NEWS: 13yr Old Denied Abortion By Florida Court.

Furthering on the information posted by slank, in addition to the possible risks to the mother, one must also consider the possible risks to the child from low birth weight, premature birth, and other causes.

From the same article slank posted:

Women's Age Maternal Deaths/1,000 Births Average Birth Weight Premature Births (%) Perinatal Deaths/1,000 Births
12 to 19 3.80 1.9 kg 20 29.6
20 to 30 2.55 2.5 kg 16 18.4
31+ 1.07 2.65 kg 11 4.3

With the mother being so young, the risks to her and the child are both equally great. This could also be compounded by enviornmental issues during pregnancy, such as if the mother uses drugs, any illnesses that may occur, etc.

There are many reasons that children this young should not have children. I think this girl should be allowed the abortion without having to suffer through court to be granted the right she already has within Florida State Law.

[edit to get table to appear properly]

[edit on 1-5-2005 by obsidian468]

This girl is definitely in a special circumstance...

She knows that if she has the baby, it will be taken away immediately. She knows there's no way she can support a child. She knows she's too young to effectively raise a child even if the state let her keep her baby.

The psychological damage than can result from abortion shouldn't be underestimated..however..in this case I believe the damage done, net, will be less if she gets the abortion she wants. As has been mentioned, the trauma resulting from having an unwanted baby must be equivalent to aborting an unwanted baby. Perhaps the risk of sterility is reduced in carrying the baby to term, but there are a host of other factors that seem to weigh in favor of abortion in this case.

The results might include increased promiscuity, or depression, or suicide, or alcoholism..there's no way of knowing because she's an individual, completely unpredictable like all good human beings.

That being said, we're pretty sure the abortion has less of a chance of killing her outright, and we're positive she won't be allowed to keep the child. I think this girl would be best served by the state in being left alone in this regard, and allowed to make the choice.

The state has no legal grounds by which to contest the abortion..that's interesting...
I think, then, that their strategy is to hold out in appeals until the abortion could be classified as 'late-term' and then use that as additional ammunition in another hearing, or a flurry of last minute motions designed to prevent the girl from going ahead with the procedure until it's too late.

I can't think of any other reason.

Is Florida playing a dangerous game here folks? They are straddling a number of fences, and seem to be pissing off everyone both with this issue, and the several that have come before (misplaced wards, dissapearing sex offenders, the tazered reservist, Schiavo). It doesn't even seem like they're playing one side over the other, they're just screwing up and getting a lot of people really mad, in general.

Any idea as to the motivation on the part of the State? What are they playing at here? Is this just good old fashioned incompetence, or are they increasing the effectiveness of some action down the road by 'priming the pump' so to speak?

Randall Terry Asks Jeb Bush to Step In

Radical Randy, best known for his opportunistic statements like "Schiavo is a gift from God for the religious right" and threats like "the Republicans will pay dearly should Terri be allowed to die" (something like that, who can keep up?) and the ever popular...

“I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good…Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a biblical duty, we are called by God to conquer this country. We don’t want equal time. We don’t want pluralism.” (Randall Terry, The News Sentinel, Fort Wayne, IN, Aug. 16, 1993)

...has submitted his latest theo-terrorist demands to our government via the Christian Wire Service:

To: National Desk

Contact: Randall Terry, President of Society for Truth and Justice, 904-819-9450, 904-687-9804 cell

Media Advisory, April 29 /Christian Wire Service/ -- The following text is from a letter sent today from Randall Terry to Governor Jeb Bush in regard to a pregnant 13 year old Florida girl known as "LG" who is currently in the custody of DCF:

Dear Governor Bush:

I am writing you concerning the pregnant 13 year old Florida girl known as "LG" who is currently in the custody of DCF.

I'm sure you are familiar with the details of this case, so I will press the most urgent point of the entire matter.

Governor Bush, under no circumstances should LG's baby be killed by abortion. I am begging you to not allow a repeat of the Terry Schindler fiasco, which results in the death of another innocent person.

Please Mr. Governor, use every means at your disposal to ensure that this innocent unborn child is brought to full-term, and delivered alive. Pro-abortion zealots at the ACLU and pro-abortion judges must not be allowed to snuff out the life of this unique human being.

