Explosions underneath the WTC Towers b4 they collapsed

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Explosions underneath the WTC Towers b4 they collapsed.

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Explosions underneath the WTC Towers b4 they collapsed.

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Originally posted by HowardRoark
and Satyr, My point was made. You don't really know what the structural conditions were so any speculation of your part is pure conjecture.

Oh, and you do, eh? This is, by no means, a one line response.

[Edited on 5-31-2004 by Satyr]

Originally posted by Satyr
Hence, the reason why it's never happened before....ever.
[Edited on 5-30-2004 by Satyr]

Yeah....how many times have 747s crashed into buildings?.....
All you are doing in your post is still trying to dodge and deny the facts. Steel does not distribute heat evenly in areas that are not directly exposed to a fire....there will still be differences in temperature from the parts of the beam that are exposed to the fire and those parts of the steel beams that were not exposed to the fire.....

wow, you guys did a government job on him...deducting double points like that

I am not going to argue either side of this one, it wouldnt surprise me either way really. there have been a few instances of people saying things that appear to prove they had knowledge of the incident of it prior to it happening. I did see the FEMA guy's interview & that one bothered me. I also saw Bush's interview when he said he saw the first plane hit. there were a few other instances of the same type of thing. I will try to find some links later, its late now.just some other points to ponder. why would so many people misspeak, if thats all there is to their comments?

Originally posted by metalmessiah
I also saw Bush's interview when he said he saw the first plane hit.

Bush, who has trouble saying his own name most of the time, most likely mis-spoke.

Give the guy a break. Given his displayed public speaking abilities, he certainly needs it....

[Edited on 3-6-2004 by Facefirst]

Originally posted by Facefirst

Originally posted by metalmessiah
I also saw Bush's interview when he said he saw the first plane hit.

Bush, who has trouble saying his own name most of the time, most likely mis-spoke.

Give the guy a break. Given his displayed public speaking abilities, he certainly needs it....

[Edited on 3-6-2004 by Facefirst]

i can't BELIEVE you think that.
he's a complete imbecile who seemingly can't even read.
he's the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.
this is what happens when society conforms to the lowest common denominator, as opposed to recognising and cultivating the best and brightest.

an idiot rules you, is bankrupting the country, is starting world war 3, and is an admitted member of skull and bones(which requires a pledge allegiance STRONGER than his allegiance to USA), mocks people on death row, worships a stone owl in private, and jesus in public, etc...... and you say 'give him a break', he needs it?

insanity.

Originally posted by billybob


i can't BELIEVE you think that.
he's a complete imbecile who seemingly can't even read.
...... and you say 'give him a break', he needs it?

insanity.

Ummm.... You pretty much said the same thing I that I meant... My post was against people who have "read" too deep into Bush's statement concerning the first plane hit.... I would bet money that he mis-spoke. (a recurring pattern of Junior's)

Apparently, you have read to deep into my statement. Calm down and re-read what I wrote. I think you might see the sarcasm that was intended in the first place.... and no, I am not a Bush fan.


.

Originally posted by Facefirst

Ummm.... You pretty much said the same thing I that I meant... My post was against people who have "read" too deep into Bush's statement concerning the first plane hit.... I would bet money that he mis-spoke. (a recurring pattern of Junior's)

Apparently, you have read to deep into my statement. Calm down and re-read what I wrote. I think you might see the sarcasm that was intended in the first place....

and no, I am not a Bush fan.


.

sorry. let me just push this forehead vein back in. i think i may have got some spittle on you, too.
intent is harder to guage in text, yeah?

This about sums it up....

www.infowars.com...

Get back to me in a few weeks when you have had a chance to read this in its entirety.

If you then believe what you are fed from the government/media, then you might as well crawl back under the rock you crawled out from, watch some more Friends episodes, baseball/football games and have a beer on that couch you seem to have growing out your arse....

NeedTruth

It is bad enough the towers were hit anywhere but the damage done would have been much worse had the target points been much lower down. As a result, if this had happened the towers would have crumbled and laid over covering a much larger square area and the suspicious explosions were certainly indicators of a desire to cause even greater devastation than was caused by the towers simply"pancakeing" floor upon floor. Like everything surrounding this tragic event the rest of the story is still out there to be told.

The in-experienced pilots were fortunate to do what they did but rest assured it could have been far worse had they had the ability to have flown the planes in at a steeper angle toward the lower floors.

Originally posted by NeedTruth
This about sums it up....

www.infowars.com...

If you then believe what you are fed from the government/media, then you might as well crawl back under the rock you crawled out from, watch some more Friends episodes, baseball/football games and have a beer on that couch you seem to have growing out your arse....

NeedTruth

Thanks for the link.

