NEWS: 13yr Old Denied Abortion By Florida Court.

Originally posted by kingjules
falling ionto the thread now. it is not easy to judge.
but i think that someone should have told the girl that sex aat 13, it's a bit too early. and so it is right that a judge come into that because if she is pregnant at that age, then it means that she surely has some personal issue and that she cannot really decide for herself. as for the parents fo the girls, well they should be judge for bad education, if that exists!

Funny you should say that because the U.S. government are the legally appointed "parents" of this girl. The same government that apparently didn't care enough to use every resource to find her for a month after she went missing from the shelter the state put her in. The same government that probably let her be abused in the state shelter, which is probably why she ran away in the first place.

And now, these people feel qualified to tell someone what they should do with their life?

Absurd.

This girl is a victim--she has been abused, neglected, abandoned, raped (she is 13, remember?)--and now these people want to force her to bear a child, only to take it away from her.

Does anyone understand how that will screw her up even more? Regardless of how much she doesn't want to be pregnant now, once she carries to term, she will start feeling like a mother when she gives birth. Hormones will kick in and she will become attached to the child---she's already said that she will want to keep the child if she has it. For the state to force her to have the child and then rip it away is more abuse.

This girl will have to live her entire life knowing that she has an offspring somewhere--that is going to mess her up forever.

Give the girl what she wants. She seems to know better than anyone else what is best for her.

IF the Girl Is mature enough to have sex then she IS mature enough to Suffer the Consequences of her CARELESS actions the JUDGE was 110% correct in his ruling **bout time a Damed Florida Judge got SOMETHING right........The Press Coverage ACTUALLY helps her cause.....I am sure a Loving ADOPTIVE family could take the child off the Girls hands..........And MAYBE if she goes thru LABOR she will think twice about HAVENING SEX Harsh but TRUE

IF it was RAPE I think that this fact would have been brought up in the case QUITE a LONG time ago.........

first off i don't think punishment is quite what i had in mind. sure i guess it could be considdered punishment by some. but what it realy is is the reason for haveing sex, a child. it might not have been propperly considered by this girl and whoever the father is, but it is still a life. that is the point. you should not kill someone just to make someone else's life easyer. i did not say that because she needs punishment. but because there is now a SECOND LIFE involved. this is not like a toy that didn't work properly and can be returned. this is a HUMAN BEING THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT. this bialogical function worked propperly the way it was intended. show me how this baby has commited a crime deserveing to be put to death. it is not the babies fault this this has happened.

the fact of the mater is: a) she got pregnant. we all know how that happens. so unless she was raped she willingly had sex. b) she now has a human life growing within her. c) she does not want this life to grow. not because this person (and yes it IS a person) did something wrong, but because it is INCONVENIANT to her. d) since this inconveniance is not to her LIKEING she feels free to kill it.

we are talking about a fellow human and people still feel free to kill it just to make someones life EASYER. this sickens me. this could have been prevented by NOT doing something that carries the KNOWN risk of pregnancy. i don't even particulary care that this can be considdered a sin in it's self. what i care about is the fact that we can so carelessly and callisly kill someone who has never even had a chance at a good life. this child will be MURDERED just because the mother did not think about the consequences of her actions.

i will say on someones posting about the "rights"of the mother vs the "rights" of this baby. YES THE BABY SHOULD HAVE ALL THE RIGHTS ACORDED TO EVERYONE ELSE EVEN AT THE EXPENSE OF THE "RIGHTS" OF THE MOTHER. my reasoning? the parrents of this child had a CHOICE they had sex, they could have easily decided against it. by takeing this choice they have CREATED LIFE. this should be a time of rejoyceing. but no it is an imposition to them so "lets just kill it". the baby however has not made ANY decisions. it has had no choice in the matter. but acording to some this does not matter. the mother gave up her "rights" to her body by the very act of createing the child. her body is not wholy her own untill after the child is born. it is shared by as far as we know by concenting to the act of sex.

if you do not want to have a child the simplest solution is to abstain from sex. it realy isn't all that hard to do.you can take a chance and use some form of birth controll, not always effective but it does LOWER the chance at concieveing. if you want tyo make sure that sex will not produce offspring then there are two choices, the male can get himself neutered, or the female can either have her tubes tied or even removed. do you see how many options that the parrents have had? now what choice did the baby have? NONE, NO CHOICE AT ALL. yet you are willing to let someone be killed just because her mother is selfish, and dosn't want to carry this child.

