Jesus resurected using black magic?

Saturday is the day of the planet Saturn
Saturday is the only day of the week that retained its Roman origins in the wake of the English invasions of the Angles and Saxons. This may have been because there was no Norse God to roughly correspond to the Roman God of Time and the Harvest, Saturn. The Anglo-Saxons simply adapted the Roman, "dies saturni", making it saterdaeg.(Dutch:Zaterdag)
Baloria

[edit on 12-5-2005 by baloria]

Originally posted by babloyi
I think the only real difference between black and white magic is that "white" magic is God working through you. The person who is performing the "white" magic has no knowledge of how the magic is accomplished, or it's inner workings. So Jesus, Moses, etc. would have been doing "white" magic.
Black magic is when someone tries to take magic into their own hands. They have to do it all on their own, and somehow "learn" how to do it (hence, the interacting with demons seems to be a part of black magic). Christianity takes knowledge of the arcane to be something that average people should not be involved in. The knowledge should only come from God.
All this is, of course, asssuming you believe in such things as "magic", black or white. I was just applying a (reasonably) logical approach to it.

Erk...looks like some misdefining here. I think I understand what you're meaning my friend, that Jesus and Moses performed miracles that were beneficial, but that does not mean they involved white magic... just comparing from my experience and education from practitioners of both. Magic doesn't have ties with Christianity. Simon the Magician claimed he could do the same miracles by using magic, but we know what happened in his story. Also, the Old Testament makes the distinction between faith in God and practicing divination, sorcery, astrology, or enchanting. A really good example is the book of Daniel. Repeatedly provided from Exodus to Revelations are warnings against practicing magic.

Another issue with the practice of magic is the motivation. There are people who want to be something 'more special' than their fellow persons or want to be involved in self empowerment. This kind of egotistical pride can be a very dangerous foundation, opening the gateway for harm. One can try to self-justify their actions, but we've gotta be honest with ourselves if we're expecting to grow spiritually.



[edit on 12-5-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God
Erk...looks like some misdefining here. I think I understand what you're meaning my friend, that Jesus and Moses performed miracles that were beneficial, but that does not mean they involved white magic... just comparing from my experience and education from practitioners of both. Magic doesn't have ties with Christianity. Simon the Magician claimed he could do the same miracles by using magic, but we know what happened in his story. Also, the Old Testament makes the distinction between faith in God and practicing divination, sorcery, astrology, or enchanting. A really good example is the book of Daniel. Repeatedly provided from Exodus to Revelations are warnings against practicing magic.

Hmmm...are you saying that there is a difference between miracles from God, and magic? It seems very similar to me. The only difference seems that "miracles" are more powerful. The magicians were able to make snakes, but Moses' snake was bigger. You say you've had experience with both. Care to elaborate? Perhaps one is not meant to consciously attempt learning magic- that will become black magic. Only if you -what is it you sign your posts with? -pray, train, and study, will God bless you with "white" magic.

Originally posted by babloyi
Hmmm...are you saying that there is a difference between miracles from God, and magic? It seems very similar to me. The only difference seems that "miracles" are more powerful. The magicians were able to make snakes, but Moses' snake was bigger.

The thing is Moses was not performing magic. The source of the miracle was God. Moses was along for the ride. It's totally weird to just 'be a witness' knowing you are not the one doing it. There were no summonings, invokations, evocations, spells, chants, enchanments, rituals, ceremonials, incarnations, summonings, etc.

Originally posted by babloyi
You say you've had experience with both.

Some first hand, a lot of second-hand and education.

Originally posted by babloyi
Care to elaborate?

Sure, but not here. I hear axes sharpening in the background. Feel free to U2U if you're not carrying one. As a friend, I can trust you're not.

Originally posted by babloyi
Perhaps one is not meant to consciously attempt learning magic- that will become black magic. Only if you -what is it you sign your posts with?

-pray, train, and study, will God bless you with "white" magic.

Praying to God is not a chant, ritual, ceremony, summoning and such. In fact, Jesus addresses chant/ritual/ceremony and such as hypocrisy and paganism (no, I'm not labelling, I'm restating Matthew 6:5 - 6:8). It's a one-on-one open talk with God. There are more differences between what's considered white and black magic, but lead to the same root. Oh boy, here comes the flame brigade...

I had 'accidently' practiced black magic one time. Lesson learned, never again. Yeah, I know someone is going to argue that it cannot be done, but all the elements were there without me realizing it and I had to deal with the consequences so .

As excepted and noted...
Pray, train, study,
God bless.



[edit on 12-5-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God
The thing is Moses was not performing magic. The source of the miracle was God. Moses was along for the ride. It's totally weird to just 'be a witness' knowing you are not the one doing it.

That was what I was suggesting. The "Moses was along for the ride" version is white magic, while trying it out yourself would be black magic. However, it was just a theory. If you've experienced it, you'd probably know better.

Originally posted by saint4God
Praying to God is not a chant, ritual, ceremony, summoning and such. In fact, Jesus addresses chant/ritual/ceremony and such as hypocrisy and paganism (no, I'm not labelling, I'm restating Matthew 6:5 - 6:8).

