Equal rights for women doesn't seem to be working.

Originally posted by dawnstar
basically the idea that I was trying to express that if a generation or two grow up in homes where one parent is "different" from than another, and thus obligated to obey the other, well, that would be so easy to be tranferred over to other differences. It would be played out for them in their home on a daily basis. an acceptable way of life.

You distilled years of reading, thought and arging into a few sentences. So clear and succinct.

This societal subservience fits many niches. I like the way you stated it.

Originally posted by godservant
Today, in India, the women go to schools and colleges.

Not all of them, and many of them still have limited opportunities here.

There are about 150 programmers here from India and around half are women. They secretly mock how the US does things and say our own misery is our own fault.

Uhm, if those 75 women are "secretly" mocking us, how would you know? How many have you talked with who gave you this opinion?

As it happens, the labees (lab techs) at the university where I work are almost all international students and I'm friendly with a number of them. I've never seen this attitude here nor did I see it at any of my other contract programming jobs, where I came in contact with people from around the world.

So I'm quite curious about your experience since it's rather counter to my own experience and that of other folks.

They CAN divorce and own their own place or go back to their parents in most places there. While it may be true that a divorced woman in India may have to deal with a lot in the smaller villages, it is not that way in their larger cities.

And you'll find that they're grateful for this; that they don't want to go back to arranged marriages (that still happen, by the way) and women who are essentially slaves of the family.

However, there is still a BIG difference in the families that stay together.

Yes, and if you'll notice, nowadays the "man rules the household" model is the one that ends up with the most divorces. A number of studies have shown that divorce rates for very devout Christians are much higher than for any other group (and given their bias against divorce, there must be a LOT Of unhappiness for the real divorce rate to be that high!)

Pagan/athiest/agnostic households (where the partners believe in divorce and equality) actually have lower rates of divorce.

if you want a good example of what would happen if the husbands in america suddenly found themselves in a position where they held an overwhelming amount of power within the family unit while there being no outside force to establish some kind of pressure for compromise...just look at the US Congress...they're mostly men, one half feel that they have enough of a majority that they don't need to consider the other side's position. and what are they doing??? arguing and bickering over a bunch of unimportant hogwash like gay marriage, keeping dead people alive, who's taken more "bribes" while traveling, ect. ect.

besides, what happened to the idea that we all are born with this great desire for freedom and liberty...didn't we go into Iraq so that they could obtain this desire.....or is it just men that are born with it?

Originally posted by dawnstar
if you want a good example of what would happen if the husbands in america suddenly found themselves in a position where they held an overwhelming amount of power within the family unit while there being no outside force to establish some kind of pressure for compromise...just look at the US Congress...

Have you taken some kind of perception pills?

You (personal) NEED to run for political office!

I am not kidding. Start local and work up-

Either party

Pick the one that has the best organization through the state level for you.

Susan BMore than any other woman of her generation, Susan B. Anthony saw that all of the legal disabilities faced by American women owed their existence to the simple fact that women lacked the vote. When Anthony, at age 32, attended her first woman's rights convention in Syracuse in 1852, she declared "that the right which woman needed above every other, the one indeed which would secure to her all the others, was the right of suffrage."

I'm more of a fan of Elizabeth Stanton myself....she was more into the idea that religous beliefs were the source of the problem. although, the vote was her goal also....

na, not into running for office......more into writing letters to the ones who are.

Originally posted by dawnstar
not into running for office......more into writing letters to the ones who are.

That's good too.

That way you are never the one making the mistakes

I do it also

I'm a woman and I think feminism is one of the worst things that's ever happened.

No, men and women are NOT equal--at least not physically, emotionally, psychologically, etc.

But EVERYONE is equal in terms of worth as a human being.

Men and women each have their own roles. I know the feminists will scream "gender stereotype," but you know what, "gender roles" are actually innate! Boys gravitate to cops-and-robbers games, and girls gravitate to playing house. It's natural. When I buy my son a boy's toy, I'm not forcing a role on him--I'm nurturing what's already there.

Men are better leaders. Women are nurturers. You know, I always wondered why a man taking care of a vineyard was called a husbandman in the Bible. A husbandman tends to his vineyard so his things grow. The husband should do the same for his wife, and the wife is his help meet. There's something poetic about that!

Husband/wife is NOT supposed to be master/slave. I too would have issues with a man who made his wife walk X number of paces behind him in public!

I'm also tired of people thinking men are more violent. Actually--we women are. We're more emotional. I read a study about three kinds of couples--gay male, gay female, and straight. Gay males had the least incidences of domestic violence. Gay females had the most, and straights were in the middle.

I'm sick of hearing about "battered women," as if we women were the only people to experience it (which I never have--I have a good husband, thank God). Men experience it too! But how many men will admit to being beat up on by their wives/girlfriends? Men have the short end of the stick there--I will admit that!

I'm trying to be more submissive to my husband. I was born in 1973, so of course I was being fed all the feminist lies about how a woman should be independent, shouldn't have to bow to a man (submission isn't exactly slavery, dear), should have a career, ad nauseum.

I am glad that I'm able to be a stay-at-home mother. Yes there was a point after my son's birth where my husband and I both worked--same shift, same place, same department! At first our baby was watched by the wife of a co-worker (and she was a co-worker of ours once), then we left our son with my husband's sister. Never in daycare. His aunt cares about him.

I feel fortunate that I did not miss his first steps--which he took when we were picking him up from his aunt's house!

And Betty Friedan is full of it. I'd sure like to know how having a career is more fulfilling than keeping house! (It's not!)

Originally posted by Amethyst

Husband/wife is NOT supposed to be master/slave. I too would have issues with a man who made his wife walk X number of paces behind him in public!

I'm also tired of people thinking men are more violent. Actually--we women are. We're more emotional. I read a study about three kinds of couples--gay male, gay female, and straight. Gay males had the least incidences of domestic violence. Gay females had the most, and straights were in the middle.

I told my wife that we should send her over to Iraq during granny's visit. She gets mean

I'm sick of hearing about "battered women," as if we women were the only people to experience it (which I never have--I have a good husband, thank God). Men experience it too! But how many men will admit to being beat up on by their wives/girlfriends? Men have the short end of the stick there--I will admit that!

As a member of the male gender, I appreciate what you are saying here Amythest. However, I do think that women have a higher instance of abuse than men. I will agree that the proportion of men is probably alot larger than reported.

I'm trying to be more submissive to my husband.

Amythest, you dont need to be submissive to your husband. You just need to be his friend. And him, yours. A mutual respect with the knowledge that each brings strengths to the marriage. My wife is my best friend and I wouldnt be the man or father I am today without her. We dont see eye to eye on alot of things, but we respect each other and we both realize that our opinions are just our opinions. That is what makes a marriage work. It doesnt take alot of money or a big house. Just mutual respect and love. You are your husbands equal as my wife is mine.