yes lets rant about how all the pro-lifers are cruel and unjust in not wishing a human life be killed just because it was inconveiniant for the mother. gee officer my boss was standing in my way so i killed him because it was INCONVEINIANT for me to waite for a possition to open. like i could get off for that. most abortions are the same thing. if you are willing to have sex you should also be willing to go through with a pregnancy., it is not as if we do not know what sex is for. you know if this was like the 1700's i could feel some pitty for the girl. as back then she probaly would not have known what sex was for. today however our children are taught in school at a fairly early age what sex is. thefore there IS NO EXCUSE for getting pregnant.

pro-choicers make me sick at the thought that they can just kill because it is inconveiniant to have a child. ok so this girl is a teenager, guess what teenagers can and have given birth safely. she wouldn't even have to raise the child, she can give it up for adoption where some loveing couple who are unable to have children themselves can love this child like all children should be loved. not thrown in the trash due to the selfish desires of the mother.

funny that someone mentioned the fact that if this girl gives the child up that she will forever wonder about where that child is. it is also true that many who have abortions wonder what their child would have been like had it been alowed to live. both things are very sad to think about. but i imagine that the mother that did not murder her baby will feel just a little bit better about the fact that the child is alive somewhere. both my brother inlaw and his sister are both adopted. they are both glad that they were alowed to live, to experiance life. one has even begun to see her mother and has seemingly forgiven her for "abandoning" her. at least their respective mothers did not kill them off just to make their lives easyer.

[edit on 2-5-2005 by drogo]

ya, and if she dies because her body was too immature to have kids, maybe a nice lawsuit will be filed on her behalf against the state of florida!!!

so, people, if your spouse decided they don't want to have anymore kids, are you willing to remain celebate until menopause.
we keep having our focus put on those naughty little teens with their illigentamate sex....how many middle aged women have abortions every year, at the advice of their doctor, because of the increased risk to them due to their age? And, well, it seems that many of the same people who would like abortion outlawed, would also like men to be restored to their position of "king of the castle". so, well, shouldn't the king have the right to have sex whenever he likes? So where does this leave women....a feather, drifting in the wind, waiting to be batted in whatever direction the men in her life decides to bat her in next?

just to let you know dawnstar there is a nice little procedure that will stop you from haveing a pregnancy. it's called haveing your tubes tied. my sister had this done as she almost died due to complicatins of her last pregnancy. and guess what now there is no chance of her getting pregnant. a simple solution that does not require murder. nor if you like you can do what a friend of mine has done (after 5 kids in about 6 years), and have a vasectamy done. again no risk of haveing anymore kids now. this has nothing to do with a males possition, everything to do about not killing innocent babies.

Originally posted by drogo
just to let you know dawnstar there is a nice little procedure that will stop you from haveing a pregnancy. it's called haveing your tubes tied. my sister had this done as she almost died due to complicatins of her last pregnancy. and guess what now there is no chance of her getting pregnant. a simple solution that does not require murder. nor if you like you can do what a friend of mine has done (after 5 kids in about 6 years), and have a vasectamy done. again no risk of haveing anymore kids now. this has nothing to do with a males possition, everything to do about not killing innocent babies.

neither proceedure is 100% effective. a vasectomy requires the husband's approval (of course), and a tubal costs money....if your a stay at home mom....like so many of the same crowd want you to be, just who is paying for the proceedure...if he decides he wants to....

Originally posted by Truth_Hunter_1976
IF it was RAPE I think that this fact would have been brought up in the case QUITE a LONG time ago.........

So a 13 year old is adult enough to make decisions about having sex, but not adult enough to make a decision about abortion?

It doesn't work both ways.

If you are going to condemn her for being a reckless whore that should have kept her legs closed, then you can't tell her that she is too young to decide what to do with her body. If you are judging her to be old enough to be fully aware of the consequences of having sex, then she is also old enough to be fully able to make a decision about having an abortion.

If you are going to tell her that she is too young to decide to have an abortion, then it also follows on that she is also too young to realize the consequences of having sex and too immature to understand what sex really is--meaning that someone took advantage of her ignorance. And that would be rape. Are we now denying 13 year old girls that are raped the right to terminate an unwanted pregnancy?

This is a 13 year old girl that we are talking about here--does anybody else remember what they were like at 13? Add to that the abuse she suffered at the hands of her parents, the state, and the street, and you have a child who is confused and victimized.

Getting pregnant was not her fault. She is not seeking an abortion because the pregnancy is "inconvenient"--she is a 13 year old girl.

A better way of looking at it is what would you do if your 13 year old girl ran away from home and came back pregnant and the doctor said that she has a better chance of survival if she has an abortion rather than carrying to term? If she begged you to let her have an abortion, would you force her to have the baby as punishment? Don't you think that would change her life forever--whether you kept the baby or gave it up for adoption?

