Russia blames the West for a change in its Nuclear Doctrine

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

Just like most other predators or bullies.

They like to blame the victim.

Let those who bang on about the CIA, Nuland, etc watch this video about the Maidan Revolution.

Basically, Russian brutal repression of legitimate protests.

m.youtube.com...

If Mexico became a Russian puppet state and launched attacks into the US…

… the response would be nuclear.

originally posted by: pianopraze
If Mexico became a Russian puppet state and launched attacks into the US…

… the response would be nuclear.

Well probably not as the US military would roll over the mexican army in about 3 days.

Also not much of an analogy is Ukraine isn't a puppet of the US and it was Russia that launched the attacks.

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

I respect Putin, but how much land does he need?

SRIRISLY?

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: MrGashler

Do you think if a sovereign country wants to join NATO freely and of it's own accord we should deny them because it might upset Putin?

Shouldn't we allow members into our NATO club if they have something strategic to offer?

Or is the goal to have every country in the world join NATO eventually?

a reply to: Dandandat3
A lot of people probably don't realize this, but the Showtime inteviews of Putin by Oliver Stone revealed some interesting things like this:

Putin Says He Discussed Russia's Possible NATO Membership With Bill Clinton

Speaking with Stone in what appears to be Putin's presidential plane, the Russian leader recalls one of his final meetings with Clinton, who left office in January 2001.

"During the meeting I said, 'We would consider an option that Russia might join NATO,'" Putin says. "Clinton answered, 'I have no objection.' But the entire U.S. delegation got very nervous."

I think a sticking point that could be encountered for some countries joining NATO is that NATO admission requires unanimous consent of all existing NATO members. Turkey had some objections to Sweden and Finland joining NATO for example, but those were resolved. In January 2001, not only Clinton, but also other countries and even Russian citizens had high hopes for the future of Russia to finally put its bloody and imperialistic past behind it, but any plan for Russia to join NATO probably would have been a 25 year plan, since all former soviet states had a lot of work to do to meet NATO standards for membership.

Corruption is even a barrier to Ukraine's membership of NATO:
Ukraine to be told it is too corrupt to join Nato

At least Ukraine is making efforts to clean up its corruption, but Putin actually embraced corruption as long as he gets his cut, and of course Putin's aggressive stance toward his neighbors means Russia would not be welcome in NATO as long as Putin is in charge.

originally posted by: Mantiss2021

originally posted by: BedevereTheWise
More Russian red lines been crossed.

Fortunately they draw them in erasable ink.

Fortunately the ink they draw those lines in runs, like a Russian conscript, when challenged.

The story of "the boy who cried wolf" is supposed to teach children about the effects of raising false alarms. In the story, the people who come when the boy cries eventually realize the boy's alarms were false, so they stopped coming to rescue him from the wolf that wasn't actually there.

Putin is like the boy in that story who keeps raising false alarms if certain "red lines" are crossed, but it seems some politicians are not as smart as the people in the story because, some keep falling for Putin's false alarms even after so many of Putin's red lines have been crossed without incident.

a reply to: MrGashler

All the Russians has to do is to stop what they are doing and stay at home minding their own business. Isn't that the best, fastest, and simplest solution?

Same could be said for Usa, UK, EU 🤷🏽‍♂️

a reply to: CosmicFocus

a reply to: Dalamax

Same could be said for Usa, UK, EU

But the USA/UK/EU have not invaded Ukraine or have any intention of doing so.

So in this instance the fact remains that by far the easiest solution is for Russia to call an immediate ceasefire and begin a withdrawal of its troops to the previous internationally recognised borders and then begin discussions about future relations etc.

How many 'lines in the sand' can Russia re-draw?
I've lost count how many times Putin, Medvedev, and Lavrov have threaten Nuclear War and not to cross their constant changing 'red lines'.
The Kremlin and its sympathizers blame everyone else for the war in Ukraine but believe invading a neighbour and occupying their land isn't the problem?
Putin has caused a massive shift towards NATO by European countries that have valued their stance of neutrality to a point even Switzerland is now having second thoughts.

www.politico.eu...

