NEWS: Texas School Board Adds Bible Class

Students in Odessa Texas will have the opportunity to take a class not offered in most public high schools; Bible studies. Tuesday night was not a usual Odessa school board meeting. There was full house, as more than 300 people rallied to voice their support for the proposed Bible class.



I can see the point in wanting to teach classes like this, but I doubt the ACLU will think likewise.

How can you teach evolution or creationist theories, without teaching the history of both?
The answer is clear you cannot, but here again; I see the ACLU arguing this is a violation between church and state, when in reality it is not. Personally I have no problem with teaching both theories and their histories.

Now who wants to make a bet on wither the ACLU will take this to the Supreme Court or not?


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Well I'm going to be honest, let them have the class. That is as soon as they have a Koran class, and a class for just about everyother major religion. I don't really think this concept is right for a number of reasons;

1. This class is taking up some teacher's paycheck in order to teach a religious belief with little scientific backing.
   
2. It only benefits Christians.
   
3. Seperation of church and state.
   
4. In a lot of cases kids are put in classes whether or not they want to be in them, even electives are sometimes given against the student's will.
   

i agree with cyberdude78, if there is a bible class it should have one for every reiligion, to be fair.

This is pushing of religious believes on one religion alone is not comparative learning here but only one side teaching.

This is another attempt to push more religious agenda on the school system for the benefit of one side.

If religion becomes an academic subject is should be fair to add all religions for comparative learning.

I expect some fights against this after all is obvious that the class will not be impartial to other religious believes and it will become controversial for students that are not from Christian background but from other cultural backgrounds.

Yes it will be some fights about this and it may make it up to the supreme court.

How can this be considered as pushing a religion, when the body of the story clearly stated the course would be an Elective course? No one is forcing anyone to take the class as I read it.

As long as its not a required course, it should be fine. Courses in all religions aren't realistic since they wouldn't have enough students to form a class. I couldn't continue in Latin in high school past the 2nd year since not enough people signed up for the class and they didn't form one.

That just doesn't sit well with me. Why not make it a literature class: The Literature of Religion or something like that. Allows students to read them without an agenda. I think everyone can benefit from and should be encouraged to read the bible, the koran and the torah simply because they are great works. But I don't like it packaged as History.

My 2 cents.


Bleys


[edit on 4/27/05 by Bleys]

As long as its an elective course I dont see a problem with it. I think a class in the larger world religions would be a good Idea myself and if pressed on the issue they would HAVE to give equal time to the other ones.

[edit on 27-4-2005 by Amuk]

As for the class being an elective, well theres a couple of problems with that as I just stated.

1. It takes up some teacher's paycheck no matter what.
   
2. Due to administrative incompetence kids are commonly forced into electives they don't want.
   

As for the class being an elective, well theres a couple of problems with that as I just stated.

It takes up some teacher's paycheck no matter what.

Due to administrative incompetence kids are commonly forced into electives they don't want.

I agree with you I know exactly how electives goes, they are "electives" but you have "mandatory electives"

Comparative Religion should be part of our nations curriculum due to our diverse population.

One religion alone is not, and belongs in the church or your choice no in the school system.

I agree with you I know exactly how electives goes, they are "electives" but you have "mandatory electives"

Would you care to elaborate on that Marg. I have never hear of any "mandatory electives" in our shools here.

Simple logic says if it is mandatory it cannot be elective.

Even my definition the two can not be put into the same context.

mandatory adj. 1. Required or commanded by authority

elective adj . Permitting or involving a choice; optional

It's sort of an oxymoron so to speak. I think marg was being sarcastic. If you don't understand mandatory electives than you might want to consult your local school district.

i think it is a good idea. as for other religions if there is enough call for it add it.personaly i would have loved takeing both a bible class and classes on other religions. in my highschool a class on the jewish religion would have been added as there was a high jewish population.

as for it being an elictive, good. if students are forced by the school to take certain elective courses then that school should be brought to the school boards attention so propper diciplenary action can be taken against the school officials. manditory classes you have to have, elective courses you need a certain amount of (i took mostly shop classes), but there is no "spacific" course that is needed it is your choice on what to take.

another good "el;ective course that should be added is one compareing differant religions to each other. i am sure that many priests, ministers, muljadeens (i think thats the right term), buddist monk, rabies ect.would be willing to help teach it. any religigion needs to be represented that there is someone qualified to speak on the beleif systom. this would promote all religions and alow students to use "fact" when makeing up their minds about other religions. right from the horses mouth so to speak.

