Four Killed Dozens Injured in Mass Shooting in Alabama by Multiple Attackers

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: rickymouse
Sounds kind of like this shooting had nothing to do with honest law abiding citizens owning guns.

Taking guns away from good people is not going to solve this problems. Taking guns away from loose cannons, criminals, and gangs will stop these shootings. We need guns to protect us from criminals and crazy people and of course irate bears that want our food or who have a grudge against people. And it is also good to have a gun to protect ourselves against a pissy skunk that threatens us quite often, and an occasional other wild animal that is hungry or cranky.

Why should everyone suffer because of these bad people who own guns.

How does a gun seller tell the difference between 'good people' and 'bad people'?

How does gun ownership stop someone from being shot at random?

Criminals don't get their guns the 'legal' way ,so no shopping at guns stores for them.

Also:









Just two examples

originally posted by: ScarletDarkness

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: rickymouse
Sounds kind of like this shooting had nothing to do with honest law abiding citizens owning guns.

Taking guns away from good people is not going to solve this problems. Taking guns away from loose cannons, criminals, and gangs will stop these shootings. We need guns to protect us from criminals and crazy people and of course irate bears that want our food or who have a grudge against people. And it is also good to have a gun to protect ourselves against a pissy skunk that threatens us quite often, and an occasional other wild animal that is hungry or cranky.

Why should everyone suffer because of these bad people who own guns.

How does a gun seller tell the difference between 'good people' and 'bad people'?

How does gun ownership stop someone from being shot at random?

Criminals don't get their guns the 'legal' way ,so no shopping at guns stores for them.

Also:

Just two examples

Actually some criminals Had legal guns. Dont forget a civilian can turn to criminal with the pull of a trigger or the stab of a knife. but yes,for the most part criminals get illegal guns.

originally posted by: ScarletDarkness

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: rickymouse
Sounds kind of like this shooting had nothing to do with honest law abiding citizens owning guns.

Taking guns away from good people is not going to solve this problems. Taking guns away from loose cannons, criminals, and gangs will stop these shootings. We need guns to protect us from criminals and crazy people and of course irate bears that want our food or who have a grudge against people. And it is also good to have a gun to protect ourselves against a pissy skunk that threatens us quite often, and an occasional other wild animal that is hungry or cranky.

Why should everyone suffer because of these bad people who own guns.

How does a gun seller tell the difference between 'good people' and 'bad people'?

How does gun ownership stop someone from being shot at random?

Criminals don't get their guns the 'legal' way ,so no shopping at guns stores for them.

That is incorrect.

Here’s where guns used in crimes are bought

Also:

Two people were shot. How many would have been shot if firearms were not available?

This situation is actually an example of escalation in shootings caused by the availability of firearms.

Six people shot!

Just two examples

You clearly don't have a clue about the goals of gun control, and that escalation of the number of shooters and victims is not protective and is counter to the argument for gun control.

The goals of gun control are no shootings at all, not even accidents and suicide.

The 'protective' argument for gun proliferation suffers from the problem that it escalates the number of shootings, and is entirely reactive to the additional crime enabled by easy access to firearms. It can never outnumber the crimes.

In the USA, there is a lot of law that is pro-gun, and increases the risk to society far more than it is protective.

Take for instance the 2nd Amendment that is alleged to arm citizens to defend against tyranny: The attempted assassins against Trump no doubt thought that they were fulfilling that.

The 2nd promotes gun violence as a way to achieve political ends, and yet no American is talking about these kooks as 'misguided heroes' complying with their Constitutional obligations.

That's how insane the American political/legal system is in regard to firearms!

There are no colonial or external threats anymore to the USA that an armed public could counter. The biggest threats to US national security and its citizenry are entirely internal - the very divided and radicalized armed citizenry itself.

a reply to: chr0naut

25% of all guns used in crimes are untraceable. Now adjust your inaccurate figures. 😀

And a very high percentage of gun crimes never recover the guns. Go figure. 😃

Your assumed figures are not correct.

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: chr0naut

25% of all guns used in crimes are untraceable. Now adjust your inaccurate figures. 😀

And a very high percentage of gun crimes never recover the guns. Go figure. 😃

Your assumed figures are not correct.

That still means that 75% of guns used in crimes were traceable, and (as per the ATF report) about 99% of those guns, which were both traceable and also were used in the commission of crimes, were 'legally' acquired.

So the ATF figures, which related to those subset of guns which were traceable, were entirely correct.

And even with the added uncertainty of 25% untraceable firearms, still indicates that the majority of guns used in crimes in the USA are purchased 'legally'.

It's just math.

a reply to: chr0naut

The numbers are wrong. They don't count the omitted statistics. 😀

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: chr0naut

The numbers are wrong. They don't count the omitted statistics. 😀

That's not how real-world statistics work.

You can't just make-up whatever numbers you want, to try and fill-in the unknowns. You have to use real objectively-sourced numbers.

a reply to: chr0naut

The 2nd promotes gun violence as a way to achieve political ends

That’s incorrect.
Keeping the government in check is not a “political end”, nor is defending ones self from the government, wild animals, criminals, and extraterrestrials.