Moreover, it is clear that LG is a deeply troubled young woman. God knows that she is probably the victim of multiple sexual crimes against her. If she is not already there, she is certainly on track for a long list of self-abusive and self-destructive behaviors which could (God forbid) bring her life to a tragic and premature end.

If she is permitted or pressured into having this abortion, it will be one more mountain of guilt that she will have to carry on her young back. This will be a horrifying, defining moment for her, which will bring no long term relief or solutions to her turbulent life, and will only compound her grief and the emotional crises she will face in the future.

For whatever reasons that Providence has permitted, the eyes of the nation continue to focus on life and death issues in Florida, and hence on you as our Governor. I pray that you will be a stalwart champion for life and justice, unflinching in the face of criticism, a man equal to the battles the lie before you.

Please fight for this baby's life, and do not surrender this unborn child to the hands of his would-be slayers under any circumstances.

God's peace and long life to you,

Randall Terry

cc: Governor Bush's press secretary; Legal Counsel for Governor's office

And I assure you he doesn't give a damn about yall's ridiculous debate about what's best for another human being that just wants all of us the hell out of it so she can determine the next 18 years of her life on her own.

At the end the girl will become a pawn of the "religious rights" and the "government"

Terry case was lost to them but this littler girl is going to fall right in their agendas.

She has not family and she has the state as a gardian, she is the perfect tool and the victim to be used to see how laws can be change in their favor or at least to try.

Seems like Florida is becoming the testing ground for many of the religious rights and the government to see how far they can play with the laws, our contitution and our rights to live our lifes without the church and big daddy telling us what to do.

Now as a minor doesn't she has the right to privacy? Or............as a guardian of the state she has not privacy in personal issues.

If she has that child she is not going to take care of it, she is homeless and has no way to provide for this child, so the child will be taken by the state. i don't think anyone in this thread has even realized this yet. The state is not saying that she is going to stay with the child at all, the state is just saying she is not old enough to decide to have an abortion.

[edit on 1-5-2005 by Muaddib]

Exactly, the state wants her to give birth, but she is no old enough to be pregnant either.

But the state wants her to give birth to a child and then have that child taken away because she can not take care of it.

She is a child she should not be pregnant at all and the state was not good enough to take care of her and provided for her well being.

The state neglected her and her needs allowing her to run away and become pregnant at thirteen she is still a child in our country by our own laws.

But now the state is going to decide that she should have a child.

By the way did the state is looking for the father to make sure she was not rape by and adult.

So if she was raped will she still be force to carry that child to term?

I see to many double standars here.

Its funny.

The anti abortion religous zealots, on one hand, are against "welfare mothers" and the state providing money and support for unwed moms and their kids. Yet they want a homeless girl, who is obviously niether old enough for financially well enough to support the kid be forced to have the kid, which will inevitably be taken away by the state. Hypocrisy at its finest.

Not only do we have a case of a person who is financially and mentally incapable of taking care of the kid, being homeless and living in a shelter, but her health and life, and that of her child's, are at risk. These zeaots and religous whack jobs are endangering this kids health and safety, period. People like that, in my honest opinion, are a greater threat to public safety and our constitutional freedoms than terrorists or foreign armies. I am more concerned with their activties and assaults on the constitution than I am of Bin Laden, Hussein, or anyone else for that matter. Remeber: Religous extremists, both Muslim and Christian, hate our freedoms and way of life, and will relentlessly attack them unless they are stopped.

Obviously, this poor kid has some serious problems. She is 13, homeless, and honestly, a victim. First, her parents or who ever obvious abandoned, neglected, or threw her out on the streets. Maybe it was because she was pregnant. If thats the case, her parents should certainly be held accountable, after all, had they been good parents, they would have taught her the birds and bees, and instilled important values, and teach her about sex, and how important it is for her not to become sexually active until she was older and more ready. Not always, but in the vast majority of cases, most 13 year olds do not become sexually active and get pregnant when they have loving, attentive parents who teach them right and wrong.

