We're doing exactly what they want us to do

While we bicker back and forth about the war on terrorism, unusual and scary policies are being thrust upon us. We're told that these policies must exist to protect us from those who want to destroy us. Our leaders are trying to convince us that we must give up certain freedoms so that we may be secure.

If I remember correctly, I was told that the reason for the attacks on 9/11 was because "they are jealous of our freedoms." I find this quite bizarre, but if this is really the reason for their hatred, removing the very freedoms that they are jealous of seems to be playing right into their hands.

What's going on here folks? I'm having a terribly difficult time wrapping my head around this. Can we really say that we are winning the war on terrorism if we're stepping all over our constitutional freedoms that they don't want us to have?

The assault on our freedoms as a result of legislation subsequent to the September 11th attacks is grossly over 'hyped'.

More damage has been done by our own elected officials by way of leaking of sensitive and/or classified information to the press. The press, who apparently have no scruples whatsoever regarding national security, and what they will report.

If you say our freedoms are now being repressed, I say that we've never been more free, and that freedom will be our eventual undoing.

Originally posted by Belgarath
While we bicker back and forth about the war on terrorism, unusual and scary policies are being thrust upon us. We're told that these policies must exist to protect us from those who want to destroy us. Our leaders are trying to convince us that we must give up certain freedoms so that we may be secure.

If I remember correctly, I was told that the reason for the attacks on 9/11 was because "they are jealous of our freedoms." I find this quite bizarre, but if this is really the reason for their hatred, removing the very freedoms that they are jealous of seems to be playing right into their hands.

What's going on here folks? I'm having a terribly difficult time wrapping my head around this. Can we really say that we are winning the war on terrorism if we're stepping all over our constitutional freedoms that they don't want us to have?

yeah they are jealous of our freedom thats why they attack Christians like in Iraq or Pakistan, they destroy the Buddist statues because its sittin in Afghanistan freely. the Taliban the terrorists supported wanted to make Hindus wear tags that show they are Hindus, similar to Jews wearing the Star of David so its easier to identify who is who.

Originally posted by DeltaChaos
The assault on our freedoms as a result of legislation subsequent to the September 11th attacks is grossly over 'hyped'.

More damage has been done by our own elected officials by way of leaking of sensitive and/or classified information to the press. The press, who apparently have no scruples whatsoever regarding national security, and what they will report.

If you say our freedoms are now being repressed, I say that we've never been more free, and that freedom will be our eventual undoing.

I beg to differ. The government knows fully well that the press can't be counted upon to keep their collective trap shut--not only that, I think the government deliberately tells the press certain things. Ours is a state-run media believe it or not.

And yes our freedoms are being repressed. The Patriot Act totally guts the Fourth Amendment. There was a case in California where the Secret Service visited this one guy for mentioning bin Laden and Bush in the same sentence!

Take a good look at the news, or better yet, prisonplanet.com, and you tell me if we're more free now than, say, 30 years ago!

Nobody can take away freedom, that was a lie from the start.

Every man retains the freedom to choose, at all times, and is responsible for those choices.

Those who give away their freedom are naturally inclined to lose it.

Most people make decisions based on bad information, sometimes information specifically designed to mislead them. That's the way of nature, just look at the animal kingdom for an endless series of examples of that princple of conflict.

So..basically..everything is going according to schedule, the human race is in fact just a species of animal, and we are subject to the laws of competition, adaptation, and refinement.

We're bred to lie, kill our enemies, love our families as an extension of ourselves (DNA), and use any means necessary to survive. It's just nature. Some animals are cute and cuddly and unprepared for the wilds, and some have finely tuned instincts, conferred by evolution to increase survival.

I've always wanted to institute a meritocracy in government, but I think I'm realizing that the world itself is governed by the very same principles... Perhaps there's no need for a better form of government, because our governance is universal, and while mostly unobserved, still 'fair' in the most real sense of the word.

