Why I am not a Zionist

Simple answer: Religious prejudice. There, I said it.

Although I once considered myself to be a Christian of a particular sect, I sought for years to be a normal, regular Christian. From sectarian, to Protestant, to Ecumenical, I became more liberal, more accepting of common humanity, and scientific method and history and archaeological studies. Eventually, I discovered myself not as a normal Christian, but not Christian at all.

Biblical Fundamentalism posits certain propositions which are not consistent with accepted reality:

1) Young Earth Creationism. Like Adam was created as first human less than 6,050 years ago.

2) Noah became a new human progenitor circa 2348 BC after a Worldwide flood which destroyed all other humans except Noah's family.

3) Millions of Israelites left Egypt some time between 1400 - 1200 BC, to invade and conquer Canaan.

4) David established a United Kingdom of Israel around 1000 BC

5) David had a son, Solomon who turned the "United Kingdom" into a flourishing civilization known Worldwide.

5) The One and Only God chose the Canaanite founded Jerusalem (founded on the Canaanite god of evening, literally) to be the Zion, capital of Worldwide theocratic rule.

7) Somehow or other the LORD's messiah will rule the World from Jerusalem, beginning the "Age to Come".

These propositions have no credible evidence to support them historically. I have no rational reason to believe them.

but:
www.haaretz.com... 1.6455144" target="_blank" class="postlink">The Messianic Zionist Religion Whose Believers Worship Judaism (But Can't Practice It)
if that link doesn't work try footnote 7 where it says [archived] from Wikipedia en.wikipedia.org...

But who are these Noahides? They are members of a new religion, subordinate to Judaism, founded by rabbis from Israel, mainly from Chabad and the religious Zionist movement.
...
But the Noahides are a theological phenomenon of very recent vintage. It’s a form of Zionist mission, which seeks to create a world religion whose believers adore the Jewish people and the State of Israel – without belonging to either. The believers are required to accept the supremacy of Judaism but are not accepted into the Jewish people and are even barred from upholding such commandments as Sabbath observance. Anyone who wishes to be a Noahide is called upon mainly to recognize the Jewish people and its state.

I recognize Jewish people just fine. They aren't all Chabad or Orthodox. I won't pretend that they are. They aren't all Zionist either. I won't pretend that they are. Jews existed without a modern state of Israel. I really don't believe that the existence of the Jews depends upon one particular state. The future of the World does not depend upon the eradication of Palestine.

see also: www.chabad.org...

Note: I accidently watched Netanyahu's U.N. speech this morning. It triggered me, especially when he claimed that progressive protesters (many of them Jewish) were being paid by Iran. Sort of like how other protesters are said to be paid by Soros.

This is my response.

a reply to: FullHeathen

Isms and ists : to divide and conquer.

Dogma and doctrine : to separate and control.

Labels and definitions : to wear, incite "pride", and differentiate.

What's left when these are eliminated ?

a reply to: KnowItAllKnowNothin

What's left when these are eliminated ?

Label-less people?

I fear to go so far as to say "a bunch of animals". I sort of like hot running water at my fingertips, and flushing toilets.

a reply to: FullHeathen

I suppose labelless is better than libelous.

Do only folks whom believe in isms and ists get hot running water at my fingertips, and flushing toilets ?

Be wary of fans of such claiming they were the creators : smells like pride.

Can we put people first, yet avoid the labels of humanist, or humanism ?

a reply to: KnowItAllKnowNothin

Do only folks whom believe in isms and ists get hot running water at my fingertips, and flushing toilets ?

You gotta believe that the tap works and that the lever or pull chain does too. Randomly pushing, pulling, and twisting everything in sight might get a bit frantic, especially if you fail to remember what worked before. Then you would have to start the whole frantic process over again from scratch.

Can we put people first, yet avoid the labels of humanist, or humanism ?

Sure. Just don't call yourself that. I have yet to hear anyone say to another "You! You humanist! You filthy, disgusting humanist! How can you live with yourself? Go away, I'm puking."

a reply to: FullHeathen

The future of the World does not depend upon the eradication of Palestine.

No, but it may depend on the eradication of Hezbollah and all similar war-mongering violent ideologists.

People would do well to consider just how many countries have been infiltrated via mass migration by radical, violent ideologists whose only goal is world domination.

a reply to: FullHeathen

The future of the World does not depend upon the eradication of Palestine.

