The truth lets admit it

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk
I always value respectful thought provoking exchange. I use now translator because of better exchange.

As I said, since we are talking about a different and probably more highly developed species, we can only guess what their motives are. So I understand that you are trying to explain it using human logic, after all, it is our logic. I hope I was able to formulate that well.

Regarding the topic of navigation lights, it could also be plasma projected by microwaves, I have heard that we can now do that with microwaves and lasers. Generate and control plasma balls. It doesn't have to be a physical lamp, not necessarily. But I'm not insisting that it is as I suspect. I'm just speculating. But it's fun! Time is also a relative thing. Mainly because of self-perception. What are weeks of turmoil for us now could easily be due to the transmission speed. Or to the fact that the ET simply doesn't care what we think as long as we don't kill ourselves on their drones. Maybe that's why there are navigation lights. Maybe another ET species, we really don't know anything. So I don't like to rule things out. That's annoying me too, I'd like an opinion too.

Regarding 3.
Let's assume that the ET hardware also has to fly here conventionally. Put aside whether they are already here or not, we don't know either. It's all hypothetical. Which can take thousands or millions of years. So a drone. These drones can also have errors. And how does the data come back? How quickly? Or at all? Questions I ask myself.

I personally think it's unlikely and also quite out of touch with us - again typical of humans - to think we are completely alone. Of course, it could just be normal human drones, that would still be the most plausible for me. That also causes confusion, now people are talking about drones because that's the most similar? the most plausible? or why is the word UFO hardly used anymore?

Did I understand correctly that these drones also move differently than earthly drones?

originally posted by: andy06shake

I think it would be rather arrogant not to believe in aliens given the scope and vastness of our universe.

It's a BIG universe though. We can all suggest that life in general is throughout our universe. Life happens when conditions are right and it all seems to be a constant. The problem is when you try to define what type of life it may be you start to really cut down the possibilities.

When you say ok we want an intelligent lifeform, oh they need the ability to build, oh they need the ability to advance to the point they can enter space, and want to go into space, be physically able to go into space, then last long enough to advance to the point to solve most of the mysteries of the universe. How many of these are out there?

Just to give you food for thought, when we look at Earth it is a prime location for life, about as perfect as one can get, so how many Earths are out there with a large moon to stabilize the weather allowing complex life forms to evolve, big outer planets to be vacuums to allow life to mature long enough before wipes, very good gravity, lots of water, in a perfect location from the sun.

Now, even though Earth is prime how many lifeforms advanced over the last 4.5 billion years to some level of intelligence, much less build as we have done and go to the moon? At least that much...

1

Now when you look at the universe it is what 15 billion years old, but in the first 6 billion years not much going on other than massive stars forming and going supernova quickly in the creation of all the natural elements. About 9 billion years ago the universe finally started to be what we see today with suns and planets forming. So, in half of that 9 billion years Earth evolved one species that has been able to go into space...not good odds to think space aliens are all over the place.

I'm also not convinced that higher intelligence is a good trait. It could be a bad trait that kills itself off in one way or another. We are only about 100,000 years old, and we are already trying to kill all life including ourselves.

I personally think space-traveling aliens are extremely rare to the point that when it happens they never meet because they are on different timelines since species are all time-limited in when they start and go extinct.

originally posted by: Naftalin
And how does the data come back? How quickly? Or at all? Questions I ask myself.

I think that could be the easiest of their problems. Quantum entanglement would allow for a way to communicate no matter the distance.

originally posted by: Naftalin

Maybe I loose in translation and is my missunderstanding.

It only takes three years or so for something new to become a norm. 30% of people will not deal with it and most likely lock themselves up until they die, 30% will accept and 30% will not really know much of a difference from when they were not here. It would have been easier 100s of years ago so why not then?

a reply to: Naftalin

...

Did I understand correctly that these drones also move differently than earthly drones?

This is actually the best question of all.

