Babylone and Rome

I just noticed I gave the wrong link in my last post. So lets try this again:
RCC Catechism - 10 commandments

@dbrandt
I was refering to the non-catholic portion of your post. Although in retrospect, I think it is probably a misunderstanding of the terms used.
If when you say "receive" the definition is limitted to "to accept as authoritative, true, or accurate" then I agree with what you wrote.

ncbrian

I know everything you need to know about the catholic church. I started there as well. The difference is that the rcc is a religion. Knowing God,....knowing christ, is a relationship. Its a way of life.

I dont pay homage to the catholic god called jupiter. His statue is in the vatican and its retitled St Peter. Jupiters sunburst image is everywhere.
Jupiters sunwheel and obelisk is also there.

If you wont believe they are corrupt for throwing away so many commandments including the 2nd... Then at least open your eyes and look at the images they have chosen.

Rome is Babylon

Something else I was just reminded of that will let all THINKING people see who the Roman Catholic Church is.

They make mary the QUEEN of Heaven. The bible shows who this queen is.

Jer 7:18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.

ALSO 44:17-25


Rev 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet color, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
Rev 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

Rev 18:7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.

The link is clear. Study Semerimis if you have any questions.

The information in the link at the opening post is appropriate to a couple of threads currently under way.

To be honest, i dont who is worse ...The Catholic Church telling people to confess their sins to a priest and to pray to Mary, or The Protestant Churches with their "Once-Saved-Always-Saved-Tongue-speaking-guaranteed-rapture-spirit-Filled-by-Faith-Alone" circus... both setcs lead people astrya and both condeme eachother up in their HIGH HIGH "people-pleasing" horses....:shk:

well i guess at least the Catholic church still teaches "repentence of sin"... the portestan just says "say the sinners prayer ONCE, and you're "saved and guaranteed heaven", no metter what.............

[edit on 21-5-2005 by BaastetNoir]

BN..

A-men.

There are people who take it to extremes all over.
That OSAS now I can do anything i want stuff really gets me goin too

Originally posted by BaastetNoir

the portestan just says "say the sinners prayer ONCE, and you're "saved and guaranteed heaven", no metter what.............

[edit on 21-5-2005 by BaastetNoir]

I would like to distinguish something here. If the person, who has accepted Christ for the forgiveness of sins, meant it, then the Holy spirit now lives in them. They now have the God of the universe living in them. He begins a transformation in them and that person is in the process of becoming "like" the Jesus. Our old ways and habits and desire to sin are removed from us. This is a lifelong process. If you accept Christ and now sin because you think you are saved, you have not been born again and are not saved.

Originally posted by jake1997
...but I dont because I dont have the capabilitie to read and understand the BIBLE as it is meant to be read...

No you don't. If you did have the capability to read and understand
the bible as it is ment to be read, you wouldn't be so full of anti-
Catholic bigotry. You drink it like it's water. The hate keeps you
warm and 'alive'. It's very sad.

Just rename Below Top Secret - Jakes Bigoted Anti-Catholic Home Page.
It's a more accurate title.

Your words betray what is in your heart. SAD. :shk:

I suppose BTS Religion forum serves a purpose. It manages to
keep most of the ignorant anti-Catholic drivel here instead of at
ATS where grown ups can have civil discussions.

I'll spoon feed you one last time, poor Jake. But to grow
spiritually, you'll have to leave behind the notion that
'Bible Alone' saves. Sola Scriptura IS NOT biblical.

The bible doesn't contain all of Christ's teachings. The bible even
says so - 'if all Jesus' teachings were written down, then there
wouldn't be enough books in the world to hold them
all'.

