This is an anti-free speech right/Nazi/Right Conservatives, a Pro-LGBT community that supports BLM

a reply to: ElitePlebeian2

Except nothing about the Nazi policies were what most people would consider "socialist", they had slave labor and corporations were just extentions of government, and every law Hitler passed slowly eroded away working class rights.

Others have already noted examples.

The issue about discussing socialism and such is that socialist nations have a really bad record of becoming authoritarian hellacapes. And it's mainly because of human nature. But the Nazis were never intending to be socialist, in the sense of achieving communism. That's the biggest difference between say Maos China, and Hitlers Germany.

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: ElitePlebeian2

Except nothing about the Nazi policies were what most people would consider "socialist", they had slave labor and corporations were just extentions of government, and every law Hitler passed slowly eroded away working class rights.

Others have already noted examples.

The issue about discussing socialism and such is that socialist nations have a really bad record of becoming authoritarian hellacapes. And it's mainly because of human nature. But the Nazis were never intending to be socialist, in the sense of achieving communism. That's the biggest difference between say Maos China, and Hitlers Germany.

Well instead of going by mind I did some googling about socialist policies i mentioned so I have some concrete examples in this article I found, with some quotes, link underneath.;

"The Nazis were socialists, and it showed in many of the policies they implemented after coming to power in 1933. First, like the Soviets, the Nazis initiated a war on private property. Not surprisingly, property rights were severely curbed by National Socialism in the name of public welfare.

How did the National Socialists combat private property in Germany? The first step came shortly after the Nazis took control, when they abolished private property. Article 153 of the Weimar constitution guaranteed private property, with expropriation only to occur within the due process of the law, but this article was nullified by a decree on February 28, 1933.

With this, the new National Socialist government had complete control of private property in Germany. While they did not take complete control of the lands like the Bolsheviks did in Russia in 1917, the Nazis issued quotas for industries and farms, and later they reorganized all industry into corporations run by members of the Nazi Party."

The article goes on about the war the nazis waged on businesses;

"Peter Temin wrote about this in Soviet and Nazi Economic Planning, stating:

Both governments reorganized industry into larger units, ostensibly to increase state control over economic activity. The Nazis reorganized industry into 13 administrative groups with a larger number of subgroups to create a private hierarchy for state control. The state could therefore direct a firm’s activities without acquiring direct ownership of enterprises. The pre-existing tendency to form cartels was encouraged to eliminate competition that would destabilize prices."

"This Nazi war on business left industrialists and other businessmen worried that they would have their livelihoods stolen from them, as Günter Reimann explains in The Vampire Economy.

Reimann quotes a letter from a German businessman to an American businessman:

The difference between this and the Russian system is much less than you think, despite the fact that officially we are still independent businessmen.

The letter continues:

Some businessmen have even started studying Marxist theories, so that they will have a better understanding of the present economic system."

And further down in the article;

The War on Agriculture
When the Nazis came to power in 1933, a major interest for them was Lebensbraum (living space) for the “pure” German citizen. Professor Adam Tooze talks about the “hereditary farm” in his book Wages of Destruction:

For the purpose of protecting the peasantry as the “Blood Source of the German People,” the law proposed to create a new category of farm, the Erbhof (hereditary farm), protected against all debt insulated from market forces.

These farms were to be passed down from generation to generation to keep the soil “pure,” and Reich officials even thought that “Erbhof farmers should assume collective responsibility for each other’s debts.” This policy was introduced and supported by the Reich central bank and Reichsnährstand (RNS, State Food Society) officials."

mises.org...

So your statement that; "Except nothing about the Nazi policies were what most people would consider "socialist" seems a bit off to me.

a reply to: Athetos

Will you even read THIS? Would you entertain any of what I might write here as being worthy of your consideration? Maybe you will and maybe you won't. Maybe you can and maybe you can't. Maybe you can help me out here and point out any of what I have posted in tis single thread that you find to be very stupid stuff, even just plain stupid stuff. How about Henry Ford giving money to Hitler, do you find that statement stupid? He did you know and Hitler held Ford in high regard as well.

Sure I read that in a book, several books as well. And sure there is the potential that one author was just repeating another author and so on and so forty but I think that belief holds up pretty well.. How about you? Do you think it is true? That at least one very rich American industrialist supported the rise of Fascism in Germany?

If you don't then all I can say is the disinformation that abounds right now is likely more than most of us, even us here can admit. If you don't then please tell me what I have posted in this thread that you find to be stupid.

a reply to: Freeborn

Each side, especially The Left sides have many different competing factions. 😀

The Right sides have less and have less differences because less government is the key factor. 😉

a reply to: ElitePlebeian2

I've read that article before and what they just so happen to leave out is that fact that they expropriated Jewish citizens land and property, and made corporations part of government.

Corporations are an ultra capitalist concept, under socialism there wouldn't be corporations.

You can see the swing and a miss here:

Some businessmen have even started studying Marxist theories, so that they will have a better understanding of the present economic system.

The subtle antisemitic quote, the Nazis made communism, socialism, and marxism synonymous with one another. Because Marx had a Jewish father, and of course the communist uprising in the east was "Jewish" to them.

