"Bad Intelligence" - "Americans, it would seem, are the ideal audience for propagandists..."

"Americans, it would seem, are the ideal audience for propagandists..."

"Americans, it would seem, are the ideal audience for propagandists, precisely because they don't believe they are being propagandized. We have just seen the U.S. government cry wolf, then admit there was no wolf, and still maintain its credibility. How is that possible?

When a subject is selectively reported, misrepresented, or contextualized with biased phrases, keywords, and images, well, that's the definition of propaganda. The undisputed masters of this tyranny of the mind are the media and the government. Working in tandem and armed with a public trust, these forces derail the train of truthful thought in society and oil the machinery of war and prejudice. Whether politically or commercially motivated, fight provoking displaces thought provoking; condemnation precludes diplomacy; and media distortion, like human subjectivity itself, is constant.

The most effective means of state propaganda is a mixture of fear and constant repetition. Once you've established yourself as the good guys, you can sell almost any idea and justify virtually any action. "

Read the whole article (Click on the link at the top) Couldn't have said it better myself!

It's so clear to me that America has been duped. Why can't everyone see it?

No we just like bush we want all the oil and we like killing women and children, we also love the ego boost of knowing we can kick anyones ass in this world, and the fact we can get away with anything, when we are done the middle east will be a crater and we will own all the oil.

It's no secret, propaganda is used on all sides. You have been attempting to spread your own on thread after thread. Painting the U.S. as the sole aggressor in every situation, thirsty for the blood of as many innocent civilians we can get our fangs in. You accuse the U.S. of planning to invade Iran, which would never happen, at the most surgical strikes on the nuclear facilities you say the "peaceful" Iranian leaders would never use against us. The "peaceful" leaders you said never chanted "Death to America" in parliament, which they did and when I pointed it out to you, you didn't respond. The U.S. government is guilty of underhanded activities, but so is your government and just about every other government, I'm sick of mine being singled out. In addition to parliament chanting "Death to America", let's look at some of Iran's "peaceful" activities against the west in the past, before Bush backed them against the wall, as many say:

During the 1980s, Iranian and pro-Iranian agencies were involved in the planning and execution of attacks against Western targets, particularly in Lebanon. In the context of opposition to Western Influence, the Islamic Jihad and Hizballah, under instructions from Iran, carried out a series of attacks against Western representatives. Among them:

The suicide bombing of the American embassy in Beirut (18 April. 83), which killed 61 people and left more than 120 wounded.
The suicide bombing of the Marines headquarters in Beirut (23 Oct.83), which killed 39 and wounded 40 people.
The suicide bombing of the French army barracks in Beirut (23 Oct. 83), which killed 74 and wounded about 15.

www.ict.org.il...

Interesting article, it lists Iran's past support for terrorism not only against the west, but other targets as well. And we should just sit around while they obtain nuclear weapons to provide terrorists with the means to hurt us worse than they already have? No way.


[edit on 29-4-2005 by 27jd]

So we need to bomb them now, because they supported terrorist attacks on US forces in Lebanon twenty years ago?

Makes perfect sense to me

Originally posted by xmotex
So we need to bomb them now, because they supported terrorist attacks on US forces in Lebanon twenty years ago?

Makes perfect sense to me

Yeah, that's exactly what I said, we need to bomb them, the entire country.

I think we may need to take out their nuclear capabilities if they continue to pursue nuclear weapons, because their GOVERNMENT, not the people, still support terrorism, and if given the chance, the men shouting "Death to America" , not 20 years ago, but now, in what should be a professional governing body, I believe would not hesitate to provide the tools to try and make their wishes reality. I do not wish any harm on the people of Iran, who are as nice as anybody.

Yes, we've been duped, but I think the attitude is close to "well, we elected him, we only need to deal with him for another 3 years now...."

And that's really the truth of it, but the thing is, we haven't really had many better choices lately. What America needs right now is a solid leader instead of a rich little kid.

Anyway, on the subject of Americans being easily propaganized, I think it is true for those who get sucked in by the propaganda, but I think that represents very few Americans. I still think that Americans are of above average intelligence and can recognize deceit. The problem really is that people really don't care to do anything about it. They are complacent with their stuff to enough an extent that they don't feel they have to care.

Young people are impressionable, and not so wise to the ways of the world yet, and that could be a problem like it is in some muslim countries and dictatorships like N. Korea. I don't think our kids are threatened by this because they don't listen to us, or any adult, and if they do, they promptly convince themselves that whatever an adult has to say just HAS to be wrong.

That just may be our saving grace, this millenial generation...



[edit on 29-4-2005 by DeltaChaos]

Originally posted by Siroos
The most effective means of state propaganda is a mixture of fear and constant repetition. Once you've established yourself as the good guys, you can sell almost any idea and justify virtually any action. "

Read the whole article (Click on the link at the top) Couldn't have said it better myself!

You seem to know a lot about propaganda yourself. I am sure that it is just for peaceful means and you would ship the enriched "propaganda" back to Russia?

You wouldn't be stereotyping another country would you?

Unfortunately you can't just bomb a government without taking out some civilians too, no matter how accruate JDAM's might be.