.
I am kind of split on this one

They aren't trying to drag religion into a science class. (for the first time)

If it is an elective and totally up to the students [not the parents or teachers] who chooses to take it, that is better.

But should taxpayers be expected to support a class indoctrinating people to one particular religion or another? Doesn't that run exactly counter to the clause of 'not establishing a religion' in the constitution? Doesn't this allow one particular religion to use the school essentially part time as a church?

What would be amazing if they actually did real critical historical and literary analysis on the bible and not just use it as an excuse for a Sunday School session. If that were the case then I really don't have a problem with it. If it allows people to gain insight into the lives and societies from our shared past it could be quite educational. (This will of course happen exactly when pigs fly)
.

No it is NOT a good idea
the Idea STINKS and im ready to sue!!!

I was BORN and RAISED in ODESSA TEXAS OK?

i know these people PERSONALLY lol and they are mostly fundamentalist jerks they dont know a *@#% thing about Science at all

They DO force mandatory electives; I went to Permian High School there remember our movie Friday Night Lights; it was just released last year!

There is the day that "everyone starts picking classes for next year" well; all the students who were last in line; and the new students; all get stuck in classes they DID NOT PICK
i know this personally because it happened to me every single year i went to high school in Odessa texas
i graduated from permian high in 1999

i know how things work in odessa
i know how the city government works
i know what the teachers and school administration is like

once all of the "cool" elective classes are picked; the last handful of classes are AUTOmatically delt to whomever at random
it happened to me yall; just hear me out

Odessa is a city with a drug abuse rate equal to LA ghettos like Compton or Watts
i am NOT lying or exaggerating
Odessa is right in the MIDDLE of the biggest central american drug route
there is constant drug busts
and get this

I have PERSONALLY seen cops in Odessa texas breaking every constitutional law possible

I have caught a police officer smoking weed
I have seen a police officer punk a dealer for a free Ounce of weed
I have seen the Drug Task Force raid a house where a guy sold Cocain and they took his stash (half a kilo) and they did NOT PRESS CHARGES ON ANYONE!!!!
They just left....they stole this dudes cocain LOL!!!
no one went to jail
but homeboy lost his dope thats for sure !

I once got busted with less than a bowl of marijuana in Odessa
The 3 police officers who were there;
they Threatened my LIFE!!!
they said "tell us where you got it or i WILL KILL YOU!!!"
he then threatened to get his dog to bite me
they slammed me around and physically punk'd me
i said "what is your badge number!" and BOOM my face is flat on the car man it hurt pretty bad!
i swear i wasnt being a smart*@$ until AFTER they threatened to kill me!
and after they punk'd me i didnt say anything more

i swear on my soul my life my baby girl
its the Truth nothing but the Truth So Help ME God!

Ok now that you have a basic understanding of What odessa Is;
I will describe the "other side" of Odessa
we locals call it "Slow-Detha"

The other side is a whole lot of hypocritical fundamentalist christians
they are absolutely psychotic in their devotion and will hurt anyone to protect their faith
i have been jumped (had the crap beaten out of me) by these so called christians before because I said something they didnt like
they are absolute hypocrits
and what did the other christians do? Nothing
because their liars!

so what if im emotionally bias due to my horrible expierances??
wouldnt you be ? too?

as to the subject of them forcing The Bible onto kids
its Nothing New
they been doing it in Biology class for years

i was in all the Honors science classes when i attended permian high
1997-1999
In Honors Biology
the word "evolution" was Banned 100%
you can NOT mention Evolution, Darwin or anything of the sort
But they DID teach creationism
and all the xtians in my classroom rellished in it
and they loved it when i would argue agianst it , and the teacher would say "God made it so"
they would all act like i was totally disproved

They are TwoFaced; hypocritical; insulting; assulting; dangerous people
These are the people who vote en masse for Bush

