United Healthcare Shooting Suspect Nabbed in Pennsylvania

originally posted by: Irishhaf
I dont get the anger at the insurance companies... congress could force them with a quickness to not be horrible people.

They dont, they wrote the laws that allowed this to happen, the guy (insider trading aside) played the game by the rules congress put in place, the anger should be at the house and senate and the members of each body that have been in office 40 years allowing practices like the dead guys company used.

Oh, you give people WAY too much credit if you believe this! The average attention span is less than 60 seconds. For someone to believe what you stated, they would actually have to use that grey matter between their ears!! That ain't happenin'.

a reply to: interupt42

So, what happens tomorrow, December 11th????

a reply to: Texastruth2

Hmmm…. Curious picture of the X-ray. Maybe that has something to do with this. A past surgery?

He apparently had back surgery before being reported missing by his family in San Francisco. I thought the same as you when I saw that picture, so I went looking for what it might have been and found this

On Nov. 18, his mother Kathleen reported him missing to the San Francisco Police Department, a police source told The San Francisco Standard.

The San Francisco Police Department did not immediately respond Tuesday morning to a request for comment by Fox News Digital.

Aaron Cranston, who was one of Mangione’s former classmates at the private Gilman School in Baltimore, also told The New York Times that he and his colleagues received a message earlier this year stating that Mangione’s family hadn’t been able to get in touch with him for several months following a back surgery.

At the time, Mangione’s family was trying to track him down, the newspaper added, citing Cranston.

- FOX

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Wow, that seems super recent for him to be running around like this. Though surgeries have advanced quite a bit, some surgeries that used to require months of physical therapy now are considered borderline non invasive.

I wonder if that was a catalyst of sorts. Maybe not even just the insurance angle, but even with lower impact surgeries on something like a back, there was a reason it had to be done, and a regiment of pain management. Unfortunately that regiment can include quite a bit of opiates, and sometimes even anti anxiety medications depending on how someone is coping with it.

Definitely an interesting detail that was so recent.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker

But if people get sucked into this line of vigilantism, where does it end? What’s next, Amazon, Disney, McDonald’s? Those are all companies you can just not use. That’s not fixing anything.

It seems this CEO is one of five over different areas, and I heard the shooter didn't even have his insurance with them, so who knows the real reason that could be as simple as this CEO was convenient for the shooter to make a point. I'm 100% sure this guy is just another crazy activist who got spun up in most likely an activist group. He had a manifesto on him, he had monopoly money, and he let his backpack/phone etc be found... He planned to do it and to get caught.

Healthcare needs an overhaul. Most of the world has cheap clinics that you can go to and pay cash for 80% of your needs. The payment is super cheap... In Texas, my son got pink eye on a Friday of a 3-day holiday weekend. My only choice was to take him to the ER since I would not want him dripping all over the place for days in my house. A friend told me there was a cash only clinic in the next town, and being military at the time I was thinking OK I'll do it, but it will suck, but not as bad as 10 hours waiting in the ER...

We went there and I filled out paperwork in 5 minutes, a nurse practitioner looked at my son (they have a doctor on call too) and said yep her has pinkeye, here is your prescription. That cost me 20 bucks and we were in and out in 15 mins. That is one layer we need for so much of our normal healthcare. The next layer would be catastrophic insurance which is 10 times cheaper than normal. The government can also do cash vouchers for those who do not have a company insurance plan. Then of course you can still have health insurance for those who want it. Many Canadians have that here in the States since their healthcare system is lacking.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker

There are countless people who paid the premiums all through adulthood only to have to fight for their lives because of sickness or injury. No one talks about the full time job it is to navigate the insurance company during that time you’re in the most vulnerable state.

We hear this all the time and for me personally, I have had over 10 surgeries and even a very expensive abscess in my brain treatment/surgery and for all of them I basically paid zero out of pocket, so some are doing things right.

a reply to: Xtrozero

For sure.