So basically, 'we're' only doing what they want 'us' to do, in the sense that they know what 'we're' liable to do better than 'we' do. And on that note, who's this we? I guess the advantage that's most spectacular in individuals is this evolved self perception we humans are so in love with ourselves over.

When people figure out why they do the things they do, they learn why other people do the things they do, to some extent. That's like predicting the future...

So yeah..I agree with the title of the thread, in a sense.

Originally posted by Amethyst
Ours is a state-run media believe it or not.

Believe it or not, the media in this country is bound by the dollar, and those who have the most of them. Money is the motivator. If certain information comes to light through the media, it is because the media know that said information will sell lots of perscription drugs, cars, what have you...

The media is state run only in that the state is money-run.

So, are we helpless? I think so.

Individually, people are in denial. For those of us who see whats really happening, we rant complain and moan about it- but who's going to do anything? The government has worked us, and worked us good. Each time they go a little farther..Heck, i dont imagine there's time for sleeping at the White House these days. Everyday, they reach further for more chaos while we sit at home scratching our heads wondering how much further they will go. I think (i know) we are in a situation where we are willing to let things take their course.
What can i do as one person? March down to Washington and try to be heard? Right.
To suggest that half of the nation should revolt is simply asking for encarceration in the alledged "Bush Camps"
Democrats are siding with Bush in whatever is developing. WE DONT HAVE A RATS CHANCE IN HELL to turn anything around.
Its too late, IMHO

If only we, as a nation had been smarter....? That wouldnt have helped.
Whatever you call this chain of events we have been living thru, has been in the works for many years, i beleive, thru Democrats and Republicans hands. They're all in agreement. Our freedoms will be a thing of the past and that has been loooong decided by the powers that be.

I think its time to accept our dark future.

www.whatreallyhappened.com...
The mainstream media has finally acknowledged what has been obvious for quite some time; that the internet web logs, or "blogs", are here to stay. Far from being a passing fad, blogs like the present one existed before the word "blog" was coined to describe them. After nearly 12 years, and a readership that exceeds that of most city newspapers, the suggestion that blogs like this one are a passing fancy is at best wishful thinking.

The mainstream media has long attempted to dismiss blogs as somehow "unprofessional", usually because blogs are not vast centers of commerce. Occasionally there will be a gratuitous hit piece, attempting to portray the internet as a haven for child molesters second only to the clergy. Always there is the implication that blogs should not be taken seriously because the bloggers don't play the game by the same rules as the mainstream media.

With regard to that last one, it is true that the blogs don't play by the same rules as the mainstream media. We have neither governments, owners, nor advertisers imposing rules on us. Media entities with huge overheads can be bought. Reporters will trade their souls for a ride on Air Force One. Private Blogs (as opposed to blogs set up by public relations firms pretending to be private blogs) running on spare change are immune to that sort of thing.

My friend's if this becomes more popular maybe we will start to see people get REALLY motivated. We are not helpless each and every one of us has a voice and we are all using it, violence is not the key it is communication and cooperation, There are people who do think this world is doomed to some sort of disaster and this may not be the case if they were fully informed as well, as for the lurkers in the sand not wanting any fuss this applies to you too.

If we choose to listen to every word the mass press say then we deserve to die as we obviously cannot be bothered to do anything about them remember its them that give you information for you to decide but if they tell the story in way that makes you feel emotionally about the story in general then they already know what ya' gonna do next.

Its not about left vs right its about your money in there pocket 100% profit minimum effort but a few dangers in between to make you think its real.

Originally posted by DeltaChaos
The assault on our freedoms as a result of legislation subsequent to the September 11th attacks is grossly over 'hyped'.

More damage has been done by our own elected officials by way of leaking of sensitive and/or classified information to the press. The press, who apparently have no scruples whatsoever regarding national security, and what they will report.

If you say our freedoms are now being repressed, I say that we've never been more free, and that freedom will be our eventual undoing.

It may be that these leaks of sensitive/classified information are a distraction to keep us off the scent. Who the heck really knows? It also succeeds in providing a steady flow of "enemy combatants" for whatever purpose.