Mark 4:33 - "With many such parables he spoke the word to them .."
(what were the others? Scripture doesn't contain ...)
Mark 6:34 "He began to teach them many things."
(what things? Scripture doesn't contain)
John 16:12 "I have yet many things to say to you, but you can not
bear them now."
(what things? Scripture doesn't contain)
Jon 20:30 - "now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the
disciples, which are not written in this book"
(what things? Scripture doesn't contain)
John 21:25 "But there are also many other things which Jesus did;
were every one of them to be written, I suppose the world itself could
not contain the books that would be written."
Acts 1:2-3 - To the apostles he presented himself alive after his
passion by many proofs, appearing to them during forty days,
and speaking of the kingdom of God"
(what things were taught? It's not written down)
See also Luke 24:15-16, 25-27

So we have Sacred tradition and oral teachings ... which the bible
encourages us to use.

1 Cor 11:2 - "Maintain the traditions ... even as I have delivered them to you."
2 Thess 2:15 "Hold to the traditions .. taught by word of mouth or by letter."
2 Thess 3:6 "... traditions that you received from us"
1 Cor 15:1 - " ... the Gospel, which you received ..."
1 Gal 1:9 - " ... the gospel .. which you received."
1 Thes 2:9 - "we preached to you the gospel of God"
1 Thes 2:13 - "when you received the word of God which you heard
from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but as what it really
is, the word of God"
2 Tim 1:13-14: "Follow the pattern of the sound words which you have
heard from me ..."

My parting words to you are this - free yourself from that sola
scriptura cult that you are in or you will NEVER progress in grace
or wisdom before men and God. Sola Scriptura is your ball and chain.
Bu-bye Jake. Good luck on your spiritual journey.

Information on the dangerous Fundamentalist Sola Scriptura Cults -

www.catholic.com...

en.wikipedia.org...

And some more psychology/fundamentalism reading -

www.globalpolicy.org...
www.bidstrup.com...
www.dimensional.com...
www.newreformation.org...
www.global-vision.org...



[edit on 5/23/2005 by FlyersFan]

umm

Thats not my quote you brain surgeon.

As to the thread... its all based on the images. If you care to address them, please do.

Try to take on a christian tone tho. Is that Your catholicism is shining through?

I'll spoon feed you one last time, poor Jake. But to grow
spiritually, you'll have to leave behind the notion that
'Bible Alone' saves.

??
Jesus alone saves. No one else. I dont need a pope, a priest, a rcc.
No mary, no saints, nothing but Jesus.

God Jesus?

Originally posted by jake1997
Thats not my quote you brain surgeon.

Never said it was.

Try to take on a christian tone.

Oh ... like your 'brain surgeon' quote above? :shk:

What do you expect Jake? You come in here spouting
uneducated anti-Catholic drivel day after day ... a kid
on an unholy mission. EVERYTHING anti-Catholic that
you post ... EVERYTHING .. has been addressed and
addressed and debunked. DEBUNKED. And yet you
continue to come in here spewing the same tired old
Jack Chick rhetoric. The only sane conclusion is that
you are in a fundamentalist cult and you need mental
health help. The hate and ignorance that you continue
to throw up is sick. Jake, I majored in Psychology. I
know a problem when I see (read) it. YOU have a
problem. Break free .. get some fresh air ... open the
phone book ... and CALL a mental health professional.

Jake .......

Wherever you are in this world ''one always is required to have a teacher'' to teach you right from wrong.......

Being in this world we are required to follow the Laws of this world...

We need a government to make these rules up(although one does not have to agree with them...we sure do have to accept and follow them)

The courts have Judges ......we have to bide by theses rules laid down.......if not then there are consequences...

Christ did what He had to do so that we follow in His footsteps.......how else would we have known about Christ if it wasn't for His Apostles?

Christ was the sacrificial lamb.....quote//The paschal lamb was only a symbol of the Lamb-Christ, — through which the Lord wanted to show His listeners that the time for symbolism had passed, because Truth Itself had arrived in His person: the partaking of the paschal lamb will be replaced in the New Testament by the partaking of the Body of Christ, brought as a sacrifice for the sins of the whole world.

www.intratext.com...