Yes true; perhaps Not all of them are like that
Im certain that not all of them are
My friends were not like them
I wasnt either

but keep in mind; we are the Small Minority
over 90% of them are totally fanatical about their Literalist interpretations of the Bible
heck they successfully omitted Evolution from Honors Biology 1 and Biology 2 !!
and they successfully implemented a Creationism Only curriculum

how did they do that? because when someone like me complains to city coucil; no one listens
when i complain to state legislators; no one listens

you gotta understand me here; NO ONE listens to a High School Student!
Especially NOT in West Texas

they have complete control in Odessa; and they like it that way
and they wont change for anyone
Even if Washington DC comes down and says they are wrong
they will go behind Washingtons back and do it anyway
thats what they are like

the city of Odessa is 100,000 people
but according to the article only 6000 people are able to make this decision? ya RIGHT!!!! thats not even 10% of the voters!!!

and you BET your butt that the ONLY people who are all for this proposal were the 6000 who showed up
to them its all about Hell and Heaven

What they need to learn is to Respect other people
until then i will NEver Respect a single one of them

I now live in Lubbock Texas; a far more liberal democratic city
yes everyone here votes for G W Bush also; but they are not Fanatical about their Beliefs...as they allow all types of religions here
The cops are not corrupt in Lubbock as they are in Odessa too

Lubbock is a State University town; with over 25,000 students at Texas Tech alone....not to mention the 3 or 4 other universitys in the city

Lubbock is 250,000 during school year roughly; and at Least 60,000 to 70,000 of the population is students; and at least 1/4 of the students are from Out of State; or are from Forign nations
I lived next to 10 Russians for a few months; as Indians Vietnamese and Koreans are everywhere also
its quite a wonderful place; no one here acts racist

In odessa almost everyone acts rascist
the white people live mostly on the North side; and the Mexican community is kept on the very very poor South side...

now you know why i hate odessa dont you?
because they are like this article shows them
a bunch of Constitution burning *(%#*&@#%

they care nothing for the original American intentions; they only care about their religion and the spreading of that religion
at Any Cost!

also; on another note; i just got a letter 2 days ago From the Odessa Police Department
They are threatening to put a warrent out for my arrest if i dont pay 500$ for a speeding ticket i got when i was UNDER 18
they said i could be jailed for at least 5days and up to a month
these people have no clue what Real Texas Law is
they ignore it, and they claim authority in any respect they wish
they think they can do anything they want

i was driving 34 in a "30 zone" , down a hill
and i get this massive ticket? and then they threaten me with many days in jail? over that???!!!

dont they realize they are creating terrorists?
are they truely this .... blind??!

you must understand clearly fellow ATS'ers
i never did anything to hurt anyone i dont go around attacking christians ; but after they attack me for years on end for no reason just because i dont beleive in their religion; is absolutly begging for me to fight back
and here i am fighting back with my thoughts and words...

Odessa brought me nothing but trouble and emotional / mental strife
i went to counciling because i could not figure out how to deal with a corrupt police officers whom hounded me
(remember i never broke a law cept speeding a time or two and smoking a tiny bit of marijuana)
come to find out, my own guidance counciler was a cocain addict!
my best friend also went to the same counciler for the same reason i did (police troubles) and he caught him snorting some cocain
well my friend T walks out of the councilors office with a bag of coke on him too! he said the councilor gave it to him because he said "ill tell my mom if you dont give me some of that for free"

i didnt do cocain more than once because i didnt like it
plus if you lived in odessa you would see one of the biggest crack cocain type epidemics you can imagine
seeing these junkies and twisted individuals; skewed by their cocain or fundamentalist lifestyles ;
have permanently scarred my mind

i will never do cocain
and i will
never follow their religion

thanks Odessa you taught me well
now i know what Hell is
and i certainly wont go back

Just thought all of you ATS'rs would like to know a FIRST HAND account of what its like in Odessa Texas; home of the Permian Panthers
and home of ultimate hypocracy

i could say a million more negative things about "Slow-Detha"
but ill stop here for now
if you want to know more ask
(keep in mind that im a bit bias due to my being a victom in their crimes)
but their crimes are no less criminal
dont forget that
oh ya and the drug mafia rules the whole dang town too
drug mafia + corrupt cops + fundamentalists = one messed up texas city

thanks for bearing with me thru my emotional rant and i apoligize if your offended
but remember, a True Christian is NOT one of these people we are talking about
True Christians dont attack other people, they dont force others into their religion; but Fundamentalists do
Big Big Differance

Now im ready to be flamed lol
have fun yall

I can honestly say that was the longest spontaneous post I have every seen on ATS....it was also a hell of a rant.
Quite frankly I am awed. Normally I lose interest halfway through my rants and wind up deleting them without posting because my tempers cooled. Odessa must gave scarred you deeply. I shall do my best to avoid Odessa texas for as long as I live.

