Why is their no Ancient Civilization in North America?

I’ve been puzzled by this for along time now.. You read and see on the new archeologists are finding older and older civilizations in the Asian and European parts of the world. This all got me thinking. Why isn’t there anything hiding in the remote parts of the United States.

Obviously we wont find Atlantis under Newark new jersey but my question is.

Are the Indians the only inhabitants of America?

Did the Indians ever reference any other existing people before them?

Could there be Indian cave paintings that may lead to such a discovery?

There are plenty of secrets buried in America.

I can't recall the exact name of the ancient culture that called this continent their home, but they built earth mounds surprisingly similar to the pyramids in Egypt. I believe they were called the Annissasi, but I'm almost sure the spelling is wrong.

Maybe someone else can help out a little more.

I believe you will be interested in the Hopi indians .


How the Hopi Indians Reached Their World

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When the world was new, the ancient people and the ancient creatures did not live on the top of the earth. They lived under it. All was darkness, all was blackness, above the earth as well as below it.

There were four worlds: this one on top of the earth, and below it three cave worlds, one below the other. None of the cave worlds was large enough for all the people and the creatures.

They increased so fast in the lowest cave world that they crowded it. They were poor and did not know where to turn in the blackness. When they moved, they jostled one another. The cave was filled with the filth of the people who lived in it. No one could turn to spit without spitting on another. No one could cast slime from his nose without its falling on someone else. The people filled the place with their complaints and with their expressions of disgust.

Some people said, "It is not good for us to live in this way."

"How can it be made better?" one man asked.

"Let it be tried and seen!" answered another.

Two Brothers, one older and one younger, spoke to the priest- chiefs of the people in the cave world, "Yes, let it be tried and seen. Then it shall be well. By our wills it shall be well."

The Two Brothers pierced the roofs of the caves and descended to the lowest world, where people lived. The Two Brothers sowed one plant after another, hoping that one of them would grow up to the opening through which they themselves had descended and yet would have the strength to bear the weight of men and creatures. These, the Two Brothers hoped, might climb up the plant into the second cave world. One of these plants was a cane.

At last, after many trials, the cane became so tall that it grew through the opening in the roof, and it was so strong that men could climb to its top. It was jointed so that it was like a ladder, easily ascended. Ever since then, the cane has grown in joints as we see it today along the Colorado River.

Up this cane many people and beings climbed to the second cave world. When a part of them had climbed out, they feared that that cave also would be too small. It was so dark that they could not see how large it was. So they shook the ladder and caused those who were coming up it to fall back. Then they pulled the ladder out. It is said that those who were left came out of the lowest cave later. They are our brothers west of us.

After a long time the second cave became filled with men and beings, as the first had been. Complaining and wrangling were heard as in the beginning. Again the cane was placed under the roof vent, and once more men and beings entered the upper cave world. Again, those who were slow to climb out were shaken back or left behind. Though larger, the third cave was as dark as the first and second. The Two Brothers found fire. Torches were set ablaze, and by their light men built their huts and kivas, or travelled from place to place.

While people and the beings lived in this third cave world, times of evil came to them. Women became so crazed that they neglected all things for the dance. They even forgot their babies. Wives became mixed with wives, so that husbands did not know their own from others. At that time there was no day, only night, black night. Throughout this night, women danced in the kivas (men's "clubhouses"), ceasing only to sleep. So the fathers had to be the mothers of the little ones. When these little ones cried from hunger, the fathers carried them to the kivas, where the women were dancing. Hearing their cries, the mothers came and nursed them, and then went back to their dancing. Again the fathers took care of the children.

These troubles caused people to long for the light and to seek again an escape from darkness. They climbed to the fourth world, which was this world. But it too was in darkness, for the earth was closed in by the sky, just as the cave worlds had been closed in by their roofs. Men went from their lodges and worked by the light of torches and fires. They found the tracks of only one being, the single ruler of the unpeopled world, the tracks of Corpse Demon or Death. The people tried to follow these tracks, which led eastward. But the world was damp and dark, and people did not know what to do in the darkness. The waters seemed to surround them, and the tracks seemed to lead out into the waters.

With the people were five beings that had come forth with them from the cave worlds: Spider, Vulture, Swallow, Coyote, and Locust. The people and these beings consulted together, trying to think of some way of making light. Many, many attempts were made, but without success. Spider was asked to try first. She spun a mantle of pure white cotton. It gave some light but not enough. Spider therefore became our grandmother.