Also we have Church present in the Old Testament when the Angel appears to the Priest Zacharius.......
quote//the appearance of God’s Angel to the priest Zacharias during the church service,
foretelling him of the birth of his son John who would be great in the sight of the Lord,
and at the same time, his punishment in the form of muteness for his disbelief. The Angel also foretells Zacharias of his wife Elizabeth’s conception.

www.intratext.com...

Jake You need more Humble prayer......because without this you are only deceiving yourself and no one else......
Read some prayers by the early church fathers who humbly kept Christ in their prayers with truth.....who also wrote the Christians I beleive in one God.....
and another interesting read on translation of the word ''Virgin'' to other falsified documents....
www.orthodoxfaith.com...
take care..
helen

Jake , do you actually read what is written by other members here at all?
Because it seems that you just say what you have to say and disreguard what others have to say in regards to your questions!

If this is the case, then remember what is of Christ...
Quote//
He chose the Twelve Apostles ....Mystery of the Priesthood ...He set apart His twelve Apostles to constitute His immediate enviroment and later on to become His successors and continuators of His work.
He established it when after His resurrection and on the day of Pentacost He gave them His Holy Spirit and transmitted to them the authority to forgive sins, as is the sacrement of Repentance, which was the authority of the Priesthood.
Later the Apostles did the very same thing regarding their own succesors:And when they had ordained them presbyters in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commanded them to the Lord on whom they beleived>>(ACTS 14 24 )
Also
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God..(ACTS 20 , 28 )
St Paul says ...If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work..(1 TIMOTHY 3 , 1 ) also St Paul says in Heb . 5 , 4 ...is equally divinely inspired : No man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron......
Wherefore, bretheron, look ye out among you seven men of honest report..(ACTS 6 , 3 )

The church is also for the sick....
St James......Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:and the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him...(James 5 , 14-15 )

helen
take care.....

What do you expect Jake? You come in here spouting
uneducated anti-Catholic drivel day after day

First off, if I was spouting anti-catholic material I would have several troll warnings by now.
There is a difference between hating someone and providing unfavorable information.


Wouldnt it be more productive to just explain why everything appears to be of pagan origin and why it breaks with the bible in favor of chrurch doctrine?

Again:
You can sound as hateful (have you heard yourself?) as you want, and say that I hate catholics...but that would make me a hater of my own family as well

Or you can answer the information that looks unfavorable. I didnt make it up. Its out there. I have read all the web pages. So just providing a link wont do it.

You cant blame your hate on me by saying 'he started it" either. Jesus said its what is in the heart, that comes out of the mouth.
All I have done is show a problem with RCC doctrine.
If there is no scripture to support the catholic doctrine...then dont hate me. Im just the messenger.

Originally posted by dbrandt

Originally posted by BaastetNoir

the portestan just says "say the sinners prayer ONCE, and you're "saved and guaranteed heaven", no metter what.............

[edit on 21-5-2005 by BaastetNoir]

I would like to distinguish something here. If the person, who has accepted Christ for the forgiveness of sins, meant it, then the Holy spirit now lives in them. They now have the God of the universe living in them. He begins a transformation in them and that person is in the process of becoming "like" the Jesus. Our old ways and habits and desire to sin are removed from us. This is a lifelong process. If you accept Christ and now sin because you think you are saved, you have not been born again and are not saved.

so you are saying that the moment you become a Born again and accept Jesus you never sin again ???
Jesus said the opposite, and thats why O.S.A.S cant stand up for its life.

Christian mean "FOLLOWER OF JESUS"...not "Christ Like"... read Paul he said the same thing... and even Paul said a man can fall away from GOD, saying that noone can fall away from God is negating FREE WILL, God's gift.

AS to say that the "will to sin is removed from us" well... is that why there is such a HIGH rate of divorce among "Born again" Christians??? Divorece is a sin too according to the Christian Faith you know ?

My point beeing Catholics are wrong to pray to Mary and teach man can forgive sins, but its even WORSE to tell people that if you become a born again you will never sin again ... thats calling JEsus himself a liar.

Jesus said if there is anyone that says he wont sin, he is not following God because he is lying.