On topic though I have to say this is a bad idea. State funding for a bible studies class is a no no in my opinion. The fact it is an elective is irrelevant people do get forced into electives. Its not like college where you get a choice in what classes you take. Electives are the left over classes that get tossed into your schedule for variety. Same way I wound up taking a HomeEc class in JHS rather than computer lab or shop it was required I take an elective and everything but HomeEc was full. I wound up sitting in class for two hours making those things where you twist rubber strings around each other to form a rope like keychain thingy. Everyone else got to make these cool (to a thirteen yr. old) things where you tape a picture to a piece of clear plastic
and scratch the image onto the piece of plastic allowing you to paint it like stained glass or just leave plain and translucent.

Why is it that Texas always steps up to fulfill the stereotypes of it. I mean you try to give a state the benefit of the doubt and then they pull crap like this. Its sad really...
I mean there's nothing sadder then a fulfilled stereotype. I mean come on try to elevate yourself beyond other peoples low expectations.

my highschool had a world religions class which touched on a lot of the major religions, and i thought that was fine, though i did notice a slightly heavier lean towards christianity. i thought that's why there are christian schools, so this really is just a tactic to spread the faith. in my books.

wow that was quite a rant. longest one i have seen so far.

now to adress a few of your points. if the police are so corrupt, why don't you contact the fbi or internal affairs? that is what they are there for. i would try internal affair first. it sounds to me from what you have said that it would be fairly simple to nail them.

as for your speeding ticket. have you considdered talking to a lawyer? you mentioned that you recieved that ticket when you were 18, i am makeing an asumtion that many years have pased since then, that could account for it being such a high fine. heck here you have no choice but to pay your tickets yearly, otherwise you can not renew your licence plates. to be honest i get parking tickets that i should not get because of haveing a parking permit, and typicaly i never actualy see a "ticket" i find out by a letter or when it is time to renew my plates. they even ticket my mother who has a valid handycapped permit (they just don't always look).

when it comes to your bioligy class i aplaud the fact that they teach creation, though they should probably mention the "big bang theory", and cover the evolution theory as well. even thouh creation is correct, it would not hurt to understand what a lot of people think as well. especialy as most collage courses tend to teach about these theorys as truth, it would give a person a chance not to be behind when they start collage. (note that they should teach all three theories at every school, as none can be "proven" as apsolutely correct).

as for "only those at the meeting voteing for this new course", well perhaps if people did not want it they should have shown up to vote the way that they wanted. those who can't be bothered to vote realy have no right to complain about what was voted in. they had their chance to speak but couldn't be bothered. and keep in mind that the same thing happens with school trustees they get voted in (at least here), therefor if you do not like what they do you should vote for someone else. you may not get what you wanted but at least you would have tried. if most of those who bother to vote are christians, then you can expect that what they want will be given priorities. it may not be the "fairest syston" for you personaly, but it is the fairest that it can be. how would you like it if say you were part of the majority, and the minority got what they wanted? you may not like it but unfortunatly you can never satisfy everyone, so you must try to satisfy as many as you can.

you have stated that you always got stuck with "leftover" couses than you and your parrents should have complained to the board, if the board would not listen then you should have gone above them with your concerns. the way it was done in my highschool was. everyone turned in the courses that they wanted to take. the school program was then set up acording to who needed what. sometimes courses were not available but in that case you had first shot at it the next year. we even had our metal shop closed due to lack of interest, and trust me that sucked.