Any airstrike is likely to ignite a larger conflict, I doubt the Iranians ar just going to sit back and absorb the strikes without retaliating in some way, probably against US forces in the Persian Gulf and/or Iraq.

Any preemptive strike is also likely to unite the Iranians behind their government, not a good thing if we want to encourage reformers there.

Frankly, I think the Iranians are likely to get their nukes, the program is spread all over Iran, knocking it out in a single blow like Osirak is not going to work. I don't think there is much the US can do about it, not without making things considerably worse than they already are.

Why state this? You are stating the obvious.

A nation full of pride for their doings in the past will obviously be suitable for propaganda. ESPECIALLY because the nation hasn't done anything REALLY to an extent before.

Let's look at other prideful countries that fell to propaganda:

- Russia under Trotsky/Stalin
- Germany under Hitler
- Cuba under Castro
- Even the CHURCH under the medievil rulers.

It happens to every prideful country, and, if you believe it is happening now to the U.S. (which not everyone does), it will happen after the U.S.

If you believe it is happening now, let's not play the blame game and call the U.S. the "anti-christ" or the "NWO" because of this. After this occurence, it will happen elsewhere.

Actually, there has been around 20 - something genocides in the past century because of propaganda. If you want a list, ask me.

That's about it. Nothing can be done so just let it pass, in ten years it will happen somewhere else, then you can call them the NWO

-wD

Siroos,

My advice to you is too ignore people like 27 and Ed. They will do nothing but bait you into an argument that will result in warnings and bans. Even bait you in to creating a thread such as this. They are extremists, almost as fanatical in their beliefs as the AQ and the people they hate so much.

I agree with Ed and 27 and you Siroos on one thing, extremists should be gone or silenced or something. However, we are looking in the wrong place. It isn't Iraqis or Iranians or Sirians or North Koreans or Americans or Europeans or Africans, or any of the people we have been mediawashed into thinking are all trying to kill us. Its the extremists, they are few, but they are everwhere and subscribe to every religion/belief/system you can imagine.

If you do not want to see propaganda, do not visit this site. This site is about extreme headlines and news. People present news here in an off the wall slightly extreme way. Its funny most of the time, but very disturbing at other times.

I personally think you should have not made this thread Siroos, it is reactionary. I have enjoyed your previous posts, but I have not enjoyed this one.

Originally posted by xmotex
Frankly, I think the Iranians are likely to get their nukes, the program is spread all over Iran, knocking it out in a single blow like Osirak is not going to work. I don't think there is much the US can do about it, not without making things considerably worse than they already are.

I must disagree, I don't think they will get them. Hopefully, they give up the weapons program peacefully, through pressure from the EU and Russia. If not they're spread out over about 12-14 facilities, from what I understand. We can easily hit them all as long as we know where they are, and I'm sure we have a good idea. Hopefully, it doesn't come to that, I agree a larger conflict would be terrible. But so would the religious fundamentalist leaders of Iran getting nuclear weapons, our goal as humans should be to try as hard as we can to get the nuclear genie back in the bottle. Allowing more and more nations to get them will only ensure they will be used eventually.

Wow, they do not have a WMD weapons program(huge big nuke bombs in your language) They just want cheaper and more efficient energy. They have HUGE amounts of Oil. They can make big money selling it to idiot SUV drivers and therefore benefit their economy.

Which bit of this basic economic common sense do you guys not understand? This really isn't rocket science(pun not intended.......maybe it was).

Originally posted by Kriz_4
Wow, they do not have a WMD weapons program(huge big nuke bombs in your language)

You're just assuming they don't. We all know that the first three letters of assume are don't we?

You have no idea what Iran is doing, maybe you should read up, here's a pre-Bush article on Iran's nuclear ambitions:

Although Iran had been a party to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) since 1970, it is believed to have pursued a secret nuclear weapons program since the mid-1980s. Iran’s motives for nuclear weapons stem from its rivalry with Iraq, from its quest for preeminence in the Persian Gulf, and, possibly, from the desire for a deterrent against major power intervention.

In 1996 congressional testimony, CIA Director John M. Deutch said: "We judge that Iran is actively pursuing an indigenous nuclear weapons capability. . . . Specifically, Iran is attempting to develop the capability to produce both plutonium and highly enriched uranium. In an attempt to shorten the timeline to a weapon, Iran has launched a parallel effort to purchase fissile material, mainly from sources in the former Soviet Union." Iran’s indigenous uranium-enrichment program appears to be focused on the development of gas centrifuges. U.S. intelligence testimony in 1996 indicated that Iran’s nuclear weapons program was still at a relatively rudimentary stage, at least eight to ten years away from producing nuclear arms—or less with foreign assistance.

Iran’s efforts to acquire nuclear arms has gone hand in hand with Iran’s promotion of Islamic fundamentalism through violence and subversion. The Clinton Administration has branded Iran a "backlash state" because of its sponsorship of terrorism and assassination, subversion of the Middle East peace process, campaign to intimidate smaller countries in the Gulf region, and its human rights abuses. Washington has sought to contain Iran through an energetic campaign of diplomatic isolation and wide-ranging economic sanctions—some targeted on its weapons-of-mass-destruction and missile programs.
www.ceip.org...