Alex Jones and the brigade of people scared of their own shadows? Please. Jones probably thinks his kids and pets were in on 911. Much of what is brought up is baseless and hearsay. There are some interesting angles presented, but not one shred of actual proof.

What I believe is that the Govt dropped the ball.... and we the people paid for it.

I am going to watch some basesball........ at least when someone drops the ball there, no one gets killed.

~Face

[Edited on 4-6-2004 by Facefirst]

Originally posted by NeedTruth
This about sums it up....

www.infowars.com...

Get back to me in a few weeks when you have had a chance to read this in its entirety.

Wow, very informative....is that why you are relying entirely on another "bash the administration, bash the US government, the whole world is behind 9/11, 3/11 every terrorist attack and every fly that farts in the world" site?

Get back to your beer and couch, you seem to let others think for you that you can't even summarize your view or post reliable sites.

If the US government was behind 9/11, and 3/11 there are enough governments in the world that hate us, would know about it and would be presenting the facts for the world to see.

Originally posted by Muaddib

Originally posted by NeedTruth
This about sums it up....

www.infowars.com...

Get back to me in a few weeks when you have had a chance to read this in its entirety.

Wow, very informative....is that why you are relying entirely on another "bash the administration, bash the US government, the whole world is behind 9/11, 3/11 every terrorist attack and every fly that farts in the world" site?

Get back to your beer and couch, you seem to let others think for you that you can't even summarize your view or post reliable sites.

If the US government was behind 9/11, and 3/11 there are enough governments in the world that hate us, would know about it and would be presenting the facts for the world to see.

Just because you and other cannot read and see what is going on around you does not dismiss facts. I for one have opened up my eyes. Alex Jones does not fabricate his info, he just makes his site a one stop shop for all the news that is spread across countless common news sites (CNN, MSNBC, New York Times, etc as well as public declassified government documents.

Obviously you cannot see the big picture before you. Try to factually disprove anything posted there instead of a blanket statement that they are all nuts and scared or whatever.

I'm not trying to start a dispute but open your eyes and keep and open mind and explore a little. It's right there in front of you. Wake up.....

NeedTruth

[Edited on 5-6-2004 by NeedTruth]

Originally posted by Facefirst

Originally posted by NeedTruth
This about sums it up....

www.infowars.com...

If you then believe what you are fed from the government/media, then you might as well crawl back under the rock you crawled out from, watch some more Friends episodes, baseball/football games and have a beer on that couch you seem to have growing out your arse....

NeedTruth

Thanks for the link.

Alex Jones and the brigade of people scared of their own shadows? Please. Jones probably thinks his kids and pets were in on 911. Much of what is brought up is baseless and hearsay. There are some interesting angles presented, but not one shred of actual proof.

What I believe is that the Govt dropped the ball.... and we the people paid for it.

I am going to watch some basesball........ at least when someone drops the ball there, no one gets killed.

~Face

[Edited on 4-6-2004 by Facefirst]

I guess you dismiss the constitution being pulled from under your feet as well as countless official government documents, 'hearsay'. Ok...

Take a look at this non government news site and read the article and tell me the government dropped the ball.
msnbc.msn.com...

If you still classify this as dropping the ball. Question for ya. In baseball, if the batting team hits a fly ball to center field and the outfielder on the other team turns his head and looks the other way and obviously misses it. Is that a considered dropping the ball?

At least read and explore the facts for yourself before making a blanket statement that Alex Jones and his site is a bunch of kooks and scared of their own shadows. Read, open your eyes. Go about it with an open mind. Factually disprove any of the info presented there and then we have a discussion. Until then its just your opinion....


NeedTruth

[Edited on 5-6-2004 by NeedTruth]

Originally posted by Muaddib
Get back to your beer and couch, you seem to let others think for you that you can't even summarize your view or post reliable sites.

If the US government was behind 9/11, and 3/11 there are enough governments in the world that hate us, would know about it and would be presenting the facts for the world to see.

your line of logic assumes that there is not already a one world government setting up shop(via hollywood style staged terror media events and quiet political and character assasinations), and slowly pushing the old status quo into the realm of fiction with the rest of historical 'fact'.
it is not the US government we are talking about, but rather the puppetmaster shadow rulers(the bankers).

i don't know why i bothered to type this, because i doubt you will ever see the elephant in the room. either that, or, you see the elephant, and are trying to hypnotise everyone else into NOT seeing it.

try mike ruppert, for another guy 'scared of his own shadow'.

Originally posted by NeedTruth
I guess you dismiss the constitution being pulled from under your feet as well as countless official government documents, 'hearsay'. Ok...

Take a look at this non government news site and read the article and tell me the government dropped the ball.
msnbc.msn.com...