Then the people obtained and prepared a very white deerskin that had not been pierced in any spot. From this they made a shield case, which they painted with turquoise paint. It shed forth such brilliant light that it lighted the whole world. It made the light from the cotton mantle look faded. So the people sent the shield-light to the east, where it became the moon.

Down in the cave world Coyote had stolen a jar that was very heavy, so very heavy that he grew weary of carrying it. He decided to leave it behind, but he was curious to see what it contained. Now that light had taken the place of darkness, he opened the jar. From it many shining fragments and sparks flew out and upward, singeing his face as they passed him. That is why the coyote has a black face to this day. The shining fragments and sparks flew up to the sky and became stars.

By these lights the people found that the world was indeed very small and surrounded by waters, which made it damp. The people appealed to Vulture for help. He spread his wings and fanned the waters, which flowed away to the east and to the west until mountains began to appear.

Across the mountains the Two Brothers cut channels. Water rushed through the channels, and wore their courses deeper and deeper. Thus the great canyons and valleys of the world were formed. The waters have kept on flowing and flowing for ages. The world has grown drier, and continues to grow drier and drier.

Now that there was light, the people easily followed the tracks of Death eastward over the new land that was appearing. Hence Death is our greatest father and master. We followed his tracks when we left the cave worlds, and he was the only being that awaited us on the great world of waters where this world is now.

Although all the water had flowed away, the people found the earth soft and damp. That is why we can see today the tracks of men and of many strange creatures between the place toward the west and the place where we came from the cave world.

Since the days of the first people, the earth has been changed to stone, and all the tracks have been preserved as they were when they were first made.

When people had followed in the tracks of Corpse Demon but a short distance, they overtook him. Among them were two little girls. One was the beautiful daughter of a great priest. The other was the child of somebody-or-other She was not beautiful, and she was jealous of the little beauty. With the aid of Corpse Demon the jealous girl caused the death of the other child. This was the first death.

When people saw that the girl slept and could not be awakened, that she grew cold and that her heart had stopped beating, her father, the great priest, grew angry.

"Who has caused my daughter to die?" he cried loudly.

But the people only looked at each other.

"I will make a ball of sacred meal," said the priest. "I will throw it into the air, and when it falls it will strike someone on the head. The one it will strike I shall know as the one whose magic and evil art have brought my tragedy upon me."

The priest made a ball of sacred flour and pollen and threw it into the air. When it fell, it struck the head of the jealous little girl, the daughter of somebody-or-other. Then the priest exclaimed, "So you have caused this thing! You have caused the death of my daughter."

He called a council of the people, and they tried the girl. They would have killed her if she had not cried for mercy and a little time. Then she begged the priest and his people to return to the hole they had all come out of and look down it.

"If you still wish to destroy me, after you have looked into the hole," she said, "I will die willingly."

So the people were persuaded to return to the hole leading from the cave world. When they looked down, they saw plains of beautiful flowers in a land of everlasting summer and fruitfulness. And they saw the beautiful little girl, the priest's daughter, wandering among the flowers. She was so happy that she paid no attention to the people. She seemed to have no desire to return to this world.

"Look!" said the girl who had caused her death. "Thus it shall be with all the children of men."

"When we die," the people said to each other, "we will return to the world we have come from. There we shall be happy. Why should we fear to die? Why should we resent death?"

So they did not kill the little girl. Her children became the powerful wizards and witches of the world, who increased in numbers as people increased. Her children still live and still have wonderful and dreadful powers.

Then the people journeyed still farther eastward. As they went, they discovered Locust in their midst.

"Where did you come from?" they asked.

"I came out with you and the other beings," he replied.

"Why did you come with us on our journey?" they asked.

"So that I might be useful," replied Locust.

But the people, thinking that he could not be useful, said to him, "You must return to the place you came from."

But Locust would not obey them. Then the people became so angry at him that they ran arrows through him, even through his heart. All the blood oozed out of his body and he died. After a long time he came to life again and ran about, looking as he had looked before, except that he was black.

The people said to one another, "Locust lives again, although we have pierced him through and through. Now he shall indeed be useful and shall journey with us. Who besides Locust has this wonderful power of renewing his life? He must possess the medicine for the renewal of the lives of others. He shall become the medicine of mortal wounds and of war."

So today the locust is at first white, as was the first locust that came forth with the ancients. Like him, the locust dies, and after he has been dead a long time, he comes to life again-- black. He is our father, too. Having his medicine, we are the greatest of men. The locust medicine still heals mortal wounds.

