Trump just announced that Zelenskyy has requested to meet with him tomorrow at Trump Tower

originally posted by: Degradation33
I say we not only keep aiding Ukraine's fight, we test Putin with it.

apnews.com...

Let's aid some long range missiles and tell them target some unoccupied outpost of no value just to poke the Russian Nuclear Bear.

That's how Putin plays with the world, so we should play back and tell Ukraine to target some ice-fishing shack in the arctic. Just random meaningless thing to say, "What are you gonna do, now?"

I want to know why Zelensky needs Trump's peace mediation or input here. Perhaps it's a feel out thing. Seeing where it stands. His last major interaction with Trump was Trump leveraging Aid, so...

That makes me think Trump's answer will be to concede several oblasts and 3 major Eastern Ukrainian Cities that would connect Crimea to Russia around the entire Sea of Azov. Meaning Ukraine also loses the Sea of Azov. Anything Trump proposes to "end it in a day" would be more appeasing to Russia and give up territory.

And if he plays his cards right Putin might even send him a gilded invite to his ostentatious Black Sea Palace. And he can bask in the glow of Putin treating him like he would Xi Jinping or Kim Jung Un.

I hope Zelensky is smart enough to see Trump for the authoritarian/king/dictator fanboy he is.

Yeah you do that and watch Putin lob a few nukes back and wipe out a few cities entirely killing tens of thousands. Yep that’s going to teach him🙄🙄🙄. Not sure what some of ya’s aren’t getting here?

originally posted by: KrustyKrab

originally posted by: Degradation33
I say we not only keep aiding Ukraine's fight, we test Putin with it.

apnews.com...

Let's aid some long range missiles and tell them target some unoccupied outpost of no value just to poke the Russian Nuclear Bear.

That's how Putin plays with the world, so we should play back and tell Ukraine to target some ice-fishing shack in the arctic. Just random meaningless thing to say, "What are you gonna do, now?"

I want to know why Zelensky needs Trump's peace mediation or input here. Perhaps it's a feel out thing. Seeing where it stands. His last major interaction with Trump was Trump leveraging Aid, so...

That makes me think Trump's answer will be to concede several oblasts and 3 major Eastern Ukrainian Cities that would connect Crimea to Russia around the entire Sea of Azov. Meaning Ukraine also loses the Sea of Azov. Anything Trump proposes to "end it in a day" would be more appeasing to Russia and give up territory.

And if he plays his cards right Putin might even send him a gilded invite to his ostentatious Black Sea Palace. And he can bask in the glow of Putin treating him like he would Xi Jinping or Kim Jung Un.

I hope Zelensky is smart enough to see Trump for the authoritarian/king/dictator fanboy he is.

Yeah you do that and watch Putin lob a few nukes back and wipe out a few cities entirely killing tens of thousands. Yep that’s going to teach him🙄🙄🙄. Not sure what some of ya’s aren’t getting here?

Funny how democrats/liberals are now the warhawks lol.

They keep chasing their tails in circles, and all it takes is to chuck whatever narrative that Biden etc pushes and it sticks. And the hamster wheel continues to churn.

a reply to: Degradation33

I want to know why Zelensky needs Trump's peace mediation or input here. Perhaps it's a feel out thing. Seeing where it stands. His last major interaction with Trump was Trump leveraging Aid, so...

He wants a continued stream of billions of our dollars is what he wants. This isn’t rocket science. It’s painfully obvious that Zelenskyy couldn’t care less about his people or this # would’ve already stopped. He knows he can’t win this war.

I’m sick of seeing and hearing about all the problems we’ve here and seeing nothing being done about them and what do we keep hearing? Uhhh we don’t have the money, we need to shut down the gov, SS going to end, schools don’t have money and resources, tent cities in every major city, homeless vets, elderly and disabled on gov assistance that can’t survive, crap medical for vets, police not having proper funding, people not being able to afford housing, food, and energy, etc, etc, etc…..but we have billions to fund some other countries war with a super power….it’s absolute horse #. 😡😡😡

I’m currently and will always be on disability, I try and live on $1,100 a month, I can’t do it and it’s really hard to watch billions and billions of dollars being sent to pay for someone’s payroll and pension in another country because they have some delusion they’re going to win a war they can’t win. #%!&$ me running.

a reply to: KrustyKrab

What are the Russian words for sabre and rattling?

Russia's red line at the UN sounds more the same old from them.

They draw the line at Ukraine having capability to strike inside Russia? Yawn. What does he want Ukraine to make their own missiles?

Iran fires missiles they get from Russia, China, and North Korea at our allies. I don't see why our western supply chains as any different.

How dare we not supply weapons? And how dare they not use them to fight Russia?

www.defensenews.com...