This all has to be looked at with thoughtfulness and discussed in good faith by not just the government, but society.

Our system isn’t perfect, but no one’s is.

We are the tip of the spear on a lot of medical advancements because of our system. Not all the health insurance companies are evil, and yes, as companies they do have to turn a profit.

But the answer isn’t to just rid them, I like your approach on finding ways to make it all more accessible and efficient.

In all reality, I don’t think most citizens in modern countries pay less than me if we broke down the tax, and what they get out of it (quality).

But I do truly understand the hate for UHG.

I have them now, and they want you to use their hospitals and clinics.

I only go to a doctor where the practice is owned by partners, I feel like they look at me as a patient rather than a number. I’m sure there are a lot of good doctors in the massive machine, but I’d just rather support a practice that doesn’t have to report to corpo. My doc even told me he didn’t think I should get the COVID shot, which I really found refreshing given the times we were in.

I just keep my HSA loaded and invest it as well. That covers the out of network. If I had to do something more than my routine, I’d have to go to specialists with the hospital networks anyways. So I found a way to navigate it for me. But I could see how that wouldn’t work for everyone, and the frustration that could follow.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
It's funny that everyone is celebrating the CEO who died, but goes bat# crazy when the blame for the pandemic falls on Fauci.

Let's go back to a post from one of our favorite Progressives, theatreboy...

Middle Aged White MAGA guy who outwardly hates homosexuality but in fact is secretly gay for the Trans agenda.

Why does the left feel any violence is some MAGA thing when they are the party of hate and violence?

This guy Lugui is 26 and comes from a rich family who owns several country clubs. Valedictorian of his high school, Computer science degree, and is just another crazy progressive activist.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker

But the answer isn’t to just rid them, I like your approach on finding ways to make it all more accessible and efficient.

It could be as easy to have two payment systems. One is insurance and the other is out of pocket. One HUGE issue is let's say you have a medical treatment, and it is 20k. The insurance company will say no no no, we are only going to pay 5k. The hospital says ok, but if you don't have insurance then the hospital sends you a bill to pay in full 20k. That is broken and is truly where much of our health cost issues rest.

In all reality, I don’t think most citizens in modern countries pay less than me if we broke down the tax, and what they get out of it (quality).

So true... Think of dumping 25% of your pay into a healthcare bucket...then do that for 10 years never really using it. The same is true with education. I showed a long time ago that the average British student loan is more than one in America as they get the so-called free education....

a reply to: Xtrozero

a reply to: CriticalStinker

We can't talk about healthcare reform without talking about several other topics simultaneously. And, that's part of the problem...it's not an easy problem to solve, so people just wind up giving up.

You can't talk about healthcare and insurance reform without talking about things like the legal system, and the unprecedented punitive civil lawsuit awards in court cases against medical providers. Crazy damage awards drive up risk. Increased risk drives up insurance premiums for medical providers (across the board, not just doctors). When anyone and everyone gets sued for everything imaginable, insurance premiums skyrocket for doctors, pharmaceutical companies, hospitals (and on and on). These providers and facilities don't just eat these costs, they pass them on to you, the consumer. Individually, these increased costs are incredible, but collectively these costs are staggering!

You can't only look at the end of the problem; you have to trace the problem all the way back to the source. And the source is the very same people who complain about all these costs...the people.

People can't expect to get rich off of some ambulance-chasing attorney on TV because Dr. Mengele missed a stitch for their cut toe, and then turn right around and sing the blues about skyrocketing healthcare and insurance costs. That's not realistic. Now, I'm not saying either of you are doing this, but just pointing out that the root of the problem isn't as easy as just "fixing healthcare' or 'fixing the insurance racket'. Every time someone (I'm looking at you, Obama) tries to "fix" something, they never address the underlying problem. Thus, the problem never truly gets fixed. In other words, everyone wants to treat the symptoms not the underlying disease.