If she became pregnant after she was thrown out, she was more than likely taken advantage of by someone who used her helpless sad situation for their own gratification. There are so many predators out there who will take advantage of sad, homeless, unwanted kids, offering them shelter and food and the illusion of love and concern, while taking advantage of their bodies. Theres many kids out there who will do anything to feel loved and wanted when put in such a sitution, because usually their own families do not offer them that, and thats how they end up in these situations.

Regardless, you really cant blame this kid for her condition. She may not be mature for many other descisions, but I do think that she is capable of deciding whats best for her body, soul, and long term well being. She cannot be forced to have a kid she doesn't want, cant support, and frankly, could be hazardous to her health.

I hardly see this as some sort of rabid extreme femminist or activist issue, this is a case of the responsibility of the state to do everything it can to ensure that this child (which she is a child, shes not even out of puberty, since most girls usually start between 12-14) best interests are served, and not the interests of extreme religous whack jobs or other special interest groups, who dont care about the kid, but are more concerned with forcing their narrow moral standards down everyone elses throats whether they want it or not.

If Florida wont let her have an abortion, then perhaps someone will take her to another state in secret where she can have a legal and medically safe and sound abortion.

Originally posted by Muaddib
If she has that child she is not going to take care of it, she is homeless and has no way to provide for this child, so the child will be taken by the state. i don't think anyone in this thread has even realized this yet. The state is not saying that she is going to stay with the child at all, the state is just saying she is not old enough to decide to have an abortion.

[edit on 1-5-2005 by Muaddib]

Sorry to go a little off topic here, but Muaddib, everyone on this thread is aware that if she carries the child to term, she's not going to be able to keep it. That was never a point of debate here. She's too young to be a mother. We all know it. The state of Florida knows it, and SHE knows it, hence why she wants the abortion.

Also to note, if this girl has a history of abuse (probably likely, having been abandoned by her parents and having to live in the child welfare system, which is often very hard on children), any abuse that she endured prior to this is nothing compared to the abuse that this whole issue is. Anyone supporting forcing this child to have a child is guilty of a horrible act of child abuse - one that, in my opinion, is worse than beating, sexual abuse, or emotional abuse. Forcing a child to bear a child is a lifelong scar and severe future problems just waiting to happen.

This little girl is 13 years old. Anyone who can remember who they were at this age or has children of this age can see the possibility for damage that this whole issue is causing for this child. Force her to have a child now, pay for her drug rehab, prison stays, and other expenses to the state that severe abuse to a child can cause as an adult in the future. Let's just turn this little girl into a prostitute and get it over with. Come on, it's all in the name of God! Let's destroy this little girl's life so that we can further our political agenda a little more!

Give her the goddamn abortion, and keep the media out of it. It sickens me that this has gotten any media attention at all, let alone that it could turn into another Schiavo case. The kid has the legal right to an abortion. Let her have it.

Well said obsidian. 13 is too young to decide whether to have the pork or the chicken, let alone issues of this magnitude.

I really hope this doesn't become the size of the Schiavo debacle, she didn't know what was going on. This child will be scarred for life.

I would hate to see that happen.

BTW, I have children her age and older.

And yes, I remember that age. Confusion.

This is an interesting case. To be honest I don't really think she's the right age to make the decision on her own. Yet if she's homeless who chooses for her?

I'm against abortion for the most part. But I'm going to say this is one of those cases were whatever is safer for the mother should be taken. However I do have a question. How does a 13 year old girl become homeless and not be put under foster care or something like that? I think thats where Florida really screwed up.

you know this is a sad case. she is going to be used to push both sides of the fight on abortions. this in it's self will have a bad effect on her.

but there is one thing that needs to be looked at. she got HERSELF into this mess. she is the one that got pregnate. i think that if she has the baby then she will learn from her mistake. even with all the ways to avoid pregnancy today she still got herself pregnant.

now befor eveyone starts on about the boy that got her this way. yes he should bear responsibility as well.after all it takes two to create a baby so BOTH should bear the responsibility. you know if we were to make both responsible for their actions, just mabe it will point out that if you deside that you want to have sex you should also be responsible for this possible outcome. why should someone not have to deal with the consequinces of their actions.

