Was Jesus married?

Originally posted by jagdflieger

I don't want this to be turned into another thread about silly people believing he was the Son of God.

This statement alone is inflaming since it implies that all Christians are silly because of their belief. If you do not want to believe - fine. But I believe that Jesus was the Son of God and threre are good rational reasons to believe so (if you want to study them). Also the charges of corruption and editing of the Bible are also one sided presented by people who only want to trash the Christian Faith. As for the stories and legends about Jesus not dieing on the cross, again where are the textual qoutes from the original source (I do not mean some anti-theist web site, but actual qoutes from a historical document). About the Romans breaking legs of people being crucified. This was done while the person was still on the cross. After the legs were broken, the person could not raise up to breathe and death by asphyxiation quickly followed. (In order to breathe, a crucified person had to lift his body with his arms.)

Jagd, I can agree with your sentiments. I am not bringing up the "charges of corruption and editing" to trash anything. I am bringing them up to show that nothing on this "God's green Earth" is perfect....and that does include the Bible and any other such holy texts. I believe in God, whole-heartedly, and I believe that anyone who reads the threads in this forum, can easily atest to this. As you requested "textural quotes" perhaps you can provide the same when applied to the 100% certainty that the Roman's broke the legs of every single individual while on the cross. I know of the practice that you speak of, it was one of a few the Roman's used. I also understand what was said in the Bible. I also know that Jesus rose form the dead after three days; and that he ascended to heaven.......

Again, this is from a Biblical context. Are you or anyone one else saying that if they don't believe in what the Bible says, that they are wrong, misguided, and anything not from the Bible is untrue? That is the point I was making. Its far easier to condemn then to not. Perhaps Illmatic is looking for such legends and myths or stories.....

regards
seekerof

chicken, you didn't read my post, did you?

#1 God calls Solomon his son, ie. Solomon is a son of God, just like God called Jesus his Son, ie. the Son of God.

Your argumant was that a son of God could not have children?

Well, you'll have to search far and back to find someone with more descendants than Solomon (perhaps Djengis Khan).

Hence, there is no scripural proof that being a human son of God somehow hinders someone from having children.

#2 Like Jesus, also Solomon was an anointed king of both Israel and Judah.

Messiah means simply "the annointed" or "king of the Jews".

All kings of the Jews before Jesus of Nazareth had children.

Hence there is nothing in the way that Jesus could have children, on the contrary it seems almost like a nessessity for a king to produce offspring in order to support the house of Israel with kings.

If you ask me it's the duty of a king to to have children, but somehow someone (I will not mention any world power directly, you all have brains) obviously feared this more than anything, for it would mean the end of the world as they knew it, and he would have destroyed them like one crush pots of clay with a staff of iron, but God's plan can not be hindered. What is written will happen. Amen.

As for the Hosea part: Read the opening chapters of that book with this in mind: Hosea and Jesus is the exact same name in Hebrew, as is Josva. It shouldn't be that hard to understand, now would it?

Blessings,
Mikromarius

[Edited on 27-7-2003 by mikromarius]

I believe we will never know for certain. However the answer lies deeply buried in the Vatican after the Catholic Church's "editing" or butchering of the true Gospel texts.

Originally posted by Seekerof
Well, Illmatic and I have had discussions/comments to the word/term of "son" and "Son", but I think one has to keep in mind, as Illmatic has eluded to, that the Bible, like the Quran, like the Torah, like any other "holy texts", were written by men/Man. In such, is open to being flawed, re-written to and for "hidden agendas," and is very open to curruption (ie: the changing of words,etc.).

I am not saying that Jesus was not the Son of God, but perhaps all the great prophets were the Sons of God. I find it somewhat difficult sometimes to take the Bible literally in meaning and in word usages because the Bible, as other holy texts, have been translated and re-written so many times that error cannot be helped from being introduced. One must remember also that there have been many books that have been excluded, further making one wonder.

Personally, whether Jesus was the Son of God or the son of God, is immaterial to me. Its what he had to teach that should ultimately matter.

There are many legends and stories to the effect that Jesus did not die on the cross. There have been stories told that state because he had not died prior to the Jewish Sabbath commencement, sundown, he was removed from the cross, as the others who were also crucified with him, and were not killed but left for dead. It is a known Roman practice, in respect to the Jews and their traditions of the Sabbath, that those who did not die prior to the onset of the Sabbath commencement, were removed and had their legs broken so that they could not "get away" and to also help speed the arrival of death. The stories speak of this happening to Jesus. Being left ofr dead, after his legs were broken, as night fell, Jesus's mother and Mary Magdelin (sp) came and stole him into the night, resulting in Jesus's escape and exile. The stories speak of Jesus and Mary Magdelin (sp) leaving the country and going to a far of land (Europe) and marrying. They have children and those children grow to become great kings and heroes in Europe.