Putin, cash and guns prompt ‘explosive’ rethink of Swiss neutrality
After 500 years of non-alliance, a bombshell report recommends closer cooperation with the EU and NATO.
Switzerland isn’t keen on getting involved in wars but likes making money.

The clash between those values — plus worries that Russian President Vladimir Putin poses a risk to the whole of Europe — is prompting the country to rethink its defense stance.

The weekly threats of Nuclear annihilation now have no value when spoken by the Kremlin, even our own Russian members have turned the threat into a joke. It's become almost laughable.
www.financial-world.org...

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, responding to a question about the potential delivery of long-range U.S. missiles to Ukraine, warned the United States on Wednesday not to play with Russia's "red lines." Lavrov stated that the U.S.

is losing sight of the mutual deterrence that formed the basis of the security balance between Moscow and Washington since the Cold War, and that this is dangerous. He commented on a Reuters report that the U.S. is close to an agreement to supply Ukraine with JASSM long-range cruise missiles, which could reach deep into Russia—a request made by Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky.

"I wouldn’t be surprised by anything—the Americans have already crossed the threshold they set for themselves. They’re being encouraged, and Zelensky, of course, sees this and uses it," Lavrov said. "But they should understand—they are playing with our red lines here.

Nah.

By far the easiest solution is to let regional disputes be resolved regionally, instead of sticking your nose where it doesn’t belong 🤙

Surely the foreign endeavours in the middle east and the subsequent withdrawal haven’t been forgotten already?

a reply to: Freeborn

a reply to: Dalamax

When the ""regional dispute"" as you put it.

Equates to the invasion of a sovereign nation by the likes of Putin and his scum invaders, its somewhat of a different matter.

See if people such as Mad Vlad are given an inch they are apt to take the mile.

And Ukraine would only be the beginning most likely with Mongolia being next.

Or some other poor weak kid nation on the block russia thinks they can bully into submission.

Ukraine deserves NATO support because it's in their best interest to provide such by my guess.

Or do you imagine the West should simply have allowed Nazi Germany to perpetrate the likes of Operation Barbarossa unimpeded?

originally posted by: Dalamax
Nah.

By far the easiest solution is to let regional disputes be resolved regionally, instead of sticking your nose where it doesn’t belong 🤙

Surely the foreign endeavours in the middle east and the subsequent withdrawal haven’t been forgotten already?

a reply to: Freeborn

Kind of like
"quarrel in a faraway land between people of which we know nothing"

That usually works out well...

a reply to: andy06shake

That's the thing.

Putin didn't think the West would back Ukraine.

If we hadn't, he'd take it as a green light for more "Special Military Operations".

a reply to: Dalamax

By far the easiest solution is to let regional disputes be resolved regionally, instead of sticking your nose where it doesn’t belong 🤙

Yeah, because that would've worked really well in 1918 and 1939. Just let them get on with it......

Is Ukraine a nato country?

Then don’t flare up a regional dispute into an international one.

Easy peasy

a reply to: andy06shake

originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: Dalamax

By far the easiest solution is to let regional disputes be resolved regionally, instead of sticking your nose where it doesn’t belong 🤙

Yeah, because that would've worked really well in 1918 and 1939. Just let them get on with it......

I said the easiest solution 🤷🏽‍♂️ Your looking for 21st century solutions in 20th century conflicts.

I’m glad to hear it usually works out well.

a reply to: BedevereTheWise

a reply to: Dalamax

Ukraine however is in Europe, and now bordering, connected to, or very near, various other NATO nations.

And if it was ""easy peasy"" as you put it the situation would have been resolved by now.

I wonder what you would say if China decided to invade Australia and the likes of the USA/UK refused to help or lend you aid?

I also notion you seem to have chosen to disregard the question you were posed.

Let's try again, shall we?

do you imagine the West should simply have allowed Nazi Germany to perpetrate the likes of Operation Barbarossa unimpeded?

Because if Russia deserved our aid then so do the Ukrainians considering Mad Vlad is attempting to perpetrate Operation Barbariosa in reverse.