People talk about "greed", and there's plenty of that to go around. But greed doesn't exist only at the healthcare provider level and the insurance company level. No, greed exists all the way up and down the food chain from top to bottom. Greed starts at the consumer level, then up to the legal level, then up to the provider level, then up to the legal level again, then up to the insurer level, then up to the legal level again...and then up to the government level. It is truly a top to bottom issue. It's not an easy problem to fix.

One rather drastic way to fix the problem is to allow the system to spiral out of control until the whole system bankrupts itself. That's the path we're on now. Another way to fix the problem is to break it up into its respective pieces and work on reforms at ALL levels, including the consumer level.

When people expect hundreds of millions of dollars in return for a wrongful death, correcting this expectation is a good starting point for reforms. There should be caps on wrongful death suits. This would then remove the insurer justifications for higher premiums, and it would also discourage all of the pro-bono lawsuits which seek outrageous awards. This is just one example of literally thousands. In any case, truly fixing the problem is an effort which must be undertaken at ALL levels, not just the consumer facing level.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

OMG cryptic BS galore!!!

- Delay or defend, deny, depose

- Monopoly money

- Tommy Hilfiger

- Hello World

- 12/11/2024

This kid sounds like he got sucked into a death cult!

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
You can't only look at the end of the problem; you have to trace the problem all the way back to the source. And the source is the very same people who complain about all these costs...the people.

Let's add RFK Jr food issues to the mix too. Our healthcare system doesn't want to do preemptive medicine, they just wait until you are sick and then treat you. A friend of mine was overweight and borderline diabetic. He wanted to lose weight and get away from diabetes and the insurance would not pay anything until he was actually diagnosed as a diabetic. He ended up going to Mexico for the treatments that were 20% of the cost out of pocket in the States, just crazy.

People talk about "greed", and there's plenty of that to go around. But greed doesn't exist only at the healthcare provider level and the insurance company level. No, greed exists all the way up and down the food chain from top to bottom. Greed starts at the consumer level, then up to the legal level, then up to the provider level, then up to the legal level again, then up to the insurer level, then up to the legal level again...and then up to the government level. It is truly a top to bottom issue. It's not an easy problem to fix.

Everyone wants the easy money, but we scapegoat just a few.

One rather drastic way to fix the problem is to allow the system to spiral out of control until the whole system bankrupts itself. That's the path we're on now. Another way to fix the problem is to break it up into its respective pieces and work on reforms at ALL levels, including the consumer level.

I'm more the fix it at different levels person. As I said before, start with not under the insurance umbrella clinics that can handle 70% of all medical needs and are basically cash payments of 20 to 30 bucks. The State can even subsidize for the poor. There are zero reasons a 30 min doctor visit should be billed at 600 bucks. From the clinics would be specialists that could be the start for insurance, but it would remove a huge amount of medical from the insurance umbrella lowering the over cost.

a reply to: ByeByeAmericanPie

Or...maybe he was paid by some tightly connected politician to make certain inconvenient financial matters go away through obfuscation.

But that wasn't the point of my reply. My reply was simply addressing looking at the whole picture not only part of it.

You'd have to kneecap me to get me off my soapbox about the corrupt insurance industry, or about rich entitled liberals, pharmaceutical company injustices, or about society being disconnected from reality, but again, that wasn't my point. They're all evil, but so are people.

ETA - AND...UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES COULD THIS BE HIS FAULT, HIS DOING, HIS RESPONSIBILITY!!!! NOPE...we absolutely must find an excuse to justify his actions! Yeah, "he must have got sucked into a death cult", but IT WASN'T HIS FAULT!! (not my view of course, but many have taken this approach).

originally posted by: ByeByeAmericanPie

OMG cryptic BS galore!!!

- Delay or defend, deny, depose

- Monopoly money

- Tommy Hilfiger

- Hello World

- 12/11/2024

This kid sounds like he got sucked into a death cult!

Don't forget the manifesto, classic cult tool.