I don't see how "we" are more free. I don't think we are significantly less free at this point, but the new legislation provides ample opportunity to take away more freedoms.

For people like myself who are not in the know, but pay attention to world affairs with an open mind, it's all very chaotic and undefined. Throw in some distraction and misinformation, and it's enough to make your head spin. I think that's all part of the plan, whatever that may be.

Things are only getting worse. The passing of Patriot Act I intoxicated gov/big biz
with broadened powers, and like a wild animal experiencing the taste of human flesh, it won't be easy to give them up. Since Americans seem mostly apathetic or oblivious to the new bills racing by these days it's becoming more important than ever to watch your back. Audio & visual footage seems to capture Americans attention much better than text from required reading, so installing hidden home surveillance cameras, stocking your home & car with a ready camcorder, disabling/removing event data recorder & other GPS bugs, carrying small voice recorders or camera cell phone, and purchasing serious internet security software without built-in gov backdoor access are some precautions one can take from becoming the next person of interest and the character assassination that follows. Sure, audio/video can be doctored but it is really the last line of defense from being framed. Also wise to purchase a paper shredder for your discarded mail if you haven't already.

[edit on 20-5-2005 by Vajrayana]

Originally posted by WyrdeOne

Every man retains the freedom to choose, at all times, and is responsible for those choices.

But choices are limited by laws made by imperfect humans who I know very little about. I don't consider spending my life in a prison cell particularly free.

Most people make decisions based on bad information, sometimes information specifically designed to mislead them. That's the way of nature, just look at the animal kingdom for an endless series of examples of that princple of conflict.

So..basically..everything is going according to schedule, the human race is in fact just a species of animal, and we are subject to the laws of competition, adaptation, and refinement.

Exactly. But most folks are at a disadvantage because the true information is known only to a select few. By discussing the bits of information we do have and trying to seperate the lies and the truths, we may hope to compete, adapt, and refine within our species.

We're bred to lie, kill our enemies, love our families as an extension of ourselves (DNA), and use any means necessary to survive. It's just nature. Some animals are cute and cuddly and unprepared for the wilds, and some have finely tuned instincts, conferred by evolution to increase survival.

Maybe all the cute and cuddly types can get togther and, with their vast intellect, find a way to survive without the need to lie and kill.

So basically, 'we're' only doing what they want 'us' to do, in the sense that they know what 'we're' liable to do better than 'we' do. And on that note, who's this we? I guess the advantage that's most spectacular in individuals is this evolved self perception we humans are so in love with ourselves over.

In the title of the thread, the 'we' are those who have the freedoms that 'they' are jealous of. And of course, 'they' are those who are jealous of 'our' freedoms.

Because of the Patriot Act, what was once illegal to do, spy on citizens by NSA and other agencies, is now completely legal. You can be accused of being a terrorist and locked up without access to an attorney for having a big mouth. This was why search and seizure laws are so important, but now they are thrown out the window. Do you remember the need for a warrant? The mere suspicion you are a terrorist damns you of all protection. I guarantee in the future people who have agendas and opinions outside of what government policy requires, will disappear like swatted flies.

All governments become corrupt - always have always will. Ours lasted for over two hundred years. The erosion has taken hold - it's now just a matter of time.

I talk to my miltary friends and the conservative ones make the statement, "Are any of your rights being infringed right now? If not, then you're just being paranoid." Since I am white and male, yes, life is still pretty chummy for me here in America, but I smell smoke. I think we are being mentally prepped/lubricated for something much bigger. The people who steer this World Bank/NWO ship are very clever and they have created a situation where any movement will cinch their hold tighter. It's like a chinese finger-puzzle where the more you struggle, the tighter you are held.

What I say to my conservative friends is this: "Just because the straightjacket hasn't been buckled up, doesn't mean you aren't being measured and fitted for one."

America is now an Empire. Even conservatives will admit to this although they will usually say, "Oh but don't worry, it's the most benevolent empire in history."