The draconian way that some of you are judging her is frightening. But what is even more frightening is the punishment that some people are so eager to bring down upon a 13 year old girl--punishment that will ensure that the hole that her so-called guardians have put her will be too deep for her to pull herself out of.

Children make mistakes because they are incapable of knowing the difference between right and wrong--especially when they haven't had any role models as examples. Why is this girl being forced to live with something that wasn't her fault--for the rest of her life?

Originally posted by lmgnyc
It doesn't work both ways.

Dear Truth Hunter,


DAMN, you just got served.


Sincerly,
Brimstone


P.S. I don't mean to negate the seriousness of the thread, just point out the absurdity of some of the more 700 Club type responses so far. The "Life at Any Costs" crowd truly scares me sometimes.

I as a woman can see on this post the bias still going around by some pro life, religious rights pushers making decisions and monitoring women's uterus and choices.

This is child and she should NO be pregnant. End of discussion.

The state is at fault and she is a victim of her environment and her tragic situation.

She didn't asked anybody here including pro life pushers to be born be rejected by her parents and to be pregnant at 13.

Our society and our system fail her and it fail to protect her as a child the same way that two other girls in florida has died so far by predators.

Does anybody knows how many children in her situation are in our country?

You better get a reality check for all the Pro life pushes is plenty of unwanted children been abuse and dying in our very soil.

But I don't see any of the same pro life pushers helping or adopting any of those children either.

The hypocrisy is overwhelming.

I never quite understood the Womans right to Choose.......If I chose to Murder someone I WOULD GO TO JAIL....Then there the Well it`s My BODY Theory...Well if your Gonna kill the Child Kill your self.My Body my Butt I do not give a Flying Flip rather it`s your body or not Life is Life regardless rather its IN or OUR out I have a 7month old daughter and the thought of the way an ABORTION is done Disgusts me.IF this Travesty is allowed to take place I hope she Hemmorages to death and passes her daughter as she goes to Heaven and the Mother goes to Hell The Mother is OBVIOUSLY not INNOCENT .....Live with your Choices ..do the right thing give it up for Adoption....one day in your Thirty`s When you are a MATURE ADULT you will understand the RIGHT decssision WAS MADE for you.

Originally posted by Truth_Hunter_1976
IF this Travesty is allowed to take place I hope she Hemmorages to death

So, you support abortion in the 39th trimester, but not the third?

I bet they hide the STONES at your house.

Originally posted by Truth_Hunter_1976
I never quite understood the Womans right to Choose.......If I chose to Murder someone I WOULD GO TO JAIL....Then there the Well it`s My BODY Theory...Well if your Gonna kill the Child Kill your self.My Body my Butt I do not give a Flying Flip rather it`s your body or not Life is Life regardless rather its IN or OUR out I have a 7month old daughter and the thought of the way an ABORTION is done Disgusts me.IF this Travesty is allowed to take place I hope she Hemmorages to death and passes her daughter as she goes to Heaven and the Mother goes to Hell The Mother is OBVIOUSLY not INNOCENT .....Live with your Choices ..do the right thing give it up for Adoption....one day in your Thirty`s When you are a MATURE ADULT you will understand the RIGHT decssision WAS MADE for you.

I think the above speaks volumes about the true nature of the "Culture of Life" agenda.

But I give "Truth Hunter" credit for at least being honest about how the fundamentalist Christians feel, unlike the politicians that are benefiting from this movement.

If Bill Frist, Rick Santorum, Jeb Bush, and GWB would actually come out and tell everyone that disagrees with their Christian agenda to commit suicide or die a bloody death and go to hell, it would make the national discourse a lot clearer.

If Bill Frist, Rick Santorum, Jeb Bush, and GWB would actually come out and tell everyone that disagrees with their Christian agenda to commit suicide or die a bloody death and go to hell, it would make the national discourse a lot clearer.

Truer words are rarely spoken. They're as duplicitous as any other group I've ever encountered. All this talk about family values, but what they're really thinking is "YOU GO TO HELL! YOU GO TO HELL AND YOU DIE!"

Brimstone
Nice catch.

In general: The girl wasn't tossed out on the streets, at least as far as the information available. She was given up to the state from a 'broken home.' And the comment that maybe she'll think twice about having sex if she delivers, is actually sort of backed up by statistics, Seekerof provided them earlier. Just thought I'd point that out. So, despite the unpopularity of the comment, it's not entirely innaccurate.

In any case, I don't think the judge has any legal authority to prevent the girl from having an abortion. If he does, it would be news to me. Unless he's ruling that she's mentally incompetent, and in that case there might be some validity to his ruling. I don't know actually, what the basis of his ruling was. Is the court transcript available?