Some of the drone sightings have been wildly different than most of the others. These bizarre drone sightings didn't happen over New Jersey, or anywhere close, but rather over Eugene, Oregon. Several commercial pilots called ATC, including United, Alaska and a Medvac flight, to report bizarre "corkscrewing" 'unidentified' objects which were coming inland and traveling back out over the water. Pilots reported these as traveling from wing level (FL260 in the case of the medevac), up to FL550, in a circular, or "corkscrew" pattern.

No drone can do this. Well, no drone we know of, can do this. Now, I can fully believe a military asset might be able to do this (given enough time). These pilots were/are professional airline pilots with everything to lose by reporting some crazy UFO. If you listen to the ATC recordings, they are clearly surprised, and they are really only worried about their aircraft (which is what they should be worried about). When ATC clears them to avoid the object(s) by descending or transitioning left or right "as required"...this is a very telling moment!

Were they aliens? No, at least I don't think so, but this is my personal opinion. BUT...they were definitely something which caused professional airline pilots to call ATC and ask if some special maneuvers (military or otherwise) were underway. AND...multiple aircraft pilots called in the reports over Eugene at the same time.

Yes, this is different from what is happening in NJ, but it's interesting that OR was left off the map for "drone sightings" on virtually every MSM news site.

So...what do you think?

Our esteemed moderator, Zaphod, clearly posted some alleged "drone" pictures which were clearly the Orion star constellation which is clearly visible in North America on most cloudless nights if you know where to look. He also pointed out that many of the NJ sightings are more than likely aircraft in the pattern to land. Indeed, right again.

This doesn't explain the Eugene, Oregon incident with multiple aircraft at cruise altitude. But in conclusion, I would agree, most of these incidents are man (human/Earthling) made, and likely have some military or research purpose.

The "message" from the federal government to date is patently obvious...they know what these events are (all of them), and they're just not telling the public what they are.

Edit - P.S.- Seems like a large group of people in this country are desperately hoping for some alien conspiracy to swoop down and cause doom...because their votes for president were overwhelmed by the opposition. So, it's a desperation plea.

Look up the story from Ord, Nebraska. The Chief of police said there were about 50 drones and they were terrorizing cattle, shining lights on them. They chased the drones and got up to speeds of 120 mph. He was in the 82nd airborne I think it said. From how the article reads he definitely thinks they are not of this planet.

a reply to: Xtrozero

I compose single answer for the two of your answers.

Quantum entanglement

Fascinating, I google it, the Chinese have a satelite that can do this. I did not know this, good you bring it as answer. Learn something new all times here.

It only takes three years or so for something new to become a norm. 30% of people will not deal with it and most likely lock themselves up until they die, 30% will accept and 30% will not really know much of a difference from when they were not here. It would have been easier 100s of years ago so why not then?

I understand now, thanks for your patience. You ask good question, I do not have answer now, about why now. What do you think why now? I think about this a bit and if I do have good thought, I post.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Now I do understand better. I do now pilots. One flys a DC-3 and a couple more. He restore US military Humve, Mutts and others, can speak good English. And he fly to the USA too. I maybe ask him through a friend, he is busy person, what he think about the ATC tower recording. He is kind of guy who is not afraid. I can google but he should be more in knowledge about where to find tower recordings, but do you have a link?

So...what do you think?

First thought was, what is in Oregon. I use all my resources -I read the Oregon wikipedia- to find out what can be there of interest. I never hear about the 'silicon forest' before. I ask some of these pilots in the bar before, about UFO and when I did, it was like air was thick. Mood not so good and uncomfortable. Yes pilots do fear reputation loss and many do not talk or not want talk open about it, what they seen.

A pilot first needs aviate the plane before all else. If pilot need call over radio to ATC for alternative route, there is something they are concerned about. And if ATC give them freedom of choise, it is a more special situation. When I listen to some talk, compare the stories I hear in the bar, where pilot complain about tower. Like give them landing instruction that make it very high workload before they go final approach, when is no obvious reason for. I get impression that ATC commands -for good reason- are like law and a big authority. Not many room for mistakes. Makes sense. It looks like out of the norm, when the tower give so much freedom to the pilots.