If you still classify this as dropping the ball. Question for ya. In baseball, if the batting team hits a fly ball to center field and the outfielder on the other team turns his head and looks the other way and obviously misses it. Is that a considered dropping the ball?

At least read and explore the facts for yourself before making a blanket statement that Alex Jones and his site is a bunch of kooks and scared of their own shadows. Read, open your eyes. Go about it with an open mind. Factually disprove any of the info presented there and then we have a discussion. Until then its just your opinion....
[Edited on 5-6-2004 by NeedTruth]

Puh-leeze...

Jones does not have all the information and lets the reader come to their own conclusions to fill in the massive gaps in his findings. That is not investigating, that is speculating.

The article presented a possibility, not a fact. Do you know how many threats a day the US gets? And most are unclear. That fact, compounded by the lack of cooperation and Information sharing between US Intelligence agencies prior to 911 left us open to an attack slipping through the information cracks. If you actually talk to some Feds, some Police personel, etc, they will tell you that prior to 911, they did not trust each other's methods and did not like working together. That problem is still being worked on to this very day. My Grandfather, who graduated #1 in his class from the FBI academy and was NYPD chief,(one below commish) mentioned that they had all kinds of problems having agencies work together... and this was years ago! One can only imagine how deep seated and ingrained the problems between agencies were by the time of 911.

....which leads to:

Two things to remember: Red-Tape and Bureaucracy! Are you going to shut down every major transportation hub based on the statements of ONE person interogated? And by the way, Khan did not even know what he was supposed to hit? Khan himself said "The FBI believed me, but maybe not so seriously." The FBI Brass should have followed up, but the FBI Brass did not follow up on the possibility that Khan was serious/correct and that is where they dropped the ball. Perhaps they could have stopped it..... Who knows what the reason was from HQ to not follow up? Maybe they thought they had a better and more reliable lead at the time..... I would bet money that Al-Qaeda had several plots in the making. Maybe even a dummy/decoy one or two. I don't know the reasons HQ decided not to follow up, you do not know the reasons and Alex Jones sure as hell does not know the reasons. But since he does not know, then it MUST be a conspiracy.

Tracking an enemy terrorist group on a worldwide level is not easy, nor black&white.

Now granted, I appreciate Jones trying to find out if there are any plots that are harmful to us, but his research methods and ways of coming to his conclusions are quite suspect.

And I agree with Muadib, there are enough Goverments that would love nothing more than to expose a 911 United States Goverment conspiracy. Those countries have spies over here, just as we have spies over there. North Korea, China, Iran are a few that come to mind. If there was any real truth to Jones's findings, don't you think a REAL intelligence gather agency would be able to find something. Jones seems to be able to, and he is just a regular civilian. Why not the NK or Iranian intelligence agencies?

Jones, for the most part is doing what we all have been guilty of doing, Monday morning quarterbacking. The Goverment needs to fix the problems and we need to vigilantly move on. Done.

And if a player turns his head instead of catching the ball, he usually does not last long on the team. But at least no one gets killed in baseball if the player drops the ball, so it was a poor analogy to begin with. I was orginally defending my sometime escape of daily BS through sports.


.


[Edited on 5-6-2004 by Facefirst]

Originally posted by Facefirst

Jones does not have all the information and lets the reader come to their own conclusions to fill in the massive gaps in his findings. That is not investigating, that is speculating.

no. that is investigating. and if most people reach the same speculation, given a data set, then chances are pretty good that they are right. if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, etc...
giving no information(ie. ALLEGED terrorist osama bin laden), and filling in only the blanks is what the mainstream media has been doing. THAT is speculating, and because it is disguised as 'news' that you can 'trust'(it's funny how many outlets started using that buzzword in their soundbytes and slogans in recent years), the masses fall for it hook, line, and sinker.

The article presented a possibility, not a fact. Do you know how many threats a day the US gets? And most are unclear. That fact, compounded by the lack of cooperation and Information sharing between US Intelligence agencies prior to 911 left us open to an attack slipping through the information cracks. If you actually talk to some Feds, some Police personel, etc, they will tell you that prior to 911, they did not trust each other's methods and did not like working together. That problem is still being worked on to this very day. My Grandfather, who graduated #1 in his class from the FBI academy and was NYPD chief,(one below commish) mentioned that they had all kinds of problems having agencies work together... and this was years ago! One can only imagine how deep seated and ingrained the problems between agencies were by the time of 911.

you have to ask yourself why, a collection of agencies, (all doing roughly the same job, ie. defending truth, justice, and the american way), don't trust each other. i can speculate. ....because they are all RIDDLED with CORRUPTION! one can not only imagine how deep the problems are between agencies, one can go to inthewilderness.com, and read about it.