why should we condone murder just because "someone was young and stupid". it sounds cruel but no less cruel than murdering a baby just because it was concieved by not thinking things through. if it is ok to kill someone because of this then why can't we kill others? sure she "made a mistake". but that is not a good enough reason to murder. she did something and now she should live with the consequinces of her actions. if she and the father are incapable of careing for the child then they should at least pay for the state to care for it. this is no differant then being responsible for committing a crime. DO THE CRIME PAY THE TIME.

when someone does somethig good they reap the rewards from it, why should they not also reap the rewards for doing stupid things. if we give this child an abortion for her mistake, then we should let everyone out of prison as they only made mistakes as well. if we expect criminals to pay for their errors in judgement then why not hold a woman and the father of a child responsible for their errors in judgement? it is the same thing.

you know if we were to hold people responsible for their actins then, they and others will learn from it. she was oviously old enough to have sex and get pregnant, so she is old enough to live with the concequensis of her actions. if she dosn't want to "give up" the one who is the father or dosn't know who the father is then that would be her fault for not getting some support from the father of her child. if she was raped then once they find the father then he should be held responsible for financualy supporting the child.

abortion is murder and as such anyone involved in an abortion should face the penalties for said murder. it is the woman's right not to get herself in the possition of getting pregnate it was her choice as well as the man involved. if a drunk gets behind the wheel of a car and killes someone do we not hold them accountable for their action? after all it was their decision to drink, and then they decided to drive. same thing with sex. everyone knows that sex creates babies, heck they even teach this in school, so there is NO EXCUSE they got themselves pregnate they should have to deal with the product of their "haveing fun".

Good point but not all sex is consensual. She was homeless and would have been wandering the streets a lot, especially some bad areas. Take into account that she would have been an easy target for rapists, rape is a distinct possiblity. That and some of the homeless guys might have gotten a bit lonely.

Reader's Digest Summary:

Originally posted by drogo
she got HERSELF into this mess.

i think that if she has the baby then she will learn from her mistake.

And that's what's important here. Teaching that little 13 year old slut to keep her legs closed right?

DO THE CRIME PAY THE TIME.

Pre-marital sex is criminal behavior (for females). The punishment? Pushing an unwanted bowling ball out your vagina and raising it.

if we give this child an abortion for her mistake, then we should let everyone out of prison as they only made mistakes as well. if we expect criminals to pay for their errors in judgement then why not hold a woman and the father of a child responsible for their errors in judgement? it is the same thing.

It's the same thing. People in jail and motherhood. Logic 101.

you know if we were to hold people responsible for their actins then, they and others will learn from it.

Teach all those other 13 year old sluts a thing or two, right Pastor?

she was oviously old enough to have sex and get pregnant, so she is old enough to live with the concequensis of her actions.

The Virgin Mary was only 13. What's the big deal?

if she dosn't want to "give up" the one who is the father or dosn't know who the father is then that would be her fault for not getting some support from the father of her child. if she was raped then once they find the father then he should be held responsible for financualy supporting the child.

Again, it's all her fault, unless she was raped in which case we'll just insert her rapist in her life for the next 18 years to financially support her. What's jail pay again?

abortion is murder

Well, technically sure. Except for that whole part about it being a legal medical procedure, a valid reproductive decision for every other woman in America (not a ward of the Jeb state), and the fact it's actually not murder nor has it been since 1973.

everyone knows that sex creates babies, heck they even teach this in school, so there is NO EXCUSE they got themselves pregnate they should have to deal with the product of their "haveing fun".

And that's what's so frustrating about this situation. People "having fun." Burns me up. Makes my shift key go all crazy. There's NO EXCUSE for that.

What a tragically representative posting of the anti-choice agenda. Thank you Drogo. You made Randall Terry proud I'm sure.

Originally posted by RANT
Reader's Digest Summary:

Originally posted by drogo
she got HERSELF into this mess.

well she and a boy did. what i was refering to was that it would be her fault in she either did not tell who the father was or had too many possible males to know which one. after all other than the guy she would be the one who should know who is the father.

i think that if she has the baby then she will learn from her mistake.

And that's what's important here. Teaching that little 13 year old slut to keep her legs closed right?

nice word that you choose to use. and it is not only her but the father as well, who should be expected to help support said child.

DO THE CRIME PAY THE TIME.