you have also stated that all the christians were "bad" and "hypicritical", now isn't that just predjudace? ther may be a lot of them, but not all will be. this is just like the majority of blacks are good and decent people. but unfortunatly all we end up hearing about are those that cause problems, and blaim every thing on the whites. thos eare the ones that everone tends to remember. they have left their makrk through what we have both heard about and seen for ourselves. we tend to not even remember that the "decent" blacks are black at all, to most they are just people. they don't negatively affect us and therefor are not "catagorized" in our heads. we tend to all remember the negitive things while those things that are good just seem to be neutral, why would we remember when it was just the norm, or should be the norm. we tend to pay far more atention to very bad or very good things that is what sticks in our memories.

it sounds like you have had some bad run ins with the biggets. but what about those who never did you any harm, those who just did what they wanted while you did what you wanted. there was no reason to interact so they didn't notice you any more then you noticed them. because there was neither realy good thing or realy bad things there is no reason to pay them more head in your memory ,they are apart of the background. and lets be honest if there is a high percentage of christions then there will unfortunatly be a proportionate number of "bad" ones. this is just everyday human nature. if you lived in a area that was say 80% hindues then you would see a lot of problems with the "bad" hindues, this would not mean that all hindus are "bad" just that they would be more rememberable as there are so many "bad" ones.

i was liveing in an area with a high percentage of jewish people. i was beaten up by some of them on a daily basis. this did not mean that all jews are bad. it just so happened that since there were so many jews that chances were those groups of bullies would be predomantly jewish. hate the actions not the "religious or racial" groupings. we are all human and as such we all will tend to have members that behave badly. also never forget that a parrent will generaly never realy see their children as being bad. this is even true in regaurds to the parrents of a murderer. just another fact of life.

Originally posted by deaf fences hit
my highschool had a world religions class which touched on a lot of the major religions, and i thought that was fine, though i did notice a slightly heavier lean towards christianity. i thought that's why there are christian schools, so this really is just a tactic to spread the faith.

in my books.

we didn't have a religion course per say. but covered a little bit in a social sciences class.the highlight was a class trip to many religious centers.

we toured two jewish synagogs ( an orthadox, and a non-orthadox one, the area had a very high percentage of jewish folk), a greek orthadox catheadral, a islamic temple,( amusingly they shared the parking lot with the non-orthadox jewish synagog see they can get along sometimes), a buddist temple, and a couple others (no prodestant churches however ).

the funiest thing happened when we entered the buddist temple. a couple of the girls started freaking out. they were yelling about how buddists must hate them and wanted to kill them all. the reason was that on just about all the trim and other available surface were swastikas. the teacher had to take them outside to calm them down. afterwards he had the monk that was showing us arroun explain why. to a buddist it is a sign for peace and prosperity. just an example of why this type of course would be a good idea. to learn about other religions is to, learn and understand what they are about. it would enable some misunderstandings to be averted. can you imagine what could have happened if these two naieve girls had gone into a buddist friends house and seen these symbols? there would be a good chance of "hate" devolopeing because of ONE symbol. it could also have led to hate crimes against a buddist that had no problems wuth jews at all.

[edit on 28-4-2005 by drogo]

4 things lol

1.drogo; keep in mind as i stated at the end of my silly rant; that i made a distinction between Regular Christians and Fundamentalist ones

theres a big differance; and i was attacking the Fundis
Regular Nice Christians i have no problem with; in fact im sure they share my disgust towards the Fundies who have ruined their name...

2. I was really upset when i posted my long rant lol but hey its nice i set a record? maybe? lol

3. I will not go back to odessa willingly
So no; i will not go to their city assembly and argue politics
I may however; send them hate mail.

4. It can be researched as its a True Story.
The State Govt discovered the illegal dealings of the Odessa police; especially the DTF , Drug Task Force; and how they were planting evidence, stealing evidence , etc.
George W Bush (*Gov of Texas at the Time)
G W Bush personally broke up the Odessa DTF; and he spoke very lowly of these individuals and desired to "Fix" the problem
G W Tried his best it seems; to Stop them
But they are smarter than that; here is why

After the Texas Govt Broke up the local DTF and made everyone go home;
they believed they Needed a New DTF to replace the old corrupt one
So they began hiring people to staff the New Revitalized DTF
Now heres the kicker yall;
The people who signed on to the new DTF; and got hired; were the exact same team that got fired in the first place

agian im sorry i posted such a long rant....lol i dunno what got into me
must be the odessa rage lol
try living amongst them for 20years; then lets see your rant!