Two things to remember: Red-Tape and Bureaucracy! Are you going to shut down every major transportation hub based on the statements of ONE person interogated? And by the way, Khan did not even know what he was supposed to hit? Khan himself said "The FBI believed me, but maybe not so seriously." The FBI Brass should have followed up, but the FBI Brass did not follow up on the possibility that Khan was serious/correct and that is where they dropped the ball. Perhaps they could have stopped it..... Who knows what the reason was from HQ to not follow up? Maybe they thought they had a better and more reliable lead at the time..... I would bet money that Al-Qaeda had several plots in the making. Maybe even a dummy/decoy one or two. I don't know the reasons HQ decided not to follow up, you do not know the reasons and Alex Jones sure as hell does not know the reasons. But since he does not know, then it MUST be a conspiracy.

alex jones has the advantage of not being hindered by a chain of command of red tape and bureaucracy. has any mainstream outlet released his footage of bohemian grove? it IS all about ratings, according to people like you who don't realise, or are part of the conspiracy, isn't it? that footage would make sales skyrocket. so why don't they pick it up? have you ever seen the spin memos the rank and file of media get? they are VERY clear on what you will and will not report or publish. like when the american peace protestor got crushed to death by an israeli bulldozer, for example. or when the american miltary opened fire with a tank on a known designated, supposedly safe and protected media hotel in iraq. these reporters weren't 'embedded' and this was a clear warning. other independent journalists were purposely fired on as well.

Now granted, I appreciate Jones trying to find out if there are any plots that are harmful to us, but his research methods and ways of coming to his conclusions are quite suspect.

methods like risking his life taking video and publishing it FOR FREE? i think his conclusion that world leaders worship a stone owl called molech is pretty rock solid. how many frickin' dots do you need to see the picture?

And I agree with Muadib, there are enough Goverments that would love nothing more than to expose a 911 United States Goverment conspiracy. Those countries have spies over here, just as we have spies over there. North Korea, China, Iran are a few that come to mind. If there was any real truth to Jones's findings, don't you think a REAL intelligence gather agency would be able to find something. Jones seems to be able to, and he is just a regular civilian.

Why not the NK or Iranian intelligence agencies?
[Edited on 5-6-2004 by Facefirst]

i think you misunderstand the role of spies. they are not in the business of publishing secrets. they are in the business of keeping them. and if it is these same intel agencies that are causing all the problems, do you really think the 'investigation' by them would have any footing in reality, other than what is independently verifiable and obvious to joe public?

Below are links that I found that I did not get from Alex Jones or his site. His site is just one of the many I go to to research. These are pointing to legit news articles, not government bashing sites, so dont use that statement for your comeback.

Hopefully I'm on that special notification list when something is about to unfold to give me advanced warning.
www.sfgate.com.../chronicle/archive/2001/09/12/MN229389.DTL

Bush Administration has insisted that anything like the 'planes-as-weapons' scenario of 9-11 was 'unthinkable' before 9-11.
inn.globalfreepress.com...

www.usatoday.com...
Also, make sure you read the last paragraph closely which will lead into what I link to next.

Pay careful attention to times of when the planes went off course and the time of the building impact.
www.cbsnews.com...

This incident involves a privately owned plane going off course.
www.nytimes.com...
Wow, such quick response time....

Investigation right after 9/11. NRO operates many of the nation's spy satellites. Ah, take the day off....
www.boston.com...

Why would they classify this? Firemen's audio communications while doing their job. Ah, I have nothing to hide. Cant find the link, look for it.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

These are just a couple of numerous eye raisers. Search google and other various sites for yourself and then come to your own conclusion beyond what the TV says. Things just dont add up. Too many question and too may far fetched answers.

Here is another good site containing collections of news about 9/11.
www.911review.org...

There are so many holes in the governments official explaination of 9/11 that is aint even funny. Swiss cheese doesnt even come close.

I guess you think the JFK assasination involved just one lone gunman. Those crazy physics defying bullets. Where can I buy a box? .... LOL

FLAG goes out to BillyBob. Keep the eyes open!

Originally posted by billybob

alex jones has the advantage of not being hindered by a chain of command of red tape and bureaucracy. has any mainstream outlet released his footage of bohemian grove?

Pressed for time at the moment, but yes, Alex Jones Bohemian Grove footage was on TV. I saw it. It did not look like much at all to me except for a bunch of rich businessmen blowing off steam and acting like frat-boys and Mr. Jones making a mountain out of a molehill. I hardly see how he risked his life to film it. By the end of the tape, I had to seriously question the state of Mr. Jones's mental-stability. He seemed outright delusional and paranoid. He also seemed to have a bitter ax to grind. Hardly the stance to keep an objective mind and outlook.

In short, he seemed like a jerk and loser badly in need of attention.

be back later

~Face

Do you work for the government? You sure sound like it.