Pre-marital sex is criminal behavior (for females). The punishment? Pushing an unwanted bowling ball out your vagina and raising it.

i did not mean to say that it was a crime (but at her age it most likely is considdered a crime). but to point out that actions have consiquences. also it is a beutiful baby not a piece of sporting equipement. if one does not want a child then they realy shouldn't have sex. if they want to have sex then they should use protection. even so a baby could result, that is something that should be thought of ahead of time by BOTH parties involved.

if we give this child an abortion for her mistake, then we should let everyone out of prison as they only made mistakes as well. if we expect criminals to pay for their errors in judgement then why not hold a woman and the father of a child responsible for their errors in judgement? it is the same thing.

It's the same thing. People in jail and motherhood. Logic 101.

perhapse that is part of the problem. a baby shold be a blessing not a punishment. why should someone who is pregnant get away from their consequences so easily. both parrents created a life they need to deal with that fact, just as a criminal needs to pay for their crimes. not that being pregnant is a crime. crime=punishment as to sex=parrenthood.

you know if we were to hold people responsible for their actins then, they and others will learn from it.

Teach all those other 13 year old sluts a thing or two, right Pastor?

again you do like that word don't you, it is yours not mine. i am NOT a paster, i am not even the best person. and why should people not be held acountable for their actions? you have sex there is the possibility of a child being createed, after all that is what sex is for remember. the fact that it is enjoyable is to make sure we have a reason to procreate.

she was oviously old enough to have sex and get pregnant, so she is old enough to live with the concequensis of her actions.

The Virgin Mary was only 13. What's the big deal?

as i understand it many people over the years had babies that young. so it is not a big deal. bialogicaly she is ready, it is only society that keeps us immature for so long.

if she dosn't want to "give up" the one who is the father or dosn't know who the father is then that would be her fault for not getting some support from the father of her child. if she was raped then once they find the father then he should be held responsible for financualy supporting the child.

Again, it's all her fault, unless she was raped in which case we'll just insert her rapist in her life for the next 18 years to financially support her. What's jail pay again?

it is the fault of both people involved, she she shares fault along with the father. and she would not have the "rapist" in her life, you should set up an "agency" that the "rapeist" would pay then turn the payments over to the mother (if she chooses to keep the child), there is no need for a rapeist to know anything other than he has a child somewhere, no need for him to be personaly involved.

abortion is murder

Well, technically sure.

Except for that whole part about it being a legal medical procedure, a valid reproductive decision for every other woman in America (not a ward of the Jeb state), and the fact it's actually not murder nor has it been since 1973.

it may be legaly santioned, but it is still murder. in fact the worse sort of murder, one with apsolutely no fault on the part of an innocent victome. that is the worst thing about abortion, the fact that it is the fault of the parrents that this is seen as a necisary killing. the victome is totaly blaimless for what happens to them. it is not as if they "forced" the act on the parrents or anything, they are the result of actions not the cause of actions.

everyone knows that sex creates babies, heck they even teach this in school, so there is NO EXCUSE they got themselves pregnate they should have to deal with the product of their "haveing fun".

And that's what's so frustrating about this situation. People "having fun." Burns me up. Makes my shift key go all crazy. There's NO EXCUSE for that.

blowing up your tv can also be fun, but then you have no tv. action=consequence. there are many "fun" things that one can do. the choice is up to the individuals invoved. it makes me upset as well, people do thing without thinking about what can happen. there realy is no excuse for getting yourself into that possition. sex is even taught to nine year olds, so it can't be said that they don't understand what can happen if they have sex. they had choices from abstanance (the best way) to spermicide. if one is not prepared for the worst that is their fault, both for the male and the females involved. there realy is no excuse for getting prenate without forethought.

What a tragically representative posting of the anti-choice agenda. Thank you Drogo. You made Randall Terry proud I'm sure.

who is randell terry? never heard of them. sounds like whoever it is usees their brain for more than it's sex drive. thing is if one decides to have sex they need to remember that they could end up with a child to look after. if people would just THINK about what they are ultimately doing, just perhaps they wouldn't find a need for killing the product of their actions. two wrongs do not make a right after all. if one decides that they want to have sex they should keep in mind what the end result could be.

