no problems calling Him Yeshua either.

If you were to try and tell me that the alah that's mentioned in the koran is the same One that I speak of, you are mistaken. (That debate is -deffinitely- for another thread)


In the world today there are many religions or (spritual references). As Einstein might say it's "all relative". Which reference are you choosing? I urge you all to choose wisely as this choice is the most important one you will ever make and has eternal ramifications. It also irritates me greatly that people put the Bible on the same level as all their other "references". The Gospel is called the Gospel for a reason, do you know why?

Jusus or Yeshua as you you like to call him, was "the Word made flesh" or God Himself. Alot of people can't get their head around this but I guess they couldn't understand ice is another form of water unless they had "seen" it melting with their own eyes.

Got made it clear in the Bible. I am the I AM. I Am The ONE and only true GOD and there are NONE beside ME.

It's clear to me folks, hopefully you all will figure it out for yourselves as well and soon.

You guys are focusing too much on translation issues. Even though this is important there is something else FAR more pressing you should be spending your energy on. What is that you ask? Spritual discernment.

Consider the following scripture as I feel it applys here greatly:


1co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

1co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

1co 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

[edit on 20-10-2005 by TxSecret]

Originally posted by TxSecret
Most people today equate satan/lucifer with the devil. There is more than one name used for the "evil one" in the Bible but the fact remains he is the devil.. PERIOD.

Interpretations of words and names, such as lucifer, must be done in the context of the author that wrote the text in question, not in the wishful context of the reader. Whether most people today equate lucifer with satan/devil is a meaningless fantasy if the author did not intend it in that manner and such an interpretation is just plain WRONG.

Ok.. Why do some people think that masons worship the devil? I answered that in my last post.. READ IT.

We knew why this is so long before you ever typed a single word in an ATS forum. It is because certain individuals insist on misquoting Pike's use of the name lucifer and twist its usage in a manner that was not intended by Brother Pike. Ive read your post(s) and they add nothing to the discussion that has not been covered previously.

I do not generally post much in the secret socities forums very often as I grow weary at rehashing the same old lies and distortions that are repeated in posts such as yours.
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[edit on 20-10-2005 by df1]

Uh, Masons, I'm assuming you don't mean the guys who do Bricklaying and such...

I am not very sure about all this, but aren't these the guys from Bohemian Grove and such? Use to work for the Catholic Church to slaughter entire cities of people because one or two would prove the Earth is round or wasn't the center? Weren't they the ones who destroyed the Alexander Library? Masons don't sound to nice to me...

BTW How do I find a local Mason Lodge/Group/Whatever they are suppose to go to? Yellow Pages? Closest city is Toledo, maybe Cleveland, live about in the middle of those two, so just depends if I want to go east or west 30-35 miles.

[edit on 20-10-2005 by Full Metal]

Lexicon -- Why do you use a picture of Baphomet in your signature logo? A pic of Baphomet being worshipped by Freemasons at that. (Baphomet = Lucifer = Satan = Set = Baal = Bel, etcetera)

And how come you guys think might makes right? What makes you think you can make the rules? You just think one hand washes the other and if you cover for your "brother's" crimes he'll cover for yours?

Dh1, you might try reading ALL of my posts.


When you say:

"Interpretations of words and names, such as lucifer, must be done in the context of the author that wrote the text in question, not in the wishful context of the reader. Whether most people today equate lucifer with satan/devil is a meaningless fantasy if the author did not intend it in that manner and such an interpretation is just plain WRONG. "

MUST be done in the context of the author that wrote the text in question? I don't think so. I try to see everything in the world today from GOD's angle, not mans. God's "context" trumps all. People today equating lucifer with satan/devil is a meanigful reality, not a meaningless fantasy. Furthermore, how do YOU really know what the author really intended? When it comes to the word and spiritual discernement you are in lack.





[edit on 20-10-2005 by TxSecret]

Originally posted by resistance
Lexicon -- Why do you use a picture of Baphomet in your signature logo?

Last time I checked resistance, Baphomet was represented by a Goat by you "fundies" not by a Bull.

A pic of Baphomet being worshipped by Freemasons at that.

That's pathetic resistance. Surely you can do better than that. Try...try hard or stop posting garbage.

(Baphomet = Lucifer = Satan = Set = Baal = Bel, etcetera)

Nope Nope Nope Nope Nope. You obviously do not even have an inkling of an idea where the name/word Baphomet came from. You believe what some fundamentalist preacher told you (and will likely sell you a copy of the program for a "gift" of $49.00 like Ankerberg does)

Try this one on for size: Fundamentalism = Fanaticism

And how come you guys think might makes right?

What makes YOU think you (a non-Mason) is RIGHT and those of us who ARE Masons (I myself have been a VERY active one for 16 years) are WRONG?????? (Hint: fanaticism)

What makes you think you can make the rules?

What rules? YOUR rules? I guess you can make them (or blindly follow like cattle without actually utilizing one of the most precious gifts God has given you...the ability to reason and THINK)

You just think one hand washes the other and if you cover for your "brother's" crimes he'll cover for yours?

Who committed a crime? You're rambling.

This thread should be closed for lack of original content. Try and ATS search if you want to debate this garbage...there's plenty of it archived to keep you entertained for DAYS.

Sheesh...






[edit on 20-10-2005 by senrak]

[edit on 20-10-2005 by senrak]

Senrak -- Sorry. The caratoon pic of the bull god looked so much like the renditions I've seen of Baphomet that I thought it was a goat. You're right, it's a bull. That's Baal. Sorry.

