Why I am not a Zionist

a reply to: whereislogic

Thank you.
I am glad to see you writing as opposed to posting large blocks of quoted text. Your writing is a bit less intimidating to look at.

originally posted by: KnowItAllKnowNothin
a reply to: FullHeathen

Do only folks whom believe in isms and ists get hot running water at my fingertips, and flushing toilets ?

Nationalism, called by the weekly magazine Asiaweek “the Last Ugly Ism,” is one of the unchanging factors that continues to provoke hatred and bloodshed. That magazine stated: “If pride in being a Serb means hating a Croat, if freedom for an Armenian means revenge on a Turk, if independence for a Zulu means subjugating a Xhosa and democracy for a Romanian means expelling a Hungarian, then nationalism has already put on its ugliest face.”

We are reminded of what Albert Einstein once said: “Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind.” Nearly everybody gets it at one time or another, and it continues to spread. Back in 1946, British historian Arnold Toynbee wrote: “Patriotism . . . has very largely superseded Christianity as the religion of the Western World.”

Nationalism is well described by the psalmist’s expression, “the pestilence causing adversities.” (Psalm 91:3) It has been like a plague on humanity, leading to untold suffering. Nationalism with its resultant hatred of other peoples has existed for centuries. Today, nationalism continues to fan the flames of divisiveness, and human rulers have not been able to stop it.

Many authorities recognize that nationalism and self-interest are the root of the world’s problems. For example, former United Nations Secretary-General U Thant observed: “So many of the problems that we face today are due to, or the result of, false attitudes . . . Among these is the concept of narrow nationalism​—‘my country, right or wrong.’” Still, nations today, engrossed in self-interest, are clamoring more and more for their own sovereignty. Those who have the advantage do not wish to give up even a little of it. For example, the International Herald Tribune made this observation about the European Union: “Rivalry and mistrust remain basic patterns of European politics. For most EU member states, it is still unacceptable for one of their peers to gain greater influence and take the lead.”

God’s Word, the Bible, correctly describes the result of all human rule, saying: “Man has dominated man to his injury.” (Ecclesiastes 8:9) By breaking the world up into their own separate dominions, groups of men as well as individuals have experienced the fulfillment of this Bible principle: “One isolating himself will seek his own selfish longing; against all practical wisdom he will break forth.”​—Proverbs 18:1.

Our Creator, who knows what is best for us, never purposed for humans to set up their own governments and rule themselves. By doing so, men have ignored God’s purpose and the fact that everything belongs to him. (consider that next time you hear the propagandistic slogan: “From the river to the sea ...”; followed by whatever people want to fill in there, depending on what side they are picking.)

a reply to: FullHeathen

Hence polytheism is true.

If the god we recognize only exists as a definition in our minds. It only proves our ability to delude ourselves. The few that find the true God receive unmistakable signs that are shared in Revelation and Exodus 19:16-2. The sound of mighty wind as the holy ghost cleanses our mind. The sound of the seven trumpets as the seven demons turn into the seven angels. The sound of thunder at the mountain top.

As long as Holy texts exist there will always be fundamentalists.

And those ... "Theologians may quarrel, but the mystics of the world speak the same language" –Meister Eckhart (1260-1328).

a reply to: glend

If the god we recognize only exists as a definition in our minds. It only proves our ability to delude ourselves.

Well yeah. We do that. It happens. It won't stop happening.

And those ... "Theologians may quarrel, but the mystics of the world speak the same language" –Meister Eckhart (1260-1328).

My son, who studied Ananda for years, even hung out with Walter a few times, told me something a couple of weeks ago.

He spoke of an Eastern mystic who was given a Bible. He read the whole thing through and concluded that there was nothing spiritual or enlightening in it.

The closest I can come to the mystical is contained in Tao Te Ching chapter 1. To me that means that the way (for want of a name) is essentially unknowable. The named is "the mother of all things".

Free from desire you see the mystery
Full of desire you see the manifestations.
These two have the same origin but differ in name.
That is the secret,
the secret of secrets,
The gate to all mysteries.

- Stefan Stenudd translation

Hanging out with the mother of all things isn't that bad. Sure, it seems less mystically advanced, by why should people pretend to know the unknowable, that would also be delusion.