Heheh...I didn't mean pray, train and study in that way, so as to be capable of magic. I meant actually praying, training, and studying, so that you become attuned with the "truth" and the holy. God would then bless you with "white magic". Sort of like those stories you hear of holy people who spend their days spreading good news, and helping people, and spend their nights praying and studying, who are then able to work "miracles".

Originally posted by saint4God
Sure, but not here. I hear axes sharpening in the background. Feel free to U2U if you're not carrying one. As a friend, I can trust you're not.
..............................................
I had 'accidently' practiced black magic one time. Lesson learned, never again. Yeah, I know someone is going to argue that it cannot be done, but all the elements were there without me realizing it and I had to deal with the consequences so

.

Nono, that is OK, I was just trying to understand what exactly you meant by "experiencing it". I don't care to intrude. Besides, even if there is such a thing, and it were in my power to do, I'd rather leave it alone. Nothing to do with me.

[edit on 12-5-2005 by babloyi]

Originally posted by babloyi
Nono, that is OK, I was just trying to understand what exactly you meant by "experiencing it". I don't care to intrude. Besides, even if there is such a thing, and it were in my power to do, I'd rather leave it alone. Nothing to do with me.

No intrusion at all, really. I'd never encourage any practice of it and was more or less offering a testimony of my experiences. Ups to you though.

Originally posted by deesw

[align=center]Anyone want to address any real issues? Pertaining to the post?

I saw no evidence. I saw only warped and perverted perceptions. The same with all anti-Christians. You all warp and pervert the BIBLE to get what you want out of it.

Congratulations, deesw, now you see how I view the bible. No evidence, warped perceptions, perversions of truth, you really hit the nail on the head. And I love how you can use it to fabricate any argument yoiu want. ANd if anyone tries to bring real evidence into the frame, you say "the bible s the only true evidence" or "the answer is in the bible." Correction YOUR answer is in the bible, MY answer is still out there amongst all the credible peices of journalism.

Back to my post about black magic. Nobody has pointed out the three Maji that were present at the birth of christ. The three "wise," men were maji, or magicians. They wer guided by the north star, serius, the dog star. This is probably one of the most direct ties jesus has to magic. Why were they present? And why three, and what significance does frankensense, gold and muir in ancient texts? (possibly one that is older than the new testament, and perhaps older than the bible itself.)



[edit on 13-5-2005 by Eyeofhorus]

[edit on 13-5-2005 by Eyeofhorus]

Stupid ! Do you know what black magic is ...or how it is defined ?

...and bringing that in relation to Christ is dumb !

Originally posted by Eyeofhorus
Back to my post about black magic. Nobody has pointed out the three Maji that were present at the birth of christ. The three "wise," men were maji, or magicians.

Magicians were in the book of Daniel. They didn't seem to do much good there. The Maji (spelled differently, considered wise men) were apparently educated in the night sky, and were able to notice a big difference whereas tha layperson would probably just go "hm, was that there before?".

Originally posted by Eyeofhorus
They wer guided by the north star, serius, the dog star.

Isn't the north star Polaris, at the handle end of the "Little Dipper"? Serius is the "dog star" in Canis Major, yes?

.

Originally posted by Eyeofhorus
This is probably one of the most direct ties jesus has to magic. Why were they present? And why three, and what significance does frankensense, gold and muir in ancient texts? (possibly one that is older than the new testament, and perhaps older than the bible itself.)

I think the 2nd question answers the 1st. They were there to witness and present the gifts. It takes 3 to triangulate a position. Also, some may feel it represents God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. I'm sure there's even more significance, but I believe these three things are very valuable. Personally I think it identifies where the kings came from. That's a fun one to research. Who at the time was the king of gold? of frankensense? And who was the king of Mirr? I have my theories but they're not substantiated yet.

[edit on 31-5-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by joejoe
Stupid ! Do you know what black magic is ...or how it is defined ?

...and bringing that in relation to Christ is dumb !

Easy joejoe, we know what God thinks about judging others. Matthew 7. I agree there are not substantial ties between Christ & black magic but we are to love others as we love ourselves - Matthew 22:39 & Matthew 5:43.

Pray, train, study,
God bless.

Originally posted by joejoe
Stupid ! Do you know what black magic is ...or how it is defined ?

...and bringing that in relation to Christ is dumb !

Thank you for that less than insightful two cents. Why would I waste my time relplying to this kind of post. If I were to explain it to you all. You would simply not listen, then type up some bread and butter bible bash, that is supposedly supposed to prove to me that I am 100% wrong. I'll admit, I know little about Black Magic. That is why I asked this question to begin with. Instead of discussing this idea, which might be more plauseable than you think, it immediately gets turned into a religious debate.

I don't worship, people who are idolized, and I certainly don't kneel for any false prophet.

Pictures of poeple removing jesus's body from the tomb in the rosalyn chapel, seem to say to me, that something odd is going on...