Oh yeah, speaking of the first three letters in assume....

Originally posted by Kriz_4
Wow, they do not have a WMD weapons program

the article goes on......

Iran is believed to have one of the world’s largest chemical weapon (CW) stockpiles and reportedly acquired stocks of biological weapons (BW) for the first time in 1996. Iran might soon be able to mate these weapons with ballistic missiles. Iran possesses the 300-km range Scud-B and the 500-km range Scud-C missiles and is able to strike targets in Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and elsewhere in the Persian Gulf region. Iran is also seeking to acquire the 1,000-km range Nodong missile from North Korea, which would enable it to target Israel for the first time. In addition, Iran is working on a missile with a 1,300-1,500 km range with assistance from Russian firms, and seeking to develop the Shahab-3 and Shahab-4 ballistic missiles with ranges up to 2,000 km.

Thus, although Iran probably is at least eight to ten years away from acquiring nuclear weapons, it may be able to threaten its adversaries’ population centers with other mass destruction weapons far sooner. Iran appears to be following the model adopted by Iraq in the 1980s: obtaining "strategic" capabilities based, initially, on more easily developed chemical and biological weapons while working toward the acquisition of nuclear arms.

Do you even bother with knowing what you're talking about before you spout off against my country, or has it just become a reflex?

Also, you labeled me an extremist like Ed, which proves beyond the shadow of a doubt that you have no idea what you are talking about. I have argued against Ed on several occasions, and I have argued beside him on a few others. I don't fit any mold, and I'm far from extreme or blindly patriotic. Get a clue, read some other posts of mine and you might feel differently.





[edit on 29-4-2005 by 27jd]

Originally posted by Kriz_4
Wow, they do not have a WMD weapons program(huge big nuke bombs in your language) They just want cheaper and more efficient energy. They have HUGE amounts of Oil. They can make big money selling it to idiot SUV drivers and therefore benefit their economy.

Which bit of this basic economic common sense do you guys not understand? This really isn't rocket science(pun not intended.......maybe it was).

Seems like some non-Americans are lapping up your propaganda just fine Siroos!

I thought this thread was about Americans bending over. What happened?

Quote: "They can make Big Money selling it to Idiot SUV drivers and therefore benefit their economy."

Yeah - I really think that all of this "You are Free - You live in a Democracy" stuff is really starting to get Obnoxious! Especially since we have been living in a Totalitarian, Corporate Backed Police State ever since that Puppet "W" was Installed in 2000!

I remember (not too long - After the Iraq Invasion) I was taking a Jog around my Neighborhood. I saw this Vehicle that Had this beautiful Mural on the Back of it "Honor our Boys that Lost their Lives on 9/11 - We will Never Forget you" - or some Sappy stuff Like that - it also had the
Twin Towers on it & a Big American Flag in the Background!

The Vehicle in which this Touching Tribute was placed (on its Rear End) was this HUGE Commercial HUMMER TANK! I can't make this stuff up if I tried People! Don't you think that we have been a little Hypocritical? Don't you think that things like Abu Ghraib Expose our Hypocrisy? Gee - I wonder why they Hate us?

P.S. "Dick" Pearle was Recently Interviewed on TV & when Abu Ghraib was Mentioned he said "You know that the People Responsible for that have been Punished"! Really? A couple of LOW LEVEL Soldiers that were just Taking the Orders of their Superiors from on High (for the sake of Intelligence). THEY certainly were Punished & Treated like Scape Goats - But it doesn't take a Genius to figure out that someone pretty high up on the Chain of Command gave those Orders! Yet *NOT ONE* of these guys has been Punished or Reprimanded! Is this Administration/Government actually being held Accountable in any way at all? I really Wonder sometimes!




[edit on 29-4-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

Siroos,
If you believe this 'news' you posted you have just proved to the world that Iranians, it would seem, are the ideal audience for propagandists.

Check out the bottom of the article:

About the author:
Arash Norouzi is an artist, cat (gorbeh) lover and co-founder of The Mossadegh Project.

Now check out the link about the Mossadegh Project:

In 1953, he was overthrown by a U.S. funded CIA coup, arrested and tried as a traitor in military tribunal court. It was America's first successful dismantling of a foreign government, and Iran has not known democracy since.

Now tell me the author is sincere and is not spreading anti-US propaganda.

That's not propaganda, it's a well accepted fact that the CIA sponsored the coup that overthew Mossadegh, if you don't believe me just Google the man's name...

How do you think we got in this mess with Iran in the first place anyway?



[edit on 29-4-2005 by xmotex]

Originally posted by C0le
No we just like bush we want all the oil and we like killing women and children, we also love the ego boost of knowing we can kick anyones ass in this world, and the fact we can get away with anything, when we are done the middle east will be a crater and we will own all the oil.

Yes, you especially like threatening the beautiful, peaceful land of Iran, where all is milk and honey and manna falls from the heavens to feed us in our child-like innocence. Sweet soft music lulls us as we excel in the sciences and philosophies, and the skies are not cloudy all day...