A Ray of Humanity in a Dark Place

Hold on a minute, I though Mexico was a poor country, who is paying these women for the food etc.
As for Shoshana, America is the only country where people feel entitled to come illegally????? They have been coming to European countries for decades bringing disease and troubles that the US is only just experiencing.

a reply to: Kallipygywiggy

Immigration is always good for a nation, but when you have over 14m illegals crossing the border in 4 years, is no longer immigration is and invasion.

These will deplete any prosperous nation's resources, especially when US have its fair share of poverty and even hunger, yep in a nation like the US hunger is still a problem within its poor and needy, 37.9 million people in the US are under the poverty level.

In order for some needy and poor to have free stuff, somebody else have to work their butt off to pay taxes for it, SS, medicare, medicaid and welfare is not free for those that pay taxes.

Plain and simple.

We are getting political dissidents, criminals, crazy people, and those that have no other hope.

Its been that way since castro figured out he could dump everyone he found undesirable onto a raft and we would be dumb enough to take them all in no questions asked.

a reply to: crayzeed

They have been coming to European countries for decades bringing disease and troubles that the US is only just experiencing.

They’ve been coming to America in large quantities for decades going back to the 70’s. Not quite the amount this administration has let in but it’s been issue for decades here too. Democrats seem to think it’s a good thing to allow up to 10-15k per day.

originally posted by: berbofthegreen
They are criminals because they are here illegally. That is all there is to this. Nothing more. At best, your toxic altruism and that of the person you are lauding are on display.

All of these people would be wise to return to where they came from. It will cause them less problems in the long run.

Can you show authentic papers to prove you are there legally?

Perhaps if you can't, you should also return to where your people came from, for the convenience?

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: berbofthegreen
They are criminals because they are here illegally. That is all there is to this. Nothing more. At best, your toxic altruism and that of the person you are lauding are on display.

All of these people would be wise to return to where they came from. It will cause them less problems in the long run.

Can you show authentic papers to prove you are there legally?

Perhaps if you can't, you should also return to where your people came from, for the convenience?

Dunno how it is on your island, but pretty much every single American citizen has a birth certificate.

A Social Security number as well.

So it isn't really that hard to check.

Those that can't should be shown the door.

Easy Peasy.

originally posted by: Lumenari

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: berbofthegreen
They are criminals because they are here illegally. That is all there is to this. Nothing more. At best, your toxic altruism and that of the person you are lauding are on display.

All of these people would be wise to return to where they came from. It will cause them less problems in the long run.

Can you show authentic papers to prove you are there legally?

Perhaps if you can't, you should also return to where your people came from, for the convenience?

Dunno how it is on your island, but pretty much every single American citizen has a birth certificate.

From Donny T himself on Truth Social, May 30: "Under Biden’s current policies, even though these millions of illegal border crossers have entered the country unlawfully, all of their future children will become automatic U.S. citizens. Can you imagine? They’ll be eligible for welfare, taxpayer-funded health care, the right to vote, chain migration and countless other government benefits, many of which will also profit the illegal alien parents. This policy is a reward for breaking the laws of the United States and it is obviously a magnet helping draw the flood of illegals across our borders".

So, It doesn't matter if you were born there and wave around a birth certificate. It means nothing.

He's suggesting something that infringes against 14th Amendment birthright citizenship, too.

A Social Security number as well.

Non-citizens who are authorized to work by the Department of Homeland Security get social security numbers. It's done so they can pay taxes, etc.

Also, The Social Security Administration can issue numbers to temporary residents, too, even if the applicant isn't registering for employment. Nor are SSN's unique. There have been instances of the same SSN being issued to different people.

So it isn't really that hard to check.

Those that can't should be shown the door.

Easy Peasy.

In theory.

a reply to: chr0naut

That was a pretty long-worded post with some Trump in there to not say anything about what I actually posted.

People who are born in the US are US citizens.

Thus the anchor baby problem that needs to be cleared up.

Because it is exploiting a loophole in our laws... after all, the people who wrote the laws for immigration here would never have thought that we as a country would entertain the idea of not only allowing illegal immigration, but giving them government aid.