If you have something to say to me that is civil, and informative, and non-bible supported; go right ahead I'm all ears. Otherwise don't waste your breath.

Oh, and saint, good post it really got me on the right track toward researching the maji.

[edit on 31-5-2005 by Eyeofhorus]

Originally posted by Eyeofhorus
Oh, and saint, good post it really got me on the right track toward researching the maji.

Sure thing! I'd be interested in hearing anything you discover about them. I wish I could remember the detailed post I'd heard on another thread a while back. Someone proposed who they were, where they may have come from, and why they were there but I'm drawing a blank. Other words I hear with Magi are "Kings" and "Wise Men". Which one are they? I think it was all three - Kings who were wise-men and scientists. I think one was from China, one from India, and another from Egypt. I have no evidence, but given the gifts and knowledge of astronomy, that was my best guess.


[edit on 31-5-2005 by saint4God]

Why should I waste my time discussing such a stupid idea ?

Anybody ,who knows something about GOD and the bible ...would never start a topic like this ...just wanted to make sure... the author knows my opinion

Originally posted by joejoe
Why should I waste my time discussing such a stupid idea ?

May I ask, before you knew Christ, what did you think about God having a son 2,000 years ago, teaching he we going to save us all, die, and come back from the dead 3 days later to commission his disciples to spread the good news? To say Jesus was just a man and none of what is written actually happened is a lot easier to accept mentally than what truly did happen. Remember where you came from or you can forget about trying to help people.

Originally posted by joejoe
Anybody ,who knows something about GOD and the bible ...would never start a topic like this ...just wanted to make sure... the author knows my opinion

I'd rather hear someone's theory than for them not to bother poking for truth at all. That's just my opinion though.

Pray, train, study,
God bless.

Originally posted by deesw

[align=center]Let me ask you this, If an openly gay person shoves you out of the way of a moving bus and dies. Does he

The answer is A.
The Bible is very clear about homosexuality being wrong. Again what does this have to do with the topic at hand?

I can't believe a so called bible quoting person would actually make a judgment about them going to heaven/hell. Are we still at the milk stage? Go look up John 8:7 (CAST THE FIRST Stone),and please no posts about discernment either...There are plenty of other sins in the bible..aren't we all sinners???(people that believe the bible) So why throw in all this stuff when it isn't even about this..personally I am a christian that goes by the New Testament and Paul taught how to live like one..not the old testament...That's why Jesus came or preached..whatever..the Jews needed it. The world needed. If it fits that it follows a previous story/religion..so what..nothing is new under the sun.... maybe it worked...Jesus warned of people teaching another gospel than what he taught...how many people have been mislead by only reading the bible by themselves or by so called well meaning pastors,etc

My opinion about white magic vs miracles..the magician was envious because of the ease that the miracles were performed and that they were bigger miracles...IMHO

Sorry this was so long..just had to vent..

saint4God , what you do is considered as blasphemy !
Ah,yes ...I forgot...talking about black magic is much more logical !



This is just posting up a useless/senseless topic to me

Originally posted by joejoe
saint4God , what you do is considered as blasphemy !

How so? Did not Jesus talk to the unbelievers, showing them the correct path? He was the shining example of understanding other's situations and thinking. Please explain what I'm doing and how it is blasphemous, I'd hope for no less from a brother/sister who truly wishes to help me.

Originally posted by joejoe
Ah,yes ...I forgot...talking about black magic is much more logical !

This is just posting up a useless/senseless topic to me

There are many people with many questions. Would I deny someone the truth if they ask me? What kind of servant refuses his/her master's command to go out to all nations of the earth and spread the good news? Our God is the God of truth, not of secrecy. It was by His commission I do this, not my accord. Believe me, it'd be much easier if I just stayed out of it.

[edit on 2-6-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God
There are many people with many questions. Would I deny someone the truth if they ask me? What kind of servant refuses his/her master's command to go out to all nations of the earth and spread the good news? Our God is the God of truth, not of secrecy. It was by His commission I do this, not my accord. Believe me, it'd be much easier if I just stayed out of it.

[edit on 2-6-2005 by saint4God]

saint, I whole heartedly agree. I try very hard to answer questions stating that this is my belief, and then give my source. I know that I cannot be right or correct 100% of the time, but I try to convey the truth to the best of my abilities. There is too much name calling and put downs on this board.

Everyone has their own beliefs. They are entitled to the same respect you expect to receive. I understand that religion can be an emotionally charged topic. So let's try to put emotions to the side and carry on with dignity.

[align=center]Easy joejoe, we know what God thinks about judging others. Matthew 7. I agree there are not substantial ties between Christ & black magic but we are to love others as we love ourselves - Matthew 22:39 & Matthew 5:43.


The Bible never commands we like our neighbors. Only Love.
Loving someone does not mean we can't tell them that they are wrong. Telling someone what the Bible says is not judging them.

[align=center]I can't believe a so called bible quoting person would actually make a judgment about them going to heaven/hell.

Shall I explain it for you?