This is but one of many stories of Jesus not actually dying and also of Jesus being married and having children. Whether they are true or not, I cannot say. That is ultimately up to the individual to discern.
The point I am trying to make, is instead of "downing" or condemning what Illmatic is saying or believes, one must respect his discernment. I would feel that he would do likewise. There are always two sides to a story......and discernment is always concluded on the basis of one's interpretationial skills......

regards
seekerof

Seekerof. I usually agree with you most of the time. I can not here.
Again, spurious assertions by men who were non-believers, mystics, conspiracist and just plain, in some cases -evil, do not make a good case against the
Bible being anything but the Word of God dictated by Him to the prophets. One can make these assertions about rewrites and errors. The only thing a good believer can tell you is this: Either you believe or you do not. You can not go back in time and ask Moses, John and the others whether it is all true or not. This is the same for 67 who faithfully believes every word in the Koran as fact and history in truth.

Mik I read your post, as stated above, you say that in Hosea there are prophecies about Jesus marriage, What are they, which verses.

You posted 2 verses which I replied to showing their correct intpretation (not just mine btw but checked using a concordance).

You still have to show where the bible tells about jesus and marriage at all. As the Default position is that Jesus was not married, you have to SHOW and prove your position that he was. Otherwise you are just doing as Illmatic is, runinating and theorising over an event which has no support for it whatsoever. As I said in his post, you might as well say Jesus had green skin, for all the factual basis you can provide.

Originally posted by mikromarius
chicken, you didn't read my post, did you?
Blessings,
Mikromarius

[Edited on 27-7-2003 by Netchicken]

Originally posted by Tyriffic
You can not go back in time and ask Moses, John and the others whether it is all true or not.

Actually we can. In the Spirit of God everything is now. Through the Word of God I speek with Moses and John most every day, and God sort of steer the communication. This is a mystery, and not everyone can understand it. I'll just say it with the words of John the Baptist: Him who comes after me existed before me.

That you don't understand this only means that you don't know Jesus as good as you claim to.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

[Edited on 27-7-2003 by mikromarius]

Seekof, I did not mean to imply that the Romans universally broke the legs of men being crucified. This was done to "finish the job quickly", there were cases where it took from 3 to 4 days for a man to die on the cross. Breaking legs was done when the Romans were in a hurry to get it over with (no bullet in the brain in those days.)

What irrates me is this is a typical argument:
Skeptic: The Bible has been tampered with.
Believer: Where is you evidence?
Skeptic: I found it at this web site.
Believer: What is its evidence?
Skeptic: Well it says the Bible has been tampered with.
Beliver: Well what is this web sites evidence?
Skeptic: Well it says the Bible has been tampered with.
Believer: Well what is this web sites evidence???
Skeptic: Well the web site says the Bible has been tampered with and it must be true.
Believer: Then you believe the Bible has been tampered with just because this web site say so.
Skeptic: Yeah - that's right.
Believer: You mean you believe that the Bible has been tampered with just because this web site says so????
Skeptic: Yeah - its gotta be right, because I can't believe what is the Bible can be true.

Tyriffic, you got serious problems.

To you, everything I post is bashing Christianity. You want to bring up Islam in everything I say and bash it. I dont know how this thread is anti-Christianity. I dont know why you're so defensive. This is a post about Jesus' life, not his message.

And I dont know what Islam has to do with this. Get a life or get off my nuts.

To the person who asked what the Qur'an says about Jesus being married, it doesnt say nothing like it- not that I know of.

Netchicken, your whole entire post was terrible.

Read my first post. Jesus was called a rabbi, he was a respected rabbi and he had to follow the code of rabbi's to be called a good teacher, so he did.

Originally posted by Netchicken
You still have to show where the bible tells about jesus and marriage at all.

Sorry I forgot in the first version of the post, and it looks like you were too quick with replying, sorry, my fault. Well here it is. Keep in mind that Josva, Hosea and Jesus is the same name in Hebrew.