So, old enough to choose to have sex, but not an abortion..... WTF?
So, give birth and die, or don't and live...... The arguement to have it is what?
So, she a whore, keep her legs closed, but force her to have something that will probably kill her...... WTF?
So, go away NAZIs, you can control yourself, but not other people. WHats next on your agenda? round up the jews?

I'm going to simplify my views on this;

Let's say it wasn't rape, let's say it was consensual. Well it was her choice so the baby was partially her fault. So she doesn't really have the right to kill the innocent child. So unless doctors feel that the child birth would have a good chance of complications then I think that she'll just have to deal with it. Sorry but every choice in life has consequences. Abortion in cases like the one I just described are the easy way out at another's expense.

Now let's pretend it was rape. Now remember many rapes happen latter at night and the girl is often highly distressed. Chances are she wouldn't have gotten a good look at the attacker's face. So theres a good chance she wouldn't recognize the offender. Anyhow if this were the case I feel bad for her. However I don't think she should have an abortion. Yes she will go for another 6 months with various problems. She will have to eat more food, she'll look fat, she'll be labeled a slut, she's lost her virginity, and she'll undergo immense pain. However for those of you with kids, don't you think that your child was worth all that? Yes those are things I'm thankful I'll never go through but it's a human life here. If I had to I'd take a knife in the back if it meant saving another persons life.

Either way unless qualified doctors say that the child birth poses a strong chance of life threatining complications then the child's life is worth the pain and discomfort. Her choice or not it's an innocent child's life, I'm sure that the pain will be worth it.

and let's pretend that she was hungry, and struck up a deal...ya know, some play time for you, a big mac, large fries, and med coke for me!!! What the heck is a 13 year old doing living on the street anyways...a 13 year old who is the ward of the state at that??? And, why did she run away from the homes...not foster homes at that, I don't believe..group homes...was life there so crappy, she would rather live on the street? The foster care system is a disgrace across the nation! we can't treat the children we got in this world with very much decency....

and still no one even dares answer my question...are yous willing to practice what you are preaching to this young child? if your spouse was to decide they just didn't want to have a kid at the present time, would you be willing to abstain?

She getting the Damed Abortion........I hope she can live with herself

Originally posted by cyberdude78
Let's say it wasn't rape, let's say it was consensual.

It our laws is not such thing as consensual sex when a 13 year old child is involve but rape and child sexual abuse.

Now I the father was another 13 year old I wonder how the law goes about that.

I don't believe it was a 13 year boy than did it.

A few points.

First, as was just posted, this is rape by our societies standards consentual or not.

Second, the perspective on abortion is relative to ones morals (different from ethics, which is what the government should be based on, not morals). The religous right consider it murder. How many have swatted a fly, destroyed bees' nests, pulled out weeds. Are these not forms of life? Is this not murder also or are just humans special? (arrogance, anybody?)If you feel that having an abortion will send you to hell, then don't have one or, for a man, agree to take full responsibility once your lover has the child.

Third, I've seen it posted something to the effect, "why not let the child be born and be adopted by a loving family." This little girl was already lost in the system and the state failed her. There are so many kids that get lost in the system. Texas is already banning gay foster parents and adoptions. These are loving people but because of peoples moral beliefs they are not allowed. So now the hole in the system is even bigger. I'm not saying that aborting the kid is better than letting him fall through the system, but this, the system, is a problem.

Fourth, this is just another pawn being used by political agendas for what is really should be a non-political issue. the government is a business and just as cutthroat as any other.

Fifth, how is this gonna teach her a lesson, when she can't even raise the kid? What lesson is there to be taught in the first place? How is she supposed to learn this stuff in school when she's homeless and the funds for education keep getting cut? Here's the lesson. There are many people whose life does not consist of a nice little house with a picket fence in a quiet little community. There is only one thing that matters and that is survival. Being pregnant, she will have to find more food, the clothes she has will not fit her by the time she gets further along, what does she do then? Steal? of course not, thats a crime.

I don't care if it is against god, allah, buddah, Jesus frickin crist, survival comes first. At then end whoever, whatever we have to answer to if anything, will decide if we made the correct choice, not someone who believes they know the only version of the truth.

In the end she is the mother, no matter her age. She should have final say on what happens. The state is her guardian. They are responsible to sit her down, inform her on all the pro's and con's unbiasedly, and then let her make her own decision. She will have to live with the choice she makes, that is the consequence. It is not our decision. We may agree or disagree with what choice she makes, but it is not ours to make. Nor is it our right to judge her based on that choice.

Also of note, having your tubes tied is not a sure thing. A girl i knew my freshman year of college had her tubes tied and still got pregnant and it almost killed her.