Nor does the future of the World depend upon the eradication of Israel, and yet, they are literally surrounded by countries that include in their charters the destruction of the state of Israel and elimination of all Jews on Earth.

a reply to: FullHeathen

Whole countries threading and committing large amounts of resources to wipe Isreal off the face of the map. Negotiated peace deals and cease fires broken. Palestinians rejecting the two state solution. Israel under on going bombardment. With Isreal having nothing to lose, why wouldn’t Isreal take a stand. What did you expect to happen?

a reply to: Moon68

elimination of all Jews on Earth

I would like to see such a charter.

a reply to: FullHeathen


The original founding document for Hamas.

The Covenant
of the
Islamic Resistance Movement

18 August 1988

avalon.law.yale.edu...



Peaceful Solutions, Initiatives and International Conferences:

Article Thirteen:

Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement. Abusing any part of Palestine is abuse directed against part of religion. Nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its religion. Its members have been fed on that. For the sake of hoisting the banner of Allah over their homeland they fight. "Allah will be prominent, but most people do not know."

Now and then the call goes out for the convening of an international conference to look for ways of solving the (Palestinian) question. Some accept, others reject the idea, for this or other reason, with one stipulation or more for consent to convening the conference and participating in it. Knowing the parties constituting the conference, their past and present attitudes towards Moslem problems, the Islamic Resistance Movement does not consider these conferences capable of realising the demands, restoring the rights or doing justice to the oppressed. These conferences are only ways of setting the infidels in the land of the Moslems as arbitraters. When did the infidels do justice to the believers?

"But the Jews will not be pleased with thee, neither the Christians, until thou follow their religion; say, The direction of Allah is the true direction. And verily if thou follow their desires, after the knowledge which hath been given thee, thou shalt find no patron or protector against Allah." (The Cow - verse 120).
There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors. The Palestinian people know better than to consent to having their future, rights and fate toyed with. As in said in the honourable Hadith:

"The people of Syria are Allah's lash in His land. He wreaks His vengeance through them against whomsoever He wishes among His slaves It is unthinkable that those who are double-faced among them should prosper over the faithful. They will certainly die out of grief and desperation."

a reply to: FullHeathen

The Covenant
of the
Islamic Resistance Movement

avalon.law.yale.edu...


In The Name Of The Most Merciful Allah

Introduction


This Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS), clarifies its picture, reveals its identity, outlines its stand, explains its aims, speaks about its hopes, and calls for its support, adoption and joining its ranks. Our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious. It needs all sincere efforts. It is a step that inevitably should be followed by other steps. The Movement is but one squadron that should be supported by more and more squadrons from this vast Arab and Islamic world, until the enemy is vanquished and Allah's victory is realised.

a reply to: Lazy88

This is a religious conspiracy forum post. I should have specified what I mean by Zionism.

Zionism as taught by Orthodox Judaic Zionists, Christian Zionists, and Noahide Zionists is the belief that God, the Creator has determined that Jews (remnant of Israel) must have unitary control of a historic territory (Eretz Israel), with Jerusalem as its capital. That is necessary for the "age to come" to come.

I am not a religious Zionist in any way, shape, or form.

a reply to: FullHeathen

UN Teachers Call To Murder Jews, Reveals New Report

unwatch.org...

WASHINGTON, March 14, 2023 — Teachers and schools at the UN agency that runs education and social services for Palestinians regularly call to murder Jews, and create teaching materials that glorify terrorism, encourage martyrdom, demonize Israelis and incite antisemitism, reveals a new report by two independent research and monitoring groups.

a reply to: Lazy88

I suppose I should have slammed Fundamentalist Islam too.
Slam, slam, slam:

I do not believe that Islam is true.
I do not believe in Allah.
I am polytheist.
I do not believe in the last day.
I do not believe in paradise.
I do not believe that Mohamed's apocalyptical vision, Night Journey to the last mosque, had anything to do with Jerusalem.
I do not believe that Islam must control Jerusalem or any part of Palestine.
---------
Holy war is bad for peace all around.

a reply to: Lazy88

Okay. That looks bad.

From earlier post:

wipe Isreal off the face of the map.

Religious Zionism teaches that there must be no Palestine.

"From the river to the sea
Only Israel there will be."

That's not what the League of Nations nor the United Nations had in mind for partition.

See what you made me do!!!
I was tricked into mixing religion and politics.
Now I must repent and ... something... don't know quite what.

originally posted by: KnowItAllKnowNothin
a reply to: FullHeathen

Isms and ists : to divide and conquer.

Dogma and doctrine : to separate and control.

Labels and definitions : to wear, incite "pride", and differentiate.