The Nazis made ironic, memes before it was 4chan cool.

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: ElitePlebeian2

I've read that article before and what they just so happen to leave out is that fact that they expropriated Jewish citizens land and property, and made corporations part of government.

Corporations are an ultra capitalist concept, under socialism there wouldn't be corporations.

You can see the swing and a miss here:

Some businessmen have even started studying Marxist theories, so that they will have a better understanding of the present economic system.

The subtle antisemitic quote, the Nazis made communism, socialism, and marxism synonymous with one another. Because Marx had a Jewish father, and of course the communist uprising in the east was "Jewish" to them.

The Nazis made ironic, memes before it was 4chan cool.

Still looks pretty socialist to me. The fact they took it from the jews doesnt change much about that.

And they were also not real capitalist corporations anymore since they were owned by the state and markets were turned into monopolies which is anti capitalist. So again all still seems pretty socialist to me.

a reply to: ElitePlebeian2

You can label it socialism you want, but nowhere in Nazi Germany were the workers in control of the means of production.

It was an authoritarian Fascist state. Fascism and socialism are the same two extreme ends of the political spectrum.
If you want to get really technical, most socialist states are or were Leninist - socialist states, which incorporated a big government at first and would end up in a marxist - socialism, state. But we've seen even with China that didn't work, all it took was one man, Henry Kissenger to convince Mao and Deng to adopt capitalism, and abandon Marxist - socialism.

A simple question for everyone.

I was going to ask if anyone actually knows what the desired end goal of Communism is and where does Socialism fit in along the way....but then I remembered that its pointless because everyone seems to have their own ideas without even really looking into it.....and people are so scared to look into things like that with a truly open mind because they are # scared that they might find that their long held locked in preconceived ideas are actually a crock of #!

Goodnight folks.....another long and busy day ahead of me tomorrow.

a reply to: Freeborn

Communism is THE end game goal socialists.
Just as fascism is the end game goal for nationalists.

One requires a crystal castle in the sky mind set.
The other requires a strict program to follow to ensure a nationalist identity.

Both are not sustainable.

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: Freeborn

Communism is THE end game goal socialists.
Just as fascism is the end game goal for nationalists.

One requires a crystal castle in the sky mind set.
The other requires a strict program to follow to ensure a nationalist identity.

Both are not sustainable.

So why are Socialist Nations so Nationalistic if they're not Fascist? 🤔

a reply to: xuenchen

Propoganda maybe?

You need to shill the ideology somehow, like, "look at us. Go workers of (insert nation state)!".

a reply to: strongfp

The end goal of communism is in fact a stateless society whereby the workers and proletariat collectively run and manage things. Its actually quite anarchistic in nature....and theoretical anarchy has similarities to Libertarianism.
The problem is that the interim period where the state owns and manages the economy etc for the workers and proletariat quite predictably becomes a permanent fixture.

I think more people genuinely understand what Fascism and Nazism is. Sadly the new revisionists incorrectly label it as Socialist in an effort to dissociate away from them and to discredit 'the left'.
All despite the undeniable FACT that the three biggest proponents of Fascism - Hitler, Mussolini and Franco - never hid the fact that they hated Communism/Socialism and from the very outset sought to intimidate, persecute, imprison and kill those who supported those ideologies.

Marx, Engels and probably Lenin would be appalled at what gets called Communism etc nowadays.
Hitler and his mob would be truly furious and apoplectic if they'd ever been called socialists and leftists.

a reply to: Freeborn

I dont think that hating communism is really a factor that comes into play. Musolini also hated the right; he supported the WW1 because he saw it as an opportunity to get rid of the monarchy which he saw as suppressing socialism.

Also that ignores the fact Lenin and Musolini were pen pals, and Musolini started as a socialist. The fact that Musolini first was a socialist and Marxist shows its easy to start with socialism and end with fascism. And probably the other way around works just as easy.

Another fact to support that seems that Hitler himself said he wanted to turn socialism into something that is closer to what socialism ought to be;

"“Socialism,’ he retorted, putting down his cup of tea, pugnaciously, “is the science of dealing with the common weal. Communism is not Socialism. Marxism is not Socialism. The Marxians have stolen the term and confused its meaning. I shall take Socialism away from the Socialists.” -Adolf Hitler

Those 2 facts about Musolini and Hitler wouldnt be true if they were on the other end of the political spectrum.

Anyway the political spectrum can have different parameters and there is not one spectrum. It depends which parameters you take. I read its not a linear spectrum but 2 dimensional, so 2 axis. But even then you could change the parameters quite easily. Economical liberty as 1 axis, collectivism vs individualist could be an axis, or autoritarian vs liberal. But also conservatism and progressivism. All of them can easily be used to change the position of fascism or the Nazis.

Another problem about these ideologies and which parameters to use is theyre all processes with different states in which some parameters apply in most states but in the ideal end state; they dont. For example communism strived for a stateless world where everyone is equal but to do so they created huge bureaucracies with state intervention and control and no regime ever came close to that ideal state.