Why didn’t the “insurrectionists” on January 6th bring guns?

originally posted by: Vermilion
a reply to: chr0naut

The 2nd promotes gun violence as a way to achieve political ends

That’s incorrect.
Keeping the government in check is not a “political end”

No? Really? There goes Trump's anti-deep-state platform, then.

, nor is defending ones self from the government, wild animals, criminals, and extraterrestrials.

Um, the Constitution would disagree...

Why didn’t the “insurrectionists” on January 6th bring guns?

Why would you believe such a thing? Several were prosecuted for carrying guns at the protest, including AR-15 style rifles which they brandished at security staff. There were several militia groups (Oath Keepers, 3 Percenters) with caches of firearms nearby and ready to deploy to their members, and why would anyone be carrying bear spray, pepper-spray, baseball bats or batons, pipe bombs, Molotov cocktails, hunting-knives, tasers, brass knuckles, screwdrivers and scissors to a 'peaceful protest'?

FINAL REPORT Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol

But, what would the 2nd, in practice, in the real world, look like?

Wouldn't it look like someone taking up arms against those they perceived as government 'tyrannists'?

a reply to: chr0naut

Using assumptive unknowns is not reality. It's fake. 🤣🤣

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: chr0naut

Using assumptive unknowns is not reality. It's fake. 🤣🤣

Precisely.

That was what you were doing.

The ATF were publishing the data from the firearms used in crimes that they have been able to trace. Not some guess about stuff they just didn't know.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Vermilion
a reply to: chr0naut

The 2nd promotes gun violence as a way to achieve political ends

That’s incorrect.
Keeping the government in check is not a “political end”

No? Really? There goes Trump's anti-deep-state platform, then.

, nor is defending ones self from the government, wild animals, criminals, and extraterrestrials.

Um, the Constitution would disagree...

Why didn’t the “insurrectionists” on January 6th bring guns?

Why would you believe such a thing? Several were prosecuted for carrying guns at the protest, including AR-15 style rifles which they brandished at security staff. There were several militia groups (Oath Keepers, 3 Percenters) with caches of firearms nearby and ready to deploy to their members, and why would anyone be carrying bear spray, pepper-spray, baseball bats or batons, pipe bombs, Molotov cocktails, hunting-knives, tasers, brass knuckles, screwdrivers and scissors to a 'peaceful protest'?

FINAL REPORT Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol

But, what would the 2nd, in practice, in the real world, look like?

Wouldn't it look like someone taking up arms against those they perceived as government 'tyrannists'?

Damn that’s a hell of an edit you did there. LoL

Look dude, just because there were a couple people who had a handgun on them doesn’t mean anything and doesn’t make it an armed insurrection.
They were armed regardless.
It’s a regular thing in the states to carry a pistol, like for the past forever.
There was one nutter with maltovs and a crossbow. Big time insurrection material there. LoL

So how was the insurrection by thousands of people, only armed with a couple of pistols rifles and maltovs, as peaceful as it was?
The only person shot or killed was a little unarmed lady who was murdered by an incompetent cop who only got off because of his skin color.

The 2A doesn’t care about politics, only a government gone bad.

No idea what it’ll look like, besides being bloody as hell, because it hasn’t happened yet, but you’ll definitely know it when it happens.

originally posted by: JadedGhost
a reply to: KrustyKrab

Canada is literally on the same land as the US. Yet if you’re in Canada it’ll cost you thousands of dollars to buy an illegal gun, but cross the border into the US and it costs a criminal just a few hundred dollars to buy an illegal gun.

There’s clearly a problem there… how you even going to deny it?

So, that is your nations voters own fault for allowing your BS government absolute power over you.

We still have gonads of brass and bullets to match in most places here. The fact is this, protecting yourself or your family from criminals who rape and murder is a RIGHT. Here we get to protect our children with weapons so that thugs die when they cross that line and it is their right in their sick little brains to cross that line. My right to finish the line with a period.

originally posted by: yuppa
Personally i think we need to go back to wild west justice. RObber shot running from a crime? justified. defending someone ? justified. We dont need the courts to deal with all criminals. Its why people used to be able to take matters into their own hands as long as it was done legally. Gang problem? get a posse together and rub em out. All you have to do is pass a legislation that states if you are doing a crime you give up all rights to a trial unless you surrender.

2nd!
That rule is unwritten and needs to be formalized. The cops busting into your house because you forced them by not surrendering are in high danger, but if you had surrendered peacefully no one else had to get hurt.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: chr0naut

Using assumptive unknowns is not reality. It's fake. 🤣🤣

Precisely.

That was what you were doing.

The ATF were publishing the data from the firearms used in crimes that they have been able to trace. Not some guess about stuff they just didn't know.

Oh my it is rich
Broken clocks belong but the BS in your own head needs to end for your sanity.


Come to the light, we can help you.