The issue of "Freedom of Speech" on ATS

Originally posted by infinite
Thank you Skeptic Overlord for once again blessing us

about time someone stepped in

Honestly dude, you seriously got to stop the extreme brown nosing. Every post that comes from regarding mods or the site is riddled with a serious dose of a$$ kissing. That doesn't help anything at all.

Everyone here is human (then again maybe not ) and we all make mistakes. It's Important for the mods to have some kind of regulation as well as users and from my experiences with some of them there is none. There have been situations where some of the mods were so wrong in their actions and comments to the point that it was proven 100%, yet the higher ups like SO still failed to be reasonable and continued down the path they choose disregarding the facts. The mods must practice what they preach and realize they make mistakes to, more importantly get to a level of maturity where they can accpet they made a mistake and correct it.

When I see SO posting a thread that states the site wants "an environment in which members aspire to our higher standards, not scoff at them" I wonder what those standards are. Following every word the mod says blindly? Isn't the motto of this site deny ignorance?

The rules set forth are fine as long as EVERYONE follows them, mods should not be able to do and say what they want with no repercussions as members do not have that privilege.

Let's everyone try to be FAIR, use your heads and be civil, members and mods alike and everything will be fine (that includes losing the fanboy attitude as well).

[edit on 12-5-2005 by d1k]

I think it is more about how you say it and not what you say.

You can say whatever you want, only if you wrap it up nicely: long post, a picture or two, a few links, no insults directed at any memeber personaly, no swearing, all aranged to be visualy nice and all that.

I could say for example "you are a stupid american" or "you're a stupid arab", and that would be violation of T&C, it is a short, one-liner personal insult, nothing more.

But I could also say "from what I understand, certain people lack sufficient knowledge to fully understand the extent to which this situation has turned into serious threat to the whole world. Here is a link to a "scientific" paper by Dr.Whatever that explains how human brain processes information and another link saying basicaly the same, but with more pictures". No personal insult, no swearing, yet I got my point across.

Certain members have posted tons of stuff that IS racist, genocidal, filled with hatred, but they know HOW to post it to remain within the rules. Those are freedom of speech abusers, but you can't have freedom of speech without them, be it a privilege or a right.

d1k, this isn't high-school you know. Congratulating and giving kudos to the staff who work thier asses off is not being a brown-nose, it's being appreciative of the hard work the staff put's into this place.

Originally posted by paperclip
You can say whatever you want, only if you wrap it up nicely: long post, a picture or two, a few links, no insults directed at any memeber personaly, no swearing, all aranged to be visualy nice and all that.

Yes, Paperclip. Or you could post something that is instigative such as
what Jamesthelesser posted on page two of this thread. Instigative is
also covered under 'free speech' ....

But well, KKK, Neo Nazis, Republicans, they have
the right to say what they want, even if it is offensive/racist.

I could now post something like - But well, convicted fellons, drug
addicts, anti-American Communists, democrats, they have the right to
say what they want, even if it is offensive/ignorant.

No, I don't think all democrats are those things but if I did, I could
because instigation or jabs are okay and covered under free speech.

My add - what you CAN say, and what you SHOULD say in polite
conversation are sometimes two very different things. If you say things
that are instigative or a jab .... even if it is allowed .... go ahead but
shame on you.

As Springer said -

This site is a CIVIL, decent, and courteous corner of the web
... limit vulgar, insulting, hateful, assenine, idiotic, untruthful,
misleading, or downright disgusting iterations ...

[edit on 5/12/2005 by FlyersFan]

I think it's wise to showcase a recent example of the kind of nonsense we encounter on a weekly basis, then receive threats because we're infringing on someone's "freedom of speech".

Yesterday, member "Silver Star" was banned, his "free speech" was infringed in this thread:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
He's on global ignore, so it's a bit hard for members to see his posts... I'll provide some choice snippets:


It started when he began romantic overtones with another member within a public, and follow-up reaction was not positive.

I was wondering if you are married or dating someone, . . . and if you aren't I was wondering if you are in the market for someone to spend some time with...

Then, his responses were ugly:

DO YOU WANT FOR ME AND YOU to gET IN A FIGHT OR SOMETHING??? IL L WIN PUNK.

Take your daddys four-five, and let it be done with son.

You'd better stop now son whilst you're ahead, or else I'll kill you in a most horrific way.

The first reaction of staff was to put him on Global Ignore and communicate via U2U. The result, he created a new thread titled, "Mod Nazis" with some this nonsense:

I will not include specific mod names or urls depicting ATS mods crimes, or individual stories condeming specific mods for covering up certain conversations involving negative views of said mod, or the seriously embarassing contents of the conversations deleted by the mods and the hypocracy displayed by mods of this and these forums.
>snip<
the deliberate manipulation of things, and most importantly, the DELETION OF FREE SPEECH.
>snip<
To delete words and ideals in their entirety and to make them dissapear....IS THIS NOT WHAT WE FIGHT AGAINST???

So there you have it. An example of the type of pitiful tripe some members attempt to wrap in the guise of "free speech". Certainly, sane people can understand that the core concept of protecting freedom of expression was never intended to support flagrant insults and death threats.

Originally posted by sardion2000
d1k, this isn't high-school you know. Congratulating and giving kudos to the staff who work thier asses off is not being a brown-nose, it's being appreciative of the hard work the staff put's into this place.

thats what i was doing, but sadly you can't do this anymore around here without someone taking a dislike to it. Im sorry SO, but ATS has changed in the last two years of me being here, its not as friendly as it use to be

[edit on 12-5-2005 by infinite]

Originally posted by infinite
Im sorry SO, but ATS has changed in the last two years of me being here, its not as friendly as it use to be

Yes, it's unfortunate that we have a few members who prefer to be "anti-staff" at every opportunity and enjoy jumping into threads like this and hijacking it for their strange agenda.

Yesterday, Simon and others reviewed the posting history of one such member, and could not find any posts outside of "Board Questions & Business" in their previous 40 posts. And those posts were invariably of a disruptive tone, simply for the pleasure of being disruptive. As a result, a temporary posting ban was applied, and the issue is being discussed. So, some of the staff have notices, and are considering ways to deal with it.

its sad really,
long time members like me always see ATS as a family where everyone is friendly and caring to eachother, now a few bad seeds have come to affect the place. its sad really

Originally posted by infinite
... ATS has changed in the last two years of me being here

...long time members like me always see ATS as a family where everyone is friendly and caring to each other...

Yes, a definite change in the atmosphere has occurred. But this is natural in a growing 'net community.

I belong to another forum that started on About.com . A group of the steady posters had that feeling of family. Many met face-to-face, called on the phone, etc. Then few members started their own site in order to grow and do some different things. As new members came in and others drifted away, the site changed to a less intimate feel. The core members still talk to each other the same, but it is diluted.
And I'm part of that effect. I still seek out a couple of the "old school", but not as many or as often as in the past.

I don't even think it's a matter of "control" or size, just a natural evolution.