This month the European Parliament asked European Union members to “immediately” lift deep strike restrictions, and so have top U.S. House Republicans and several leading congressional Democrats. Nonetheless, the U.S. approach remains hesitant.

Despite modest estimates and russian propaganda, Russia just lost their ass in their failed lightening war on Ukraine. Like 10% of their tanks are left. They're depleted.

They are in only a position to make threats. They also don't have lasers that knock down their most advanced hypersonic ICBMs from orbit.

Not the 80s anymore, but because of the 80s we could possibly have a defense that can target any Russian or Chinese hypersonic nuclear warhead before it even leaves their airspace. I read or heard Raytheon makes ones to mount on aircraft, or the two stage stratosphere interceptors, that don't exist.

Plus ourselves (and allies) know where they fire anything of threat from. And it's not like you can stop the geospatial folks from watching those locations 24/7.

A nuclear weapon hitting US or allies soil forgets what we spent all the above board, but especially the "black" budget on. Which could be approaching Star Trek.

originally posted by: Degradation33
a reply to: KrustyKrab

What are the Russian words for sabre and rattling?

Russia's red line at the UN sounds more the same old from him.

He draws the line at Ukraine having capability to strike inside Russia. Yawn. What does he want them to make their own missiles?

Iran first missiles the got from Russia, China, and North Korea at our allies. I don't see why our western supply chains as any different.

How dare we not supply weapons? And how dare they not use them to fight Russia?

www.defensenews.com...

This month the European Parliament asked European Union members to “immediately” lift deep strike restrictions, and so have top U.S. House Republicans and several leading congressional Democrats. Nonetheless, the U.S. approach remains hesitant.

Despite modest estimates and russian propaganda, Russia just lost their ass in their failed lightening war on Ukraine. Like 10% of their tanks are left. They're depleted.

They are in only a position to make threats. They also don't have lasers that knock down their most advanced hypersonic ICBMs from orbit.

Not the 80s anymore, but because of the 80s we could possibly have a defense that can target any Russian or Chinese hypersonic nuclear warhead before it even leaves their airspace. I read or heard Raytheon makes ones to mount on the two stage stratosphere interceptors, that don't exist.

Plus ourselves (and allies) know where they fire anything of threat from. And it's not like you can stop the geospatial folks from watching those locations 24/7.

A nuclear weapon hitting US soil forgets what we spent all the above board, but especially the "black" budget on.

You keep believing all that. Russia has the capability to wipe them out. Hell one Russian sub can probably take out Ukraine.

If you’re suggesting America get involved in a nuclear war with Russia you’re insane besides it’s not our war to be involved with in the first place. But you keep beating those war drums and poking the bear.

a reply to: KrustyKrab

Naw, I'm just saying there's no reason to fear Putin or his red line, even push it. We can mock it, just like Russia's very failed attempt to show its "power" in Ukraine.

He's taking the see-through Iran approach.

This BS war is because Ukraine didn't follow puppet state Belarus and Lukashenko into Making The USSR Great... a thing again.. They elected a populist celebrity that wanted to join NATO. Because it raises the standard of living. Poland entered NATO at 48% the average per capita GDP (EU) and now stands at 82%, above both Ukraine and Russia in living standards.

Putin wanted to keep Ukraine a downtrodden, corrupt, former Soviet vassel state and keep the prosperity and evolution of humanity off his doorstep.

This is not Ukraine v. Russia. It's NATO via Ukraine v. Russia. Like he's posturing at NATO through Ukraine.

I think he's taking it up a notch in the most idle, hollow, and transparent of terms.

a reply to: Degradation33

Please don’t take anything I’m saying the wrong way. I would like nothing more than to see Ukraine come out of this intact with a future but sometimes you have to cut your losses to move forward. With the right deal under a negotiation Ukraine could still have a prosperous future, the way it’s going now I don’t see that happening without a insermountable cost to the country and civilian population.

a reply to: KrustyKrab


That's out of step with others. Worth noting is Biden is also a coward on war so he's not giving Ukraine anything beyond a 60 mile range. And those are unguided. Zelensky wants 180 miles guided.

But I think I can predict how Trump would "end this in a day."

He's gonna make Ukraine give up everything around the Sea of Azov by saying, "Were not helping, so you either take that or fight Russia without us."

Basically, i think he's gonna give Ukraine a Catch 22 that favors Russia like a 1948 Arab state. Russia gets to save face. Stop hemorrhaging money and military resources, and Ukraine says goodbye to Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaporizhzhya, and Kherson.

And will probably include a provision at Russian insistance (and supported by Trump) to never join NATO.

And the reason he'll do that is because he would rather pull us from NATO (over 'principle') and slap import tariffs 5 to 10 times higher than the NATO average on all our former treaty organization allies.