After the ancient people had journeyed a long distance, they became very hungry. In their hurry to get away from the lower cave world, they had forgotten to bring seed. After they had done much lamenting, the Spirit of Dew sent the Swallow back to bring the seed of corn and of other foods. When Swallow returned, the Spirit of Dew planted the seed in the ground and chanted prayers to it. Through the power of these prayers, the corn grew and ripened in a single day.

So for a long time, as the people continued their journey, they carried only enough seed for a day's planting. They depended upon the Spirit of Dew to raise for them in a single day an abundance of corn and other foods. To the Corn Clan, he gave this seed, and for a long time they were able to raise enough corn for their needs in a very short time.

But the powers of the witches and wizards made the time for raising foods grow longer and longer. Now, sometimes, our corn does not have time to grow old and ripen in the ear, and our other foods do not ripen. If it had not been for the children of the little girl whom the ancient people let live, even now we would not need to watch our cornfields whole summers through, and we would not have to carry heavy packs of food on our journeys.

As the ancient people travelled on, the children of the little girl tried their powers and caused other troubles. These mischief-makers stirred up people who had come out of the cave worlds before our ancients had come. They made war upon our ancients. The wars made it necessary for the people to build houses whenever they stopped travelling. They built their houses on high mountains reached by only one trail, or in caves with but one path leading to them, or in the sides of deep canyons. Only in such places could they sleep in peace.

Only a small number of people were able to climb up from their secret hiding places and emerge into the Fourth World. Legends reveal the Grand Canyon is where these people emerged. From there they began their search for the homes the Two Brothers intended for them.

These few were the Hopi Indians that now live on the Three Mesas of northeastern Arizona

there are plenty of other civilizations that a certain institute does not want you to know about. For instance ,back in the thirties there was a man that went down the colorado river on a expedition sponsered by the smithsonian ,and what he found was amazing.Egyptian artifacts in a cave were found that the textboo0ks say should not have been there.


Plenty of others

Originally posted by timoothy
there are plenty of other civilizations that a certain institute does not want you to know about. For instance ,back in the thirties there was a man that went down the colorado river on a expedition sponsered by the smithsonian ,and what he found was amazing.Egyptian artifacts in a cave were found that the textboo0ks say should not have been there.

Plenty of others

Wow thats really amazing! These are the things that i want to learn more about. I will simply not accept that the indians were the only people to inhabit north america. Finding stuff out like this makes me wonder if maybe..

But theirs virtually no traces of a past culture, before the indians. You would think that maybe the Azteks , Inca's or Maya's would have some sort of influence on the people who were living in north america at the time.

read for yourself

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Egyptian ruins in the Grand Canyon
Archeological Coverups by David Hatcher Childress

Perhaps the most amazing suppression of all is the excavation of an Egyptian tomb by the Smithsonian itself in Arizona. A lengthy front page story of the PHOENIX GAZETTE on 5 April 1909 (follows this article), gave a highly detailed report of the discovery and excavation of a rock-cut vault by an expedition led by a Professor S.A. Jordan of the Smithsonian. The Smithsonian, however, claims to have absolutely no knowledge of the discovery or its discoverers.

The World Explorers Club decided to check on this story by calling the Smithsonian in Washington, D.C., though we felt there was little chance of getting any real information. After speaking briefly to an operator, we were transferred to a Smithsonian staff archaeologist, and a woman's voice came on the phone and identified herself.

I told her that I was investigating a story from a 1909 Phoenix newspaper article about the Smithsonian Institution's having excavated rock-cut vaults in the Grand Canyon where Egyptian artefacts had been discovered, and whether the Smithsonian Institution could give me any more information on the subject.

"Well, the first thing I can tell you, before we go any further," she said, "is that no Egyptian artefacts of any kind have ever been found in North or South America. Therefore, I can tell you that the Smithsonian Institute has never been involved in any such excavations." She was quite helpful and polite but, in the end, knew nothing. Neither she nor anyone else with whom I spoke could find any record of the discovery or either G.E. Kinkaid and Professor S.A. Jordan. While it cannot be discounted that the entire story is an elaborate newspaper hoax, the fact that it was on the front page, named the prestigious Smithsonian Institution, and gave a highly detailed story that went on for several pages, lends a great deal to its credibility.

It is hard to believe such a story could have come out of thin air. If this story is true it would radically change the current view that there was no transoceanic contact in pre-Columbian times, and that all American Indians, on both continents, are descended from Ice Age explorers who came across the Bering Strait.