Baal = Lucifer = Satan

Geez Senrak,

I'll admit.. I'm not up to speed on all of the symbolism that you all speak of but I'm working on it. Can you please however refrain from calling all of "us" "fundies'? I promise I will not call you "guys" Idolytrous satanist culties.. (Trying to be funny, sort of)

TxSecret -- You shouldn't swear, use God's name as a curseword, even if it's a disguised version. Scripture says (Ten Commandments) if you take the name of the Lord your God in vain it "will not go unpunished."

[edit on 20-10-2005 by resistance]

Resistance,

I'm not going to even pretend to understand that last post.. care to eleborate?

I'm well aware of God's commandments.



[edit on 20-10-2005 by TxSecret]

Originally posted by TxSecret
Geez Senrak,
I'll admit.. I'm not up to speed on all of the symbolism that you all speak of but I'm working on it.

I'm glad you're working on it. Several on this list apparently AREN'T working on it. They prefer to regurgitate things they've heard or read on some whack-o web-site and accept it as the truth rather than doing ACTUAL research. (Surfing the web simply is NOT legitimate research...not to say that there are not some informative and accurate sites out there)

Can you please however refrain from calling all of "us" "fundies'?

I didn't point any fingers TxSecret, my words were aimed directy at resistance (and I stand by that) However (no offense meant, but) if the proverbial shoe fits....

I promise I will not call you "guys" Idolytrous satanist culties..

I appreciate that, because I for one am none of the above. I am in fact a devout Trinitarian Christian. As a Freemason, however, I have NO PROBLEM believing in the "Brotherhood of all mankind" Because Christian or not, God DID create us ALL, now didn't he? (I wonder if ol' resistance will try to deny that!)

(Trying to be funny, sort of)

The humor is appreciated.

Oh My Gawd.... resistance, you have GOT to be the most annoying poster on ATS I have ever seen. What are you the morality police now? If you can't add anything to the current discussion then no need to comment at all.

Staying on topic now...

They feel the need to post lies, because they believed what someone else said or wrote without fully researching all sides. As for me...the jury is still out on freemasonry. So much to read, so little time.

peace

Originally posted by TxSecret
I try to see everything in the world today from GOD's angle, not mans.

This statement is a totally absurd egotistical excercise in self righteousness. God is not only greater than you conceive, God is greater than you are capable of conceiving. You can't see things from God's angle because you are not God. You are capable of seeing things from the angle of a human because you are a human. IMHO what you are claiming as a view from God's angle is nothing more than the delusional view of a man.
.

Originally posted by StickyG
Oh My Gawd.... resistance, you have GOT to be the most annoying poster on ATS I have ever seen.

Sticky,

You obviously weren't around when Dribbler made his/her/its debut on ATS. For a while Dribbler was my own personal troll...and Mirthful Me was extremely JEALOUS. (Apologies Mirth...the truth hurts)

Oh, and by the way StickyG, that reference (Gawd) will get you a demerit from ol' resistance as well. Apparently, he, like many fundamentalists, believes that the name of God is actually "God" Go figure.

Regards

I'm not militant (for now) against the "cause" of freemasonry mostly because I don't fully understand freemasonry in general but I DO currently oppose it.

I will not call freemasonry a religious organization outright but you can't deny the fact that it does occupy a role that persuades people down "different" spirtual paths. Do you understand where I'm going with this?

Honestly, I'm trying to reconcile freemasonry with Christianity but I currently am not able to do that.

The fact that freemasonry allows for more than one "god" IMMEDIATELY puts it under the category of -apostasy-. A serious version of it too.

Look here:

lds.about.com...






[edit on 20-10-2005 by TxSecret]

DF1, you just don't get it. I'm not trying to say I'm GOD.

If you have not noticed already, I'm am useing HIS WORD as a reference as HE INSTRUCTED.

I'm afraid it's you that's being self rightious. I have God's word to stand on.. what do YOU have?

You are light years off base.


BTW, my appologies for my misuse of quotes, has gotten me in trouble before but it still does not detract from the points I'm trying to make.



[edit on 20-10-2005 by TxSecret]

Originally posted by senrak
You obviously weren't around when Dribbler made his/her/its debut on ATS. For a while Dribbler was my own personal troll...and Mirthful Me was extremely JEALOUS. (Apologies Mirth...the truth hurts)

Oh, and by the way StickyG, that reference (Gawd) will get you a demerit from ol' resistance as well. Apparently, he, like many fundamentalists, believes that the name of God is actually "God" Go figure.

Well I'm not sorry I missed Dribbler's antics. For a site who's motto is to deny ignorance, people like resistance here really make me want to pull some hairs. I'm working right now on a canon I can stuff him into and shoot him to the moon with so he can enjoy a G-d's eye view of the earth while learning we actually did land there.

Thanks for the heads up though senrak.

peace

Originally posted by senrak
You obviously weren't around when Dribbler made his/her/its debut on ATS. For a while Dribbler was my own personal troll...and Mirthful Me was extremely JEALOUS. (Apologies Mirth...the truth hurts)

Having dribbler is your claim to fame? I'm supposed to be jealous of that? Where's my favorite bitter pill when I need him? I had real "under the bridge dwellers" like jhova, and Hard Red, and my favorite to date, decretal. Back to tending to the eggs Senrak, the Reptillian Ovelords tire of your grandiose machinations.

Today's Secret Societies is a far kinder and gentler place than the "good ole days;" I'd recommend some archival reading to the newer members just to get a flavor of all the players, past and present.

Green Monkeys, not just for envy anymore...