...Uh yeah, that's comforting. All empires get destroyed but OUR empire is God-chosen and will last. Why am I not buying this? From what I can see, we are essentially daring the world to challenge us, if you listen to the words of the PNAC. They're saying, "Who can stop us?"

As I keep saying, the sheeple don't want anything disturbing their comfort zone. See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil.

There's also this one quote I remember: There are people who make things happen, there are people who watch things happen, then there are people who wonder what in the world just happened. The sheeple are fitting into the third category.

To some people, as long as you have your big house, your big car, your plasma TV, it doesn't matter what's going on in the world. Those people are in for a VERY rude awakening!

Just because relatively few people have been arrested due to the Patriot Act, doesn't mean the potential isn't there. I think the Powers That Be are just setting things up and getting their ducks in a row.

Originally posted by Amethyst
To some people, as long as you have your big house, your big car, your plasma TV, it doesn't matter what's going on in the world. Those people are in for a VERY rude awakening!

Amen to that sister, most Americans have become too disengaged from reality and has become to dependant on the choices of our politicians.

The truth is that we are the ones that give the power to them but we have forgotten that we can take that power away.

We are to attach to our earthy possessions, we have been taught to believe that our leaders know best.

But guess what...........we the people are the ones that are allowing our politicians to make the decisions.

I feel that we have lost our spirits to demand accountability for our leaders actions and they are running rampant in their decision making in our names.

This decisions affect us directly in more ways that many can imagine.

At the same time our leader’s actions in our names have put us the American people in harms way when it comes to the rest of the world and the increasing resentment that have been building up against us.

At the end we have to understand that we the people are the ones to face the consequences for the mistakes of our leaders.


[edit on 20-5-2005 by marg6043]

THIS IS NOT A FREE COUNTRY AND ANYBODY THAT THINKS SO IS NUTS!

Originally posted by MagicaRose
THIS IS NOT A FREE COUNTRY AND ANYBODY THAT THINKS SO IS NUTS!

Hey, could you turn off the caps lock please? Thanks!

While I agree with the sentiment, I wouldn't so much say nuts as I would say that people who think this country is free is in dire need of a proctologist to treat their rectal-cranial inversion.

Originally posted by Belgarath
Can we really say that we are winning the war on terrorism if we're stepping all over our constitutional freedoms that they don't want us to have?

You can still go to walmart or any retailer and buy whatever, right?
You can still stand on "your" property and complain about the govt., right? Tommorrow test this by putting up a " I hate Bush or whatever sign".
betcha' nothing changes. Bet you can still complain day and night.

Isn't the United States great?

Originally posted by Amethyst
I think the Powers That Be are just setting things up and getting their ducks in a row.

No that's not it. It's society in general. We have this I don't give a F%#k attitude that's different. Government is just going with the flow of men in power who will take advantage of a collapsing system. There is no longer accountability. When OJ can get off for blatant murder - things are FUBAR. The buck has passed and those who are intelligent and don't give a #e are going to expolit the rift. Enron screws men out of 30 year pensions without a fu#%ing step and what happens? Not a damn thing and we elect the man who was buds with the bastard CEO to be our President? There is no honor, no integrity, no respect. Were ripped wide open, like a kabar to the gut.

Originally posted by notbuynit

Originally posted by Belgarath
Can we really say that we are winning the war on terrorism if we're stepping all over our constitutional freedoms that they don't want us to have?

You can still go to walmart or any retailer and buy whatever, right?
You can still stand on "your" property and complain about the govt., right? Tommorrow test this by putting up a " I hate Bush or whatever sign".
betcha' nothing changes. Bet you can still complain day and night.

Isn't the United States great?

At this point in time, I think we're in a transition period between great and not so great. Greed and corruption are rampant and are bringing us down. My little world is nice and cozy, but it seems that the world (the US included) has gone nuts.

I guess you didn't read down further in the thread or you would have seen this:

Originally posted by Belgarath
I don't think we are significantly less free at this point, but the new legislation provides ample opportunity to take away more freedoms.

.

[edit on 21-5-2005 by Belgarath]