[edit on 2-5-2005 by drogo]

"did not mean to say that it was a crime (but at her age it most likely is considdered a crime). but to point out that actions have consiquences. also it is a beutiful baby not a piece of sporting equipement. if one does not want a child then they realy shouldn't have sex. if they want to have sex then they should use protection. even so a baby could result, that is something that should be thought of ahead of time by BOTH parties involved. "
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So, all you MARRIED couples out there.....considering the fact that NO BIRTH CONTROL is 100% reliable, and that THERE ARE true genuine health conditions that when pregnacy is added to the picture the the risk of harm to the health of the mother is increased significantly, and I believe being only 13 years old would be one!!, so, considering it all...
Would you, if told by your spouse that she or he wishes not to have children, definately doesn't want anymore, under any circumstances, willing to abstain from sex until menopause?

They ARE endangering this girls life here! And, in doing so, they are saying that the life of an unborn fetus is more worthy of protection than that of a 13 year old girl... So, just what do the pro-lifers want? Do they want to grant the full constitutional rights to an unborn child but then strip them away, once it is born and found to be female, or will those loss of rights occur when she reaches enough maturity (physically) to concieve children?
Add this case to the ban on late term abortions, without any consideration to the health of the mother, and the idea of forcing c-sections on women, well, I think this is exactly what they want!

So men, are you willing to refrain from sex with your wife until menopause if she desires not to have kids..FOR ANY REASON?

Aside from recoiling from the four letter word that perfectly summarizes your entire position on the matter, you've pretty much just confirmed everything I said Drogo. Your argument on what should be done with the uterine contents of a total stranger are based on your assements of character. Those of the 13 year old girl (you don't know) and your universal prescriptions for all of mankind (you also don't know). Your personal determination about the purpose of sex, the appropriate punishments for having sex, and (the most bizarre thing I've read in days) the idea that that a 13 year old girl (again you don't know) needs to be taught a lesson by the state by forcing her into an unwanted labor.

Bizzare. Simply bizarre. And yet quite common. Some of the recent editorials and blogs and opine on the net about this one case have been the most revealing on the actual thoughts of "pro-lifers" I've ever had the displeasure of reading. Children are punishment, repercussions, deserved, Scarlet Letters infact. The wages of sin I suppose, eh?

Bizzare. Simply bizarre. All I know is a child doesn't want to push another one out of her still developing body. And some people are just so giddy at the concept of forcing her to do so, it's sickening.

[edit on 2-5-2005 by RANT]

About par for the course in the land of "democracy and freedom" (TM) .

As if you have a right to choose whats happens to your body... the court will decide for you.

The court also decided your president.... and its not as if they even bother to counts votes anymore either.

You have the right to do exactly as we say!!!

falling ionto the thread now. it is not easy to judge.
but i think that someone should have told the girl that sex aat 13, it's a bit too early. and so it is right that a judge come into that because if she is pregnant at that age, then it means that she surely has some personal issue and that she cannot really decide for herself. as for the parents fo the girls, well they should be judge for bad education, if that exists!

Originally posted by RANT
Aside from recoiling from the four letter word that perfectly summarizes your entire position on the matter, you've pretty much just confirmed everything I said Drogo. Your argument on what should be done with the uterine contents of a total stranger are based on your assements of character. Those of the 13 year old girl (you don't know) and your universal prescriptions for all of mankind (you also don't know). Your personal determination about the purpose of sex, the appropriate punishments for having sex, and (the most bizarre thing I've read in days) the idea that that a 13 year old girl (again you don't know) needs to be taught a lesson by the state by forcing her into an unwanted labor.

Bizzare. Simply bizarre. And yet quite common. Some of the recent editorials and blogs and opine on the net about this one case have been the most revealing on the actual thoughts of "pro-lifers" I've ever had the displeasure of reading. Children are punishment, repercussions, deserved, Scarlet Letters infact. The wages of sin I suppose, eh?

Bizzare. Simply bizarre. All I know is a child doesn't want to push another one out of her still developing body. And some people are just so giddy at the concept of forcing her to do so, it's sickening.

[edit on 2-5-2005 by RANT]

It is some realy good family values to teach our kids, isn't it? You're a curse onto your mothers!!! Ya, I like it...should do wonder for their self esteem!!!