Originally posted by helen670
will be replaced in the New Testament by the partaking of the Body of Christ, brought as a sacrifice for the sins of the whole world.

If I remember right helen670 you are eastern orthodox. When you take communion is it taught that the elements are turned into the actual body and blood of Christ? I'm not looking to start trouble, I'm just curious which other religions believe this. And I am curious if you know of other ones that also believe this?

Originally posted by BaastetNoir
but its even WORSE to tell people that if you become a born again you will never sin again ... thats calling JEsus himself a liar.

That's not what I'm saying. Someone who is saved will still sin but it will be less in frequency and intensity. I agree if someone is saved and says they have no sin they are a liar.


I believe once saved always saved. When the actual salvation act takes place the Holy Spirit indwells the person. God tells us He will never leave us nor forsake us. And we know that greater is He who is in us than he who is in the world.

It seems to me if a person believes they can lose their salvation then there is a reason it is lost. What would that reason be? Did the Holy Spirit get fed up with us and leave, no, He will never leave nor forsake us. It would have to be our performance. If it's our performance then salvation is works and not by the grace of God as a free gift. The Bible tells us it's a free gift.

A true acceptance of Christ means you are born again. That is a big deal.

If you think you lost your salvation, then you never had it to begin with!

Originally posted by BaastetNoir

Christian mean "FOLLOWER OF JESUS"...not "Christ Like"...

I don't mean a person will ever be God or a god. We are being conformed to the image of Christ. We will be like Christ in some ways. EX. God cannot sin. Someday christians, when we are with Christ, will not be able to sin.

[edit on 23-5-2005 by dbrandt]

Dbrandt.....
The Eastern Orthodox on the Mystery of the Holy Eucharist....(meaning giving thanks ....euharisto .pronounced ef-ha-ri-sto )

The Gospels relate this institution of the Supranatural Mystery in John 6, 27-69 ,
Matthew .26 , 20-29 , Mark 14 ,17-25 , Luke 22 ,14-38 and St Paul in 1 Corin 11,23 -26.
According to these sacred passages, our Lord on the night He gave Himself over to death for the salvation of the world ,''taking bread and, and blessing brake it and gave to His disciples and said , Take ,eat , this is my body which is broken on your behalf for the remission of sins ''. And after ''taking the cup and having given thanks '' to the heavenly Father He gave to His disciples saying
'''Drink ye all of it; for this is my blood of the New Testament , which is shed for many for the remission of sins '''.
And He added the exohortation to His disciples ,'''Do this in remembrance of Me ''.Preserve this Mystery as a continuous and eternal institution for sanctification and salvation .
St Paul repeats the same thing concerning the institution of the Sacrement.
''' For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you , That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: and when he had given thanks , he brake it , and said , Take , eat: this is my body, which is broken for yoyu :this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped , saying, this cup is the New Testament in my Blood : this do ye , as oft as ye drink it , in rememberance of me '''.And the apostle of the Lord addas : For as often as ye eat this bread , and drink this cup , ye do shew the Lord's death till He come ''
(1 Cor. 11 , 23-26 )
quote//Hence the Sacrement of the Holy Eucharist is really a representation of our Lord's atoning sacrifice . Further , it is a continuation and perpetuation of our Lord's saving death, i.e. His Sacrifice on the Cross.
And this representation shall continue unto the Lord's coming .After His deathh and resurecction, the sacrifice is bloodlessly executed on the Holy Table , bloodlessly and not bloody as it was on the Cross , and thus it is proclaimed to the entire world , to both beleivers and unbeleivers ,that this death , by being a willing death , the death of the sinless , incarnate and Holy Son of God , the God -man Jesus Christ , is the most sublime and holiest of sacrifices which He offered to the Father for the atonement of sinners and for the firgiveness of sins. And this Mystery which is - we repeat - the sacrifice on the Cross , is also the Passover of us Christians , as St Paul expicitly says when he states ''For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us''(1 Cor . 5 , 7 )
Our Christian passover is the sacrifice on trhe Cross and Christ's resurrection for our behalf ......
'''Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood , ye have no life in you .Whoso eateth my flesh , and drinketh my blood , hath eternal life '' (John 6 : 53 , 54)
For we being many are one bread , and one body (the many become one body through Holy Communion ):for we are all partakers of that one bread" (1 Cor. 10 17 )
This was done from the beginning .....as Christ Himself had done on behalf of all mankind.....as God-man.
Since the WORD-LOGOS is life......and the WORD IS Christ .....this very life in us is like a seed of immortality, abolishing corruption that is within us......St Basil amongst other Holy Fathers, St Cyrul of Jerusalem ,St John Chrysostom(meaning 'golden mouth ')
hope all that helped..
helen..