Is the idea that ancient Egyptians came to the Arizona area in the ancient past so objectionable and preposterous that it must be covered up? Perhaps the Smithsonian Institution is more interested in maintaining the status quo than rocking the boat with astonishing new discoveries that overturn previously accepted academic teachings.

Historian and linguist Carl Hart, editor of Word Explorer, then obtained a hiker's map of the Grand Canyon from a bookstore in Chicago.

Poring over the map, we were amazed to see that much of the area on the north side of the canyon has Egyptian names. The area around Ninety-four Mile Creek and Trinity Creek had areas (rock formations, apparently) with names like Tower of Set, Tower of Ra, Horus Temple, Osiris Temple, and Isis Temple.

In the Haunted Canyon area were such names as the Cheops Pyramid, the Buddha Cloister, Buddha Temple, Manu Temple and Shiva Temple. Was there any relationship between these places and the alleged Egyptian discoveries in the Grand Canyon?

We called a state archaeologist at the Grand Canyon, and were told that the early explorers had just liked Egyptian and Hindu names, but that it was true that this area was off limits to hikers or other visitors, "because of dangerous caves."

Indeed, this entire area with the Egyptian and Hindu place names in the Grand Canyon is a forbidden zone - no one is allowed into this large area. We could only conclude that this was the area where the vaults were located. Yet today, this area is curiously off-limits to all hikers and even, in large part, park personnel.

I believe that the discerning reader will see that if only a small part of the "Smithsoniangate" evidence is true, then our most hallowed archaeological institution has been actively involved in suppressing evidence for advanced American cultures, evidence for ancient voyages of various cultures to North America, evidence for anomalistic giants and other oddball artefacts, and evidence that tends to disprove the official dogma that is now the history of North America.

The Smithsonian's Board of Regents still refuses to open its meetings to the news media or the public. If Americans were ever allowed inside the 'nation's attic', as the Smithsonian has been called, what skeletons might they find?


Front page of The Phoenix Gazette of April 5th, 1909
Explorations in the Grand Canyon

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
I believe they were called the Annissasi

I believe you are refering to the Anasazi. Here is a website about them. Its interesting to note that that website states that "Anasazi" is Navajo for "Ancient Ones."

[edit on 5/1/2005 by hatchedcross]

The Mound nations of the Mississipi housed upwards to 50,000 people per city.
There's nothing but big hills of this left, unless one goes digging, and finding the artifacts.

There are the strange macro-sculptures that look like runways.

There are the cave civilizations in death valley.

And of course the native people's of this land have been slaughtered, most likely their most import historical materials destroyed or sold as souvenirs to uncaring whites and lost of all time.

There was also a large nation of indians in New Mexico I think, that apparently was infiltrated by a tribe of cannibals from South American, and it would seem, whiped clean by their cannibal/slave labor practices. I saw a jaw dropping documentary on this a while back.

there are plenty of ancient civializations that lived in the "New World". the Aztecs and before them the Maya and before them the Olmec. The maya and Olmec had organized sports and had very intricate calanders and astronemy. i think the Maya or Aztecs built a huge pyramid in mexico called chichen itza google it.

there are plenty of ancient civializations that lived in the "New World". the Aztecs and before them the Maya and before them the Olmec. The maya and Olmec had organized sports and had very intricate calanders and astronemy. i think the Maya or Aztecs built a huge pyramid in mexico called chichen itza google it. oops i hit the post button twice sorry.

[edit on 1-5-2005 by Senor_Vicente]

It's a myth that there were no civilizations in America. There were many, maybe not as advanced as some in the old world, but they weren't all stone age hunters and gatherers either. North American Indians had vast trade networks, deep religious practices, political systems, languages, and criminal justice systems.

One of the reasons I have heard that might explain the fact that they never advanced as far as Asian and European civilizations in that they lacked beasts of burden, and therefore they could not farm as efficiently, transport goods/trade as well, and they could not centralize power by exerting military force over large distances like say the Greeks and Romans.

They probably could have used buffalo for farming, but not for transprotation. They had no horses, elephants, or camels. All three of which helped the old world civilizations advance further.


[edit on 1-5-2005 by Hajduk]

WyrdOne is right, the Annisazi were a very ancient people, I don't know many details regarding them, but when I was younger I took a trip to the Anasazi Cliff Dwellings, extremly fascinating. I am most likely spelling Anasazi wrong, but definitely worth taking a look on...if you can spell it

From a conversation with an archaeologist:

There is some speculation that there was a very early migration to North America circa 35-50,000 years ago -- way before the generally accepted number of 15-20,000 years. The earlier culture achieved a sizable population, but suffered a population crash, cause unknown, and the few remnant numbers, if any, simply assimilated into later migrations. The evidence is scant and open to interpretation, but a growing body of archos are starting to consider this possibility.