Rich kid too, so all the time in the world not needing to work and can just be sucked into some extremist progressive group. This guy never had a run in with an insurance company, he is basically rich and spent 2022/2023 just hanging out in HI living the good life.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: interupt42

Wow...that's pretty interesting!

Wonder what that's all about. "Insurance" maybe?

What does he know?

ETA - Good find!

Yeah I thought it was very interesting especially with all the questionable actions surrounding the case.

Also the guy is very well versed software engineer from what it appears.

You would think he would be very aware that they would try to kill his account to prevent his deadman switch from firing and have some type of distributed system ready to go off to multiple distributed sources. His github even indicated he was associated with a class on creating a bot service and AI tech versed. so he has the ability and knowledge to create an well versed deadman switch.

At first I thought it was a youtube account setup by someone trying to capitalize or troll, but I checked and it was created years ago although it had only had 1 video at the time.

His actions appear to be someone wanting and expecting to get arrested with a plan to disclose or bring something to the forefront. I did check his other social media accounts that all got scrubbed with exception to his github account (which as of yesterday was still up). Although his github repository did appear to indicate it was updated a few hours ago but the link to it did not work.

Its been a crazy bizzaro world for close to a decade so not much will surprise me and what may come out of this.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Censors seem to have kept a lid on the contents of his manifesto.

Basically all I know there, is he had a manifesto, seemed to harbor ill will to corporate actors, and sympathized with the Unabomber. Also, the Unabomber’s own essays seem to have caused his fall out from his book club friends in HI. Perhaps that was the catalyst that sucked him into whatever cult may have inspired this sick human sacrifice.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

I’d be curious how much of those lawsuits are what we would consider frivolous though.

I’d say most is car related, so that would fall under car insurance (which is also a problem in many places).

Then for the rest, we’d have to separate what gets charged as damages, or actual health costs. If it’s health costs, it’s health services rendered. Damages would likely be paid out by blanket policies, home insurance, or business insurance.

I’d be shocked if overall health industry costs were more than 5% coming from litigation.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

Have you ever looked at your Explanation of Benefits for a medical claim?

A charge will come in at $10,000. Your coverage will pay $2,000 of it, and you'll pay up to your deductible limit. Assuming your deductible is met, where did the other $8,000 go? Well, it turns out this happens all the time. Insurers negotiate with providers to reduce the costs, but you as a consumer can't. So, you can't even use actual charges as a baseline because they're already inflated.

And, if you back up a step from there and ask the provider why their costs are inflated, they will tell you because they know the insurance companies won't pay the full amount so they aim high in hopes they get the "real" costs covered.

This onion has so many layers it's staggering. To truly fix the problem you have to peel back every layer of the onion at each level of the problem.

Another example is civil lawsuits. Why to they ask for tens of millions in damages? Because two reasons. One, because they know they'll never get awarded this amount. And two, because the attorney working pro-bono has to build gigantic fees in for himself (not the injured party).

And it goes on like this at every single level. Getting to the truth is like wading through endless thick mud.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: ByeByeAmericanPie

OMG cryptic BS galore!!!

- Delay or defend, deny, depose

- Monopoly money

- Tommy Hilfiger

- Hello World

- 12/11/2024

This kid sounds like he got sucked into a death cult!

Don't forget the manifesto, classic cult tool.

Rich kid too, so all the time in the world not needing to work and can just be sucked into some extremist progressive group. This guy never had a run in with an insurance company, he is basically rich and spent 2022/2023 just hanging out in HI living the good life.

And Baltimore and San Francisco

There was a large contingent of people who felt that, all though murder is wrong, the insurance Executive deserved what came to him.

Now that it appears as if the murderer is also part of the upper class; wasn't acting on some injustice he experienced personally; but was instead just another spoiled social justice warrior; does that change the original feelings that the murder was deserved.

Upper class on Upper class violence doesn't have the same appeal as when we original assumed the murderer was some guy who lost someone or something to the system.