Originally posted by jake1997
if I was spouting anti-catholic material
I would have several troll warnings by now.

Mods are not Gods. They can't be everywhere. There
are no 'report' buttons in BTS. Also - they may just be
reading, eatting popcorn, and being entertained.

There is a difference between hating someone
and providing unfavorable information.

Yep. Sometimes people do both at the same time.
And sometimes people 'provide' junk and try to pass
it off as just being unfavorable information. And other
times the poor soul actually believes that junk and thinks
he/she is doing 'God's work' by trying to pass it along.

Wouldnt it be more productive to just explain why ...

THAT's the problem here Jake. You 'ask questions' (accuse really),
and answers are provided over and over. You 'ask' the same thing
and more answers are provided. You just aren't taking the time
to actually read what is posted for answers. Either that, or you
just don't understand it. I'm not the only one who has noticed that
you dont seem to bother reading the responses.

All I have done is show a problem with RCC doctrine.

Of of yet you have NOT shown any problems with the RCC doctrine.
Everything you have spewed forth has been answered. Everything.
Example - I have posted time and time and time again that Catholics
have SACRED TRADITION. That the bible says to hold onto sacred
tradition. The bible itself says that it doesn't contain all truth and
all of Christ's teaching. But you continue on (and on and on and on)

If there is no scripture to support the catholic doctrine...

PRIME EXAMPLE of the above ... many many many times it has been
told to you about SACRED TRADITION. Scripture texts have been posted
over and over showing that Sola Scriptura is not biblical and that
Sacred Tradition is. But again you post this line. It tells the world
that you aren't reading what is answered to your 'questions'. You
are just using BTS Religion forum as a soap box to 'save' souls from
what you think is an evil.

then dont hate me.

I don't hate you. I am deeply
concerned for you. Cults loooooooove to feed people a bunch of
bunk that they are 'specially chosen by God for this mission ...' and
then feed them hate about everyone else except themselves. God
may indeed have a special mission for you. But it is NOT what you
are doing. What you are doing is not of God. Not at all.

Im just the messenger.

Only because you want
to be. You are not a 'special messenger' to save Catholics. This
is bunk. This is cult. When I tell you to get some help I am being
VERY sincere. Get some fresh air. Get some help. Recognize
unhealthy worship and indoctrination ...

Irrational pathological anti-catholic obsession

www.globalpolicy.org...
www.bidstrup.com...
www.dimensional.com...
www.newreformation.org...
www.global-vision.org...

I don't know why you left the Catholic Church. But for what
ever reason it was - you don't understand Catholic teaching at all.
You left that which you don't understand. You want to leave. Fine.
Go. Be happy. BUT .... you really should learn the truth about
what you hate so much. The truth about what the Catholic church
believes will not be told to you by fundamentalist anti-Catholic cultists.
It will not come from Jack Chick tracts. It will come from the Catholic
church itself. Get a Catechism. Read that which was never taught to
you to begin with. Find a good priest to explain things to you. Go
to EWTN dot com and ask the questions there. Go to Catholic Answers
and ask the questions there as well. Authentic Catholic sources.

Break free Jake. You are too young (my guess is ~ 25 or so) to be
sucked into obession and hate of that which you don't understand.



[edit on 5/24/2005 by FlyersFan]