Other things to consider -- South American hieroglyphs contain figures that are found no where else on the continent and suggest early Japanese characters. Tribes in the west coast of South America have legends of sailors from the island lands across the sea. Leading to speculation that Japanese sailors stumbled on South America. Most likely a one way trip and were marooned. Unlikely they ever returned home, and just assimilated and loaned a few ideas to their adopted culture.

Originally posted by timoothy
there are plenty of other civilizations that a certain institute does not want you to know about. For instance ,back in the thirties there was a man that went down the colorado river on a expedition sponsered by the smithsonian ,and what he found was amazing.Egyptian artifacts in a cave were found that the textboo0ks say should not have been there.

Plenty of others

To the best of my knowledge, this article you speak of (from 1909, I believe) had been later revealed to be a hoax, based on articles coming out of Egypt at the time. I cannot find any sites to verify this however, so we'll have to keep looking into it. Personally, I wouldn't find it terribly difficult to believe that there was some sort of cover-up, if only I could see a motive to do so.

Originally posted by supafresh
I will simply not accept that the indians were the only people to inhabit north america... You would think that maybe the Azteks , Inca's or Maya's would have some sort of influence on the people who were living in north america at the time.

Try 'Why don't I know about the Ancient Civilization in North America'.

The Indians- all 3000+ Nations of us- are the Original People. Get used to it. We encompass all races- stop thinking of us as one race opposed to another. Our legends tell us we are the ancestors of all humans. Maybe so.

As for the Aztecs, Incas, and Mayas- surprise! Indians and Mexicans, Indians and Maya, Indians and Peruvians- are the same thing.

The Spanish and English instituted a language barrier. It is artificial, and only the Spanish and English believe that seperates North from South. We are One People, Many Nations, All Races.

Mainstream archaeology tends to erase us. Try this link and this link.

Well it was ancient civilizations in US............no well preserved cities are to be found, just ruins and artifacts.

Only in Mexico and south America we find cities that stand to the test of time, and as the forests are been cut away, more and more ancient cities has been found in South American mostly pyramids.

I wonder also as why US has not more preserve cities like central and south America does.

Originally posted by marg6043
Well it was ancient civilizations in US............no well preserved cities are to be found, just ruins and artifacts.

You mean like this???

www.mrlohmeier.com...

didn't the frist peoples come over here around18-20000 years ago? via the landbridge?

Its believe that people has been in this part of the world 20,000 years ago, the first known civilizations was the Olmec, and they lived in central America in cities by 1300 to 400 BC then it was the Maya, Aztec, Inca and Anasazi.

The Anasazi were located in the four corners in the US, Colorado, Utah, Arizona, and New Mexico. They left one of the most preserve ruins in the US.

teacher.scholastic.com...

like somebody mention before we had the “Mound people”

They were called the Hopewell in Ohio the mound city is located. Also the Chaokia mounds are located in Missisipi.

Is believe that one of the Cahokia Mounds covered 14 acres and it is as big as the base of the Great Pyramid.

The sites are sacred to the native Americans.

www.sover.net...

Dave_54 that is a very nice story thanks.

Originally posted by marg6043
Its believe that people has been in this part of the world 20,000 years ago, the first known civilizations was the Olmec, and they lived in central America in cities by 1300 to 400 BC then it was the Maya, Aztec, Inca and Anasazi.

The Anasazi were located in the four corners in the US, Colorado, Utah, Arizona, and New Mexico. They left one of the most preserve ruins in the US.

teacher.scholastic.com...

like somebody mention before we had the “Mound people”

They were called the Hopewell in Ohio the mound city is located. Also the Chaokia mounds are located in Missisipi.

Is believe that one of the Cahokia Mounds covered 14 acres and it is as big as the base of the Great Pyramid.

The sites are sacred to the native Americans.

www.sover.net...

Dave_54 that is a very nice story thanks.

I am quite certain that the Cahokia mounds are in Collinsville, Illinois. I know because I have been there and live less then 30 minutes away. It is a GIANT mound which they think was used for a burial chamber. I have never heard of them being used as cities. I have been to the top of the mound and let me tell you, it is quite a climb. You have to walk up quite a few steps, over 200. The most famous of these mounds is Monk's mound. There are as many as 120 of these mounds. They are believed to have been built around 700 ad. It is believed that over 20,000 members of the Cahokia tribe lived at and around this area.