Which is what he was discussing.

Social Security numbers here are issued at the birth of a child (well, mine were anyways).

So your premise is fundamentally flawed, as it always is when you have to throw Trump into it.

You said...

Can you show authentic papers to prove you are there legally?

Yes, American citizens can.

Perhaps if you can't, you should also return to where your people came from, for the convenience?

That was a dig at White people for you.... the colonists you despise so much despite you being one as well. You didn't think that one through... it is obviously also a dig at everyone who has ever immigrated here, including Blacks.

You are also denigrating every sinlge immigrant who came here legally.

As an actual Native American, I found that funny too... but not in the way that you think.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: berbofthegreen
They are criminals because they are here illegally. That is all there is to this. Nothing more. At best, your toxic altruism and that of the person you are lauding are on display.

All of these people would be wise to return to where they came from. It will cause them less problems in the long run.

Can you show authentic papers to prove you are there legally?

Perhaps if you can't, you should also return to where your people came from, for the convenience?

Um, just for you I will build a time machine and go to every square inch of this earth where one population subdued another one and I will say to them, "hey stop it, that's not nice! AND Chrononaut doesn't like it!" I am sure they will understand and turn back.

originally posted by: Lumenari
a reply to: chr0naut

That was a pretty long-worded post with some Trump in there to not say anything about what I actually posted.

People who are born in the US are US citizens.

Thus the anchor baby problem that needs to be cleared up.

Which is what he was discussing.

Social Security numbers here are issued at the birth of a child (well, mine were anyways).

So your premise is fundamentally flawed, as it always is when you have to throw Trump into it.

You said...

Can you show authentic papers to prove you are there legally?

Yes, American citizens can.

Perhaps if you can't, you should also return to where your people came from, for the convenience?

That was a dig at White people for you.... the colonists you despise so much despite you being one as well. You didn't think that one through... it is obviously also a dig at everyone who has ever immigrated here, including Blacks.

As an actual Native American, I found that funny too... but not in the way that you think.

The point of my post was that the process of identification of who is, and who isn't a US citizen isn't entirely clean and simple.

Additionally, as a native American, I am sure you are aware that the Southern border bisects tribal lands of 29 indigenous tribes. Indigenous conflicts on the Mexico–United States barrier.

Are they US citizens or Mexicans? Should they be 'deported' if they end up on the wrong side of the line?

originally posted by: berbofthegreen

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: berbofthegreen
They are criminals because they are here illegally. That is all there is to this. Nothing more. At best, your toxic altruism and that of the person you are lauding are on display.

All of these people would be wise to return to where they came from. It will cause them less problems in the long run.

Can you show authentic papers to prove you are there legally?

Perhaps if you can't, you should also return to where your people came from, for the convenience?

Um, just for you I will build a time machine and go to every square inch of this earth where one population subdued another one and I will say to them, "hey stop it, that's not nice! AND Chrononaut doesn't like it!" I am sure they will understand and turn back.

I'm actually more concerned with the legitimization of regimes trying to put 'national rights', or not, in a box, and also with the numbers of people that will be harmed by officious 'enforcers' trying to tick all the check-boxes on the form.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: berbofthegreen

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: berbofthegreen
They are criminals because they are here illegally. That is all there is to this. Nothing more. At best, your toxic altruism and that of the person you are lauding are on display.

All of these people would be wise to return to where they came from. It will cause them less problems in the long run.

Can you show authentic papers to prove you are there legally?

Perhaps if you can't, you should also return to where your people came from, for the convenience?

Um, just for you I will build a time machine and go to every square inch of this earth where one population subdued another one and I will say to them, "hey stop it, that's not nice! AND Chrononaut doesn't like it!" I am sure they will understand and turn back.

I'm actually more concerned with the legitimization of regimes trying to put 'national rights', or not, in a box, and also with the numbers of people that will be harmed by officious 'enforcers' trying to tick all the check-boxes on the form.