That's a lot of my guessing, but that's how he see Trump handling it.

A "Don" has gotta give an offer that can't be refused.

"Either your concession of these territories or Ukrainian brains will be on this ceasefire deal."

The equilibrium that forms will be some twisted unspoken Nash-like non-compete clause from one brutal, cruel, and sociopathic businessman to another.

Such is way the world works I guess.

originally posted by: Solvedit

originally posted by: putnam6
So how much is the free world supposed to pay to keep Ukraine at war, the current stalemate was inevitable and the only positive is its degraded TF out of Russia as for America's finances oh well it isn't our first boondoggle, but it seems we can absorb it.

Solvedit replied:

What would it cost to stop Putin and keep our treaty obligations to NATO if we waited until he gobbled up every nation around him that wasn't a member? He'd have a lot more conscripts, factories, and farmland.

Putnam6 replied:

KeY quote in my post degraded AF

He couldn't take Ukraine so what makes you think he can "gobble" up any other NATO-protected country.

Do you remember saying "So how much is the free world supposed to pay to keep Ukraine at war," ?

So in your own words, if we don't pay now to keep Ukraine at war, then they won't be able to keep up the war. Then their resources would be added to Putin's war machine.

Then it would cost more to rein in Putin later.

So we pay Ukraine for perpetual war against Russia so they don't lose a sliver of land? and what resources are in Donetsk and Luhansk that are vital to the West?

Again not only is Russia degraded all NATO are now jazzed and pretty much on a pre-war footing, Russia poses much less of a threat than it did before the invasion, and will likely need a decade to reconstitute it's troop and experienced lost in this SMO.

originally posted by: Degradation33
I say we not only keep aiding Ukraine's fight, we test Putin with it.

apnews.com...

Let's aid some long range missiles and tell them target some unoccupied outpost of no value just to poke the Russian Nuclear Bear.

That's how Putin plays with the world, so we should play back and tell Ukraine to target some ice-fishing shack in the arctic. Just random meaningless thing to say, "What are you gonna do, now?"

I want to know why Zelensky needs Trump's peace mediation or input here. Perhaps it's a feel out thing. Seeing where it stands. His last major interaction with Trump was Trump leveraging Aid, so...

That makes me think Trump's answer will be to concede several oblasts and 3 major Eastern Ukrainian Cities that would connect Crimea to Russia around the entire Sea of Azov. Meaning Ukraine also loses the Sea of Azov. Anything Trump proposes to "end it in a day" would be more appeasing to Russia and give up territory.

And if he plays his cards right Putin might even send him a gilded invite to his ostentatious Black Sea Palace. And he can bask in the glow of Putin treating him like he would Xi Jinping or Kim Jung Un.

I hope Zelensky is smart enough to see Trump for the authoritarian/king/dictator fanboy he is.

Sounds like Victoria Nuland's doctrine.

Im all for getting rid of Putin but Ive yet to see a viable plan that accomplishes that. We can hold Putin to a stalemate in Ukraine for only so long till a generation of Ukrainians is decimated, and all the while Putin is no doubt stirring up discontent in Europe and the West.

Unfortunately, there isn't enough impetus and it shows the iron grip he must have on the Russian GP, so yay for forever wars

a reply to: Degradation33

Weird you have to get your hate for Trump in there, kind of lame when this administration is dropping the ball in every which way.

Tell me what this administration has done to resolve the situation? Hint… not a damn thing but you’ll vote for them next election vs someone that wants to stop it. The liberal mind is something to behold. Y’all make no sense whatsoever.

originally posted by: putnam6

originally posted by: Solvedit

originally posted by: putnam6
So how much is the free world supposed to pay to keep Ukraine at war, the current stalemate was inevitable and the only positive is its degraded TF out of Russia as for America's finances oh well it isn't our first boondoggle, but it seems we can absorb it.

Solvedit replied:

What would it cost to stop Putin and keep our treaty obligations to NATO if we waited until he gobbled up every nation around him that wasn't a member? He'd have a lot more conscripts, factories, and farmland.

Putnam6 replied:

KeY quote in my post degraded AF

He couldn't take Ukraine so what makes you think he can "gobble" up any other NATO-protected country.

Do you remember saying "So how much is the free world supposed to pay to keep Ukraine at war," ?

So in your own words, if we don't pay now to keep Ukraine at war, then they won't be able to keep up the war. Then their resources would be added to Putin's war machine.

Then it would cost more to rein in Putin later.

So we pay Ukraine for perpetual war against Russia so they don't lose a sliver of land? and what resources are in Donetsk and Luhansk that are vital to the West?

The aid has not been enough to keep them from losing a sliver of land.

Ukraine is producing a fair proportion of its own weapons.