What I like about Tao Te Ching is that it is explicitly written from the human perspective. It doesn't pretend to be handed down from on high. To disagree with certain of what is written is not a crime against God.

a reply to: FullHeathen

He spoke of an Eastern mystic who was given a Bible. He read the whole thing through and concluded that there was nothing spiritual or enlightening in it.

The bible doesn't need to be spiritual or enlightening. It only needs to convince the reader that they should strive for the spiritual. To give up all their worldly pearls for the one pearl of great value. If that be our single desire. That single desire is guaranteed (aka Deuteronomy 30:11-14) to awaken the spirituality within. (also in Tao Te Ching "Freed from desire, you can see the hidden mystery".)

Many Christians including 13th century French Christian mystic Marguerite Porete have achieved spiritual awakening.

the way (for want of a name) is essentially unknowable

The way is knowable. Its the source called darkness that is not. The darkness can only be experienced (witnessed). Bathing in that inner chamber breaks down the segmentation between our local consciousness and the whole. We experience all as one.

What I like about Tao Te Ching is that it is explicitly written from the human perspective. It doesn't pretend to be handed down from on high. To disagree with certain of what is written is not a crime against God.

Yes there is much to like about Tao Te Ching. But there is no reason a Christian cannot read other religions to have a better understanding of their own.

a reply to: glend

To give up all their worldly pearls for the one pearl of great value.

That comes naturally to mortals.

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.
Blade Runner - Tears in rain monologue

Here is number 3 of Noahide laws from the Chabad page.

Do not murder.
The value of human life cannot be measured. To destroy a single human life is to destroy the entire world—because, for that person, the world has ceased to exist. It follows that by sustaining a single human life, you are sustaining an entire universe.

Whoever wrote that may know a thing or two.
I've seen it, and I've felt it, a universe wink out, the first time a person died in my presence.

I don't have to experience it over and over to know it to be true. Of all the times people have died in my presence that was the only time I felt it.

I think that people sometimes chase an experience that really need only be experienced once. Take Christian baptism for instance. Is it once or is it to be repeated over and over? That's meant to be rhetorical.

It is written that Jesus said “ 'Get up, take your mat and go home.' Then the man got up and went home."

originally posted by: FullHeathen
a reply to: DBCowboy


Having said that, the past is the past. Israel has the same right to exist as any other country does, including the United States.

So you are a Zionist.

a reply to: DBCowboy

No.
The word Zion has no meaning for me. Therefore, adding -ist to it has even less.

I really don't know the history of Kosovo much, but I remember Pres. Clinton favored Kosovar independence and the U.S. bombed hell out of Serbia and Montenegro.

Should we label ourselves Kosovists if we are U.S. citizens? I don't think so. I wasn't even particularly in favor of Kosovar independence.

a reply to: FullHeathen

That comes naturally to mortals.

Certainly when we age we grow wiser. Seeing our youthful desires of yesteryear as acts of futility in themselves. But then new desires are born. Desires to escape pain. Desires to be healthy. Desires to be young. Desires to live in the past. Desires to live differently in the future.

I've seen it, and I've felt it, a universe wink out, the first time a person died in my presence.

Great insight FullHeathen. Have you heard the saying from Christian Mystic Meister Eckhart “The eye through which I see God is the same eye through which God sees me; my eye and God's eye are one eye, one seeing, one knowing, one love.”. You have tasted that one knowing when the person died in your presence. Don't allow that taste be your last taste.

a reply to: FullHeathen

This is great once again! s/f

a reply to: JJproductions

Thank you very much.

See the first line on my signature block. I did steal it from one of your threads.

I just overcame trepidation, thinking it may be my Swan song.

originally posted by: FullHeathen
Yes. Absolutely!

It's great to be agreeable Mr. 99.99999999999999999423%Heathen !

Have a better than average day.

a reply to: whereislogic

I'm with ya there WIL, and as the 99,99957348843% heathen remarqued : I also appreciate your shorter, and more personal posts.

Ideas and concepts that divide : or are non-divisive ?

a reply to: KnowItAllKnowNothin

Mr. 99.99999999999999999423%Heathen !

I repent! Absolutism: bad!

I should have gone with the name Wholeheathen,
That way I would have an excuse:
"Just rounded up to the next whole number."