Hosea 1:2�When the LORD first spoke through Hosea, the LORD said to Hosea, " Go, take to yourself a wife of harlotry and [have] children of harlotry; for the land commits flagrant harlotry, forsaking the LORD." NAS

After she have given birth, God tells Hosea to explain to his children how their mother is adulterous and therefore they should turn away from her. But after a while, God changes his love and the following is said:

Hosea 2:14�"Therefore, behold, I will allure her, Bring her into the wilderness And speak kindly to her. 15�"Then I will give her her vineyards from there, And the valley of Achor as a door of hope. And she will sing there as in the days of her youth, As in the day when she came up from the land of Egypt. 16�"It will come about in that day," declares the LORD, "That you will call Me Ishi And will no longer call Me Baali. 17�"For I will remove the names of the Baals from her mouth, So that they will be mentioned by their names no more. NAS

This is an image of the gentile believers (you would probably call it the Chur�h). The mystery wife of Jesus is likened with a woman in the desert, and the son of Jesus is called Yisre'el which is the name used for the freed Israel (1947) with the Jews. Later in Hosea 3 God tells Hosea to buy an adulterous woman. As an image on God's love for Israel:

Hosea 3:1�Then the LORD said to me, "Go again, love a woman [who] is loved by [her] husband, yet an adulteress, even as the LORD loves the sons of Israel, though they turn to other gods and love raisin cakes." NAS

Besides, who ever heared of a childless king?

To read what I wrote about the son of Jesus, please read my post in the Underground Stream thread (Post Number: 127071):

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Blessings,
Mikromarius

Originally posted by jagdflieger
Seekof, I did not mean to imply that the Romans universally broke the legs of men being crucified. This was done to "finish the job quickly", there were cases where it took from 3 to 4 days for a man to die on the cross. Breaking legs was done when the Romans were in a hurry to get it over with (no bullet in the brain in those days.)

What irrates me is this is a typical argument:
Skeptic: The Bible has been tampered with.
Believer: Where is you evidence?
Skeptic: I found it at this web site.
Believer: What is its evidence?
Skeptic: Well it says the Bible has been tampered with.
Beliver: Well what is this web sites evidence?
Skeptic: Well it says the Bible has been tampered with.
Believer: Well what is this web sites evidence???
Skeptic: Well the web site says the Bible has been tampered with and it must be true.
Believer: Then you believe the Bible has been tampered with just because this web site say so.
Skeptic: Yeah - that's right.
Believer: You mean you believe that the Bible has been tampered with just because this web site says so????
Skeptic: Yeah - its gotta be right, because I can't believe what is the Bible can be true.

Agreed Jagd.
I, for one, don't believe Jesus was married.

*edit* Link I provided did not work so I deleted it out of this message.


regards
seekerof




[Edited on 27-7-2003 by Seekerof]

Well I still have not seen any direct evidence (such as qoutes from the NT) which would indicate that Jesus was married. What evidence is there other than than the assertion "Well He was a rabbi, He must have been married." Today many people seem to misunderstand terms such as "rabbi" which means "teacher" or "buddha" which means "enlightened one", etc. Where is the Hebrew text called, "Rules and Regulations for Rabbis". Again where is the documentary evidence that Jesus was married? Is there any in the NT? Any in ancient writings? For example there is Biblical evidence to indicate that Jesus had physical bothers and sisters (James, the brother of Jesus).

Christ and the Father are One (John 10:30),
and Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father (I John 2:23).
Christ Himself is the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father except by Him (John 14:6). In Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily (Col. 2:9).
Our faith in Christ and His words is supported by numerous prophecies, by the evidence of miracles, by His divine Incarnation of a virgin, His Resurrection and ascension, and by countless manifestations of His love for mankind.


"No man hath seen God at any time; the Only-begotten Son, Who is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him," (John 1:18) and "Not that any man hath seen the Father, save He Who is of God, He hath seen the Father" (John6:46).

Illmatic how can you say Jesus Christ was married.......He was not a prophet ..........He was the Son Of GOD........

Muhammed's life cannot even compare to the life of Jesus Christ.........he does not even come close to the love that Jesus Christ showed to people .......Jesus Christ taught forgiveness and love for all mankind.......

God is love (I John 4:8,16).
Although Muslims believe Allah to be loving, merciful, and just, he is more frequently revealed in Muslim scriptures to be stern, demanding and retributive:
"Those that disobey Allah and His Apostle shall abide forever in the fire of hell" (Sura 72).


Hope you have not taken any offence Illmatic !
I am just stating the truth as a Christian ..........

A true Christian will forgive but where is the forgiveness and the Love of which Muhammed speaks of???

helen

Originally posted by Illmatic67

I don't want this to be turned into another thread about silly people believing he was the Son of God.

You evil mahometan. You found a new way to write your anti-Christians diarhoea. In your opinion, those who believe that Jesus was the Son Of God are silly, then the whole Christianity is silly and all the Christians are stupid, isn't it ?

Hell must be full of Muslims like you. Poor Satan....