There was something, I believe that. I also know that commercial airliner, they fly different like a range master. With all the thing like auto trimm and heading and altitude auto pilot systems, it is a flying computer. It is not like they can wing it in last second to avoid, they need time because of speed and physics. Is reason there is captain and pilot and maybe flight engineer.

These are my thoughts. I am sure the incident happen, knowing a bit about pilots. It is extraordinary, not something common. Was it aliens? I do prefer searching for more plausible explanation first, too. Like military, or private people.

originally posted by: Naftalin

I understand now, thanks for your patience. You ask good question, I do not have answer now, about why now. What do you think why now? I think about this a bit and if I do have good thought, I post.

I don't think alien life has visited us. I'm open to the possibility of alien AI though. Life is too limited to deal with space/time whereas machines have zero limits. Self-replicating AL can travel for billions of years not evolving like life does, it can continue its mission over and over. At 10% the speed of light, it would take about 2 billion years for these AI machines to map out much of our galaxy as they travel increasing their numbers with the same never changing logic pattern for billions of years. We humans will not be human in a million years and were not human a million years ago. Just to travel to Alpha Centauri would take 60 years at 10% the speed of light and it would be a one-way trip..

Machines have zero limits, and life has so many serious ones... Even time itself, as we get closer to the speed of light time slows down so if you are very close and you flew just 1000 light-years and back it could be only 20 years to you on the ship, but back on Earth 2000 years have passed.

So, we would need to bend time and space to take two points and bend them to overlap and you then punch through instantly like a pencil through two giant pieces of paper as they overlap two points 10,000 light years apart. Could life even survive that...lol Then you pop out and though you traveled 10,000 light years distance in a second, you find yourself 1 light year away now...OK you now travel for 10 years to finally get there.... My point is space is HUGE even with technology to travel great distances.

a reply to: Xtrozero

I don't think alien life has visited us. I'm open to the possibility of alien AI though. Life is too limited to deal with space/time whereas machines have zero limits. Self-replicating AL can travel for billions of years not evolving like life does, it can continue its mission over and over.

Well if it quacks like a duck and looks like one......................

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Naftalin
And how does the data come back? How quickly? Or at all? Questions I ask myself.

I think that could be the easiest of their problems. Quantum entanglement would allow for a way to communicate no matter the distance.

No it won't.
Please refer to 'No Communication Theorem'

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

For what it's worth, and take this with a grain of salt, I did see a video earlier about a guy saying that aliens have been here for a while and bases underground. Some are like human sized Praying Mantises, some are tall and grey, and some are light blond haired (from Pleiades) that are so human looking that they walk among us unnoticed. He claims that the reason they're making themselves known to all is because they don't want to see the world destroyed by nuclear weapons. He claims they were active, but less seen, during the Cold War and now very active with the threat of another nuclear war. The manmade drones are easy to explain/figure out and are becoming boring as nothing new is happening, but the orange orbs they're "surveilling" are a different story. It's difficult to figure those out.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: crayzeed

Dear Mr Naftalin, there's only one Sun in the universe????? No there is only one sun in our galaxy,

The number of stars in our galaxy "The Milky Way" is estimated to be in the range of 100 billion to 400 billion.

This is true, and I've only flown to about 1,500 of them and several of the planets that orbit those stars. Of course, I was playing Elite Dangerous but that's as close as any of us will ever get. At least it's a 1:1 ratio of the Milky Way and distance is as accurate as our satellites can detect, the rest are guestimates.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Yeah I've noticed that people are now just finding things that have been in the sky forever, and making something out of nothing because of everything going on. It dilutes what's really happening. You can tell these people haven't left their couch past sundown in decades or ever zoomed in on a star at night. There are strange happenings right now for sure, but pulsating stars and red skies have been around forever. I'm almost embarrassed for the human race.

a reply to: LSU2018

Short of technology changing significantly true indeed.

I used to play Elite Dangerous, might give it another install.