What's left when these are eliminated ?

"Othering" is the practice of using labels in a divisive fashion. Using labels to say these things (or qualities) cannot coexist and must compete for dominance. Ideas may dominate but demographics may not, because that implies certain species or kinds are superior to others while philosophy transcends flesh and ethnics. It is the American ideal that all people regardless of their biological persuasion may pursue and even excel in a philosophy regardless of their organic attributes including genetic predisposition.

To answer your question, what's left is meritocratic self determinism. The capacity to decide your own reward by what you are willing to sacrifice and commit.

Note: I accidently watched Netanyahu's U.N. speech this morning. It triggered me, especially when he claimed that progressive protesters (many of them Jewish) were being paid by Iran. Sort of like how other protesters are said to be paid by Soros.

This is my response.

If ever I see the Dark Lord of the Sith on tv. I raise my shields to maximum. I don't allow any of his darkness to invade my core. I can only pray that the woman and children tortured by that soulless zombie find their peace in Allah. Yet I also think. Without darkness, none of us would search for the light. So Netanyahu' and his kin, only make the righteous stronger. Forcing us to empower within which nothing can kill nor harm.

Blessings to your heart FullHeathen for caring for others.

a reply to: glend

Thank you.

To be honest. I've been against the whole Noahide religion for the last 15 years, since I found out about it. I really, really don't want it to prevail over the whole Earth.

It was pretty much resurrected single handedly by Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson from the Talmud and Maimonides.

It's already been adopted by the U.S. (Maybe only binding on Presidents)

H.J.Res.104 — 102nd Congress (1991-1992)

H.J.Res.104
One Hundred Second Congress of the United States of America
AT THE FIRST SESSION
Begun and held at the City of Washington on Thursday, the third day of January, one thousand nine hundred and ninety-one
Joint Resolution To designate March 26, 1991, as `Education Day, U.S.A.'.

Whereas Congress recognizes the historical tradition of ethical values and principles which are the basis of civilized society and upon which our great Nation was founded;
Whereas these ethical values and principles have been the bedrock of society from the dawn of civilization, when they were known as the Seven Noahide Laws;
Whereas without these ethical values and principles the edifice of civilization stands in serious peril of returning to chaos;
Whereas society is profoundly concerned with the recent weakening of these principles that has resulted in crises that beleaguer and threaten the fabric of civilized society;
Whereas the justified preoccupation with these crises must not let the citizens of this Nation lose sight of their responsibility to transmit these historical ethical values from our distinguished past to the generations of the future;
Whereas the Lubavitch movement has fostered and promoted these ethical values and principles throughout the world;
Whereas Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson, leader of the Lubavitch movement, is universally respected and revered and his eighty-ninth birthday falls on March 26, 1991;
Whereas in tribute to this great spiritual leader, `the rebbe', this, his ninetieth year will be seen as one of `education and giving', the year in which we turn to education and charity to return the world to the moral and ethical values contained in the Seven Noahide Laws; and Whereas this will be reflected in an international scroll of honor signed by the President of the United States and other heads of state:
Now, therefore, be it
Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of
America in Congress assembled, That March 26, 1991, the start of the ninetieth
year of Rabbi Menachem Schneerson, leader of the worldwide Lubavitch movement,
is designated as `Education Day, U.S.A.'. The President is requested to issue
a proclamation calling upon the people of the United States to observe such
day with appropriate ceremonies and activities.
Speaker of the House of Representatives.
Vice President of the United States and
President of the Senate.

I am disturbed that a country with religious freedom has adopted Noahidism as its quasi official religion.

Sure, the only rule that I could suffer for personally is the first "Do not profane G‑d’s Oneness in any way. Acknowledge that there is a single G‑d who cares about what we are doing and desires that we take care of His world" but it's the principle of the thing.

This Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson told Netanyahu that he would see the Messiah in his lifetime. Now I imagine Netanyahu feverishly trying to wipe out Palestine to make way for the Messiah. He's a fanatic!

sorry. too political

a reply to: FullHeathen

Zi·on·ism
[ˈzīəˌnizəm]
noun
a movement for (originally) the re-establishment and (now) the development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel. It was established as a political organization in 1897 under Theodor Herzl, and was later led by Chaim Weizmann.

www.bing.com... efinition&qs=HS&smvpcn=0&swbcn=10&sc=10-7&sp=1&ghc=0&cvid=79d9d7616348411db20930ed478d4ab8&clckatsg=1&hsmssg=0


It's why I am a Zionist. I think a Jewish nation should exist.