Originally posted by Illmatic67
Tyriffic, you got serious problems.

To you, everything I post is bashing Christianity. You want to bring up Islam in everything I say and bash it. I dont know how this thread is anti-Christianity. I dont know why you're so defensive. This is a post about Jesus' life, not his message.

And I dont know what Islam has to do with this. Get a life or get off my nuts.

To the person who asked what the Qur'an says about Jesus being married, it doesnt say nothing like it- not that I know of.

Netchicken, your whole entire post was terrible.

Read my first post. Jesus was called a rabbi, he was a respected rabbi and he had to follow the code of rabbi's to be called a good teacher, so he did.

67. I have problems like everyone else under the sun. Yet, thankfully, I have none like yours. One, I try very hard not to bash anyones belief. I will respond to threads that are offensive to Christianity though. And, I do know that you may fiegn innocence in this latest post of yours, but I see clearer.
You have made a living off of degrading the Christian faith. If anyone poots at the sight of Islam you are running for your guns. How many times have you been called out for flaming Christians??

How many threads and posts have I made flaming Islam specifically. Pleas count them and let me know the results- I will apologize for any I made in ignorance.

You make it a point to accuse the Bible of falsehood, inconsistentsies; you accuse Jesus of being a mere prophet- a mere man, like Mohomet. You deny Jesus to Christians and in so doing, deny the foundation of faith in resurrection and salvation.-This is not bashing??!

You use your vulgarities to "Get off my..."
You seem to be in need of help.

I will not resort to bashing of Islam to bash you as a slanderer of Christianity.

In ending, I have a life, and it belongs to someone I trust. Can you say the same?

Have a glorious day...



[Edited on 27-7-2003 by Tyriffic]

What Tyriffic said.....

Religions are always going to be a problem for man whilst people like Illmatic hold such hatred in their hearts.

Originally posted by jagdflieger
Well I still have not seen any direct evidence (such as qoutes from the NT) which would indicate that Jesus was married. What evidence is there other than than the assertion "Well He was a rabbi, He must have been married." Today many people seem to misunderstand terms such as "rabbi" which means "teacher" or "buddha" which means "enlightened one", etc. Where is the Hebrew text called, "Rules and Regulations for Rabbis". Again where is the documentary evidence that Jesus was married? Is there any in the NT? Any in ancient writings? For example there is Biblical evidence to indicate that Jesus had physical bothers and sisters (James, the brother of Jesus).

Have you heared about a work called the Talmud? Well the Talmud was the "oral Torah" which was eventually written down after the Babylonian captivity, resulting in that new laws were added to the covenant which said among other things defined what was to be called work on the Sabbath, for instance it was not allowed to walk more than such and such. Jesus faught these added stones to the burden of the Law. Paul calls these new laws for the Yoke of Covenant. And within it's covers it also says that a man must be married in order to be called rabbi. The Pharicees were strict followers of the Talmud as well as the Torah, but not even once did they mention that Jesus wasn't married. On the contrary, they seem to have called him rabbi themselves. This is also the case with the scribes and the priests. Awfully strange that they should call him rabbi if he was unmarried, when they called plucking a straw of weat for work, don't you think?

And another thing. According to the Gospel of John Jesus had his own house (in John 1 alone there are two indications that Jesus was indeed married: He is called rabbi and shows us his house in the same verse). Well according to the marrital customs at the time of Jesus (which are also reflected through Jesus parables of his second coming), it was the grooms duty to build a house for the family during the first year after they had married for the first time (the Jews married twise in the time of Jesus, the initial marriage was legally binding and you would have to divorce to brake it). Building the house is infact part of the whole mystery of the Messiah's work while he's in Heaven, preparing for his return which noone knows when is, as it is with the groom's arrival at the second wedding. A Jewish wedding is incredibly cool stuff. Man they can party and to the can-can. When the couple finally come together for the second wedding, they go in to the house and they sleep together. The day after the parents of the bride show off the sheets they lay on to show how their daughter was a virgin due to the blood on the sheets. After that they are like one person and get lots of children.

Yet another thing: All the women who followed Jesus everywhere. You may think this is stupid, but it would be virtually impossible for these women (both married and unmarried) to even be seen together with an unmarried man. Anyone could actually stone these women for adultary. Strange then that these women seem to have followed Jesus everywhere for years, and it is never mentioned that this was even a cause of dispute.

And: At the cross, Jesus tells his beloved disciple that he must now care for his mother as if she was his own. This may indicate that whoever wrote the Gospel of John was Jesus' Brother in Law, for this was (and is, as far as I know, still) the custom when a man dies. We are never told the identity of the beloved disciple, he remains anonymous as does the name of the wife of Jesus, but tradition wants it that he was John.