If that is your actual concern then you might go with that first. Open borders is a disaster and you know it is. So, I really cannot trust anything you might say. I suppose you think all the benefits they are getting are just growing on trees. Regardless, I will laugh deeply on the inside knowing how much your life is going to change for the worse due to your altruism.

originally posted by: berbofthegreen

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: berbofthegreen

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: berbofthegreen
They are criminals because they are here illegally. That is all there is to this. Nothing more. At best, your toxic altruism and that of the person you are lauding are on display.

All of these people would be wise to return to where they came from. It will cause them less problems in the long run.

Can you show authentic papers to prove you are there legally?

Perhaps if you can't, you should also return to where your people came from, for the convenience?

Um, just for you I will build a time machine and go to every square inch of this earth where one population subdued another one and I will say to them, "hey stop it, that's not nice! AND Chrononaut doesn't like it!" I am sure they will understand and turn back.

I'm actually more concerned with the legitimization of regimes trying to put 'national rights', or not, in a box, and also with the numbers of people that will be harmed by officious 'enforcers' trying to tick all the check-boxes on the form.

If that is your actual concern then you might go with that first. Open borders is a disaster and you know it is. So, I really cannot trust anything you might say. I suppose you think all the benefits they are getting are just growing on trees. Regardless, I will laugh deeply on the inside knowing how much your life is going to change for the worse due to your altruism.

Americans are very 'binary' in how they treat their border crossers.

It's either all, or nothing.

Once I suggested that if people were really good business men, then they would monetize it.

It costs to block the borders. It costs to open them up in a free-for-all.

What if there were a third way that registered and tracked everyone who crossed, and provided aid and assistance to get them all to become hard working, tax paying, law abiding members of the public with civics classes and everything laid on to drive them to becoming full citizens dedicated and pledged to the United States?

Imagine if that went as far as helping recover their money and business from other countries, and move it across to US bank accounts where it could buy US stuff, supporting US businesses, and add to the stability and strength of the US economy?

Nah, its far better to let any potential advantages go to waste and to compound that with the costs of ensuring no-one gets in across 3,145 km of desert.

Let's see, 2 guards per car, every km or so, in three shifts, that's only 18,870 guards. That's $1.7 billion in wages a year, every year (The average border patrol agent salary in the USA is $89,931 per year). Then there's vehicle, and equipment, and facilities costs. Then there's what you do with the ones you keep rounding up. Yeah, I reckon you wouldn't get change from $5 billion a year. And that would all be a constant economic loss from the economy, it's not like its productive capital!

Oh, and it works hand in hand with the magic (falling down) wall. How much has that cost to date? $21.6 billion so far, according to a DHS internal report. And that seems to have been a lot of money for very little in practice. Not to mention that the government doesn't even own much of the land, that's an additional, and so far un-determined cost (there are more than 90 lawsuits stretching back to 2008 in Texas alone which are still not resolved).

And, no, Mexico wouldn't pay a cent of it.

Figure it out.

a reply to: rickymouse

They are being led to believe that they can come here illegally and work, that there are loopholes in our laws.

They can. There are. Illegal immigration has long been a vital source of manual labour in the US economy. It started generations ago, with American agribusinesses enticing people over the southern border to function as crop-pickers and pesticide-spreaders. Most of these labourers left at the end on their contracts, but many stayed, and founded or expanded Latino communities in the US. Nowadays, of course, migrants come from all over the world, not just Latin America.

Large parts of the construction industry, the domestic-labour market and a vast number of small independent businesses, especially in the ‘informal’ sector, employ or are owned by illegal migrants.

These illegal workers make a huge contribution to the US economy. The aggregate benefit of their presence is well established by research. American citizens would be measurably less well off if they were all somehow sent home.

However, this is not the point of my thread. Whether it profits the US economy to let these people in or not is irrelevant. The point is that they are human beings, and they are suffering. What can you, as a US citizen, do to ease their suffering? Don't you find the story of Las Patronas inspiring? Surely your politics has not deprived you of your humanity?

Still, since you bring it up, here are few statistics about the economic impact of illegal immigration on America. The source is Wikipedia, but you can get the facts and figures on any number of sources.

• In aggregate and over the long term, tax revenues of all types generated by immigrants—both legal and unauthorized—exceed the cost of the services they use.
  
  
• Six million unauthorized immigrants file individual income tax returns each year.
  
  
• For example, in 2006 (these figures take years to compute, so there is always a lag), 1.4 million unauthorized immigrants in Texas added almost $18 billion to the gross state product, and contributed $1.58 billion in state revenue, while costing the state about $1.16 billion in services used.
  
  
• The Social Security Administration estimated that, overall, unauthorized immigrants and their employers paid $13 billion in required social security payroll taxes in 2010.
  
  
• When the wages of lower-skilled workers go down, the rest of America benefits by paying lower prices for things like restaurant meals, agricultural produce and construction.
  
  
• Economists do not tend to find that immigrants cause any sizeable decrease in wages and employment of U.S.-born citizens, and instead may raise wages and lower prices in the aggregate.

There's plenty more where this came from, but I'm not interested in justifying illegal immigration, just in trying to persuade some of you to see the human side of the persecution many of you here demand and endorse.
Perhaps a song will help.

a reply to: ColeYounger2

Didn't you post a thread a couple weeks ago, where you said;

"I can safely say that we all know the Trump ‘assassination attempt’ was nothing but a false flag operation, designed by shadowy figures within or allied to the MAGA movement, to ensure that the 2024 election will be a lock for their frontman."

Indeed I did. Thank you for paying attention.

That thead is now 47 pages and a few hundred replies long.

a reply to: Kallipygywiggy

If we got our younger generations to work doing things we really need, we would not need illegal aliens doing the jobs we need. Empires through history have fallen because of reliance of basically slave labor done by other countries and immigrants working for way less in their countries. To have a secure country, we need our own people doing things we actually really need. What are we going to do if all of a sudden all the countries and immigrants from other countries stop producing our food and necessary items.

I wonder if we even make toasters in this country let alone refrigerators and freezers we actually need to keep our food in. I understand our government wants all of us citizens totally reliant on them to supply food and make us think they are making our food safe...what a joke...and they want us to believe we cannot live unless we take medicines that they regulate. It is a control tactic, and it has been used for thousands of years...if people read real history their eyes might be opened a bit.

The high cost of food is not because of farmers, and way more money is made off importing food and other stuff than it costs to get the products. The supply chain and comodity market seems to make all the money. This is not a conspiracy, it is the way it is and the way it has been for many generations. They have not even got better at hiding this, people cannot comprehend it properly...we have been programmed to believe in deceit. I have been evaluating this crap happening over a hundred years here in America by reading actual old documents concerning this stuff from history. It will not change and not all of it was bad for society either, it is better than what has been happening lately in my opinion

a reply to: rickymouse

None of that has anything to do with the topic, surely?

The point is, people are suffering and dying. This is about compassion, not who manufacturers your toaster.

originally posted by: Kallipygywiggy
a reply to: rickymouse

None of that has anything to do with the topic, surely?

The point is, people are suffering and dying. This is about compassion, not who manufacturers your toaster.

People are suffering and dying all over the world, always have. It’s not our responsibility to save the world at the expense of the citizens, whom many are also suffering. I was forced onto disability because of a major heart issue, I now have to try and live on 1.1k per month. There’s illegals that get more benefits than I do. They can take their pity party back to their home country and fix their own problems.

They’re not my problem. I guess you’re oblivious as to what’s happening in your own backyard. Have you checked out our homeless situation? We got vets on the streets and getting crap treatment from our government. Until that all gets fixed they can fix their own countries, I have zero sympathy for them, especially when they come here making demands, killing and harming citizens. They can KMA.

a reply to: KrustyKrab

My previous post was not off topic. I repeat here what I said in it:

Illegal immigrants are not to blame for your personal misfortunes. Neither are they to blame for the US homeless problem. And they are, in fact, more law-abiding, on average, than US citizens.

Your resentment is misdirected. The problems you refer to are not caused by illegal immigrants and your hostility towards them is completely unjustified.