There are also several other things that indicates more than just a bit for the believer, that Jesus was indeed married. If he hadn't had children, it would be his brother's (most likely James/Jakob) duty to give him offspring as the Law demands. A son would still be descendant of Jesus according to the Law.

I find it extremely strange that you can't believe that Jesus was married, though you can believe he was the Messiah. I find this strange. It's even mare difficult to proove that Jesus was the Messiah than it is to proove he was married. But of course, someone has told you he was the Messiah (eventhough Jesus time after time denies people to call him that) and written numerous works and other works based on these works again. If you ask me, your faith is like dew in the morning. As soon as the Sun rises, it's gone. Or like a candle on a field. As soon as the wind blows, it's dead.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

Originally posted by Illmatic67

Originally posted by Nightwalker
Jesus was the Son of God. Not a prophet. If he were married it would of been written in the bible.


Nightwalker

I don't want this to be turned into another thread about silly people believing he was the Son of God.

And I'm sure it was written in the Bible, but it was edited out like a lot of things.

Didnt John say that if they wrote down everything Jesus had done and said, not all the books in the world will cover it?

Who cares? I don't want the thread to be about a silly person trying to paint false pictures of the Son of God. How about those green apples?

So, to boil it down, the fact of the matter is Jesus is the Son of God. He was unmarried. The wedding was as depicted in the Bible, someone else's.

Furthermore, the fact that he was unmarried is a-ok, as a matter of fact, being unmarried was not depicted as a bad thing but actually a good thing - if you could handle it. Being single gavce you freedom from family responsibilities and the ability to spread the gospel better. Were you to look in Revelation, you'll notice that there will be 144,000 little Jewish Billy Grahams, all unmarried and light travellers that will be spreading the Gospel to the Jews at a point in the seven year Tribulation.

'67, you seem agitated in thread, you feel people are on your case. Its probably because you say you don't want silly little people claiming Christ is the Son of God, Lord of Lords and the Savior of all, whether you'll accept him or not. When you want to discuss the Son of God and then say those who believe He is the Son of God can't tell you who He really is, you'll probably insult one or two people. I dunno, I'm just guessing!

Originally posted by ultra_phoenix

Originally posted by Illmatic67

I don't want this to be turned into another thread about silly people believing he was the Son of God.

You evil mahometan. You found a new way to write your anti-Christians diarhoea. In your opinion, those who believe that Jesus was the Son Of God are silly, then the whole Christianity is silly and all the Christians are stupid, isn't it ?

Hell must be full of Muslims like you. Poor Satan....

You hipocrite! You deceiving son of a dragon! How can you, who don't even know what being the son of God and messiah means, club down a man who simply says that (t)his thread should not be a discussion over the pope's beard, but rather a discussion whether Jesus was married or not. Go wash your mouth and feel ashamed of yourself. This is in no way how people should treat their neighbours (or enemies for that matter, as it seems you hate the Muslims)! You show little if any understanding and empathy at all here. May there be foregivenes for such herecy and vomit that you witness of

Don't you know that Jesus was the Son of Man? You can't use Genesis 6 to support your perverted view that Jesus being a son of God couldn't marry and have children. The sons of God mentioned in Genesis 6 were angels, Jesus was the Word in which God created Adam in the first place! Jesus is more man than you and me. His genes are free of all the dirt we are full of. Jesus is the Son of Man and in effect of being an annointed king of Israel-Judah, he is also the Son of God, just like Solomon was, and just like Jesus' son will be as written in Revelation. Leave in peace or treat your neighbour with love.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

Originally posted by Tyriffic
67. I have problems like everyone else under the sun. Yet, thankfully, I have none like yours. One, I try very hard not to bash anyones belief. I will respond to threads that are offensive to Christianity though. And, I do know that you may fiegn innocence in this latest post of yours, but I see clearer.

No you don't. This thread is not offencive to Christianity. If it ios offensive to anyone, it will be the Babylon you call church and your own ignorance. Deny ignorance is the payoff for this group, and to me you and your like are among zealots who fight for a lost case and blindly without ever thinking of rejecting part of your whore's doctrines, because it is these doctrines that has misled the sheep of God for ages. Your mother is sleeping with wolves, dining with snakes and commits adultary wherever she goes. Your mother is a harlot, and you accuse them who dare to stand up against her as satans?

Jesus had several parables prepared for people like you and the age in which we live: Luke 18:9-14+19:11-27 are two of them

Blessings,
Mikromarius