The Russian Orthodox Church has put forward an initiative to ban occult and magical services

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originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: twistedpuppy

No. They only burnt witches in Europe. Russia wouldn't do such things like persecuting witches. The OP said so in his other thread. But seems to have been ordered to change his mind?

Not really. Sorcery was a crime punishable by death until Catherine the Great. The persecution was on a smaller scale but still it happened. What's interesting the victims were mostly males:

Russian witch trials

When in Russia......

I seem to recall that the King of England is also the Leader of the Anglican Church cult...I mean religion.

I don't think Mr. Putin is advocating to become the Leader of the Russian Orthodox Church.

From my limited religious understanding, the Christian Church and others, have always campaigned against the supernatural, demons, etc and their beliefs. Probably for a couple of 1000 years.

One seems to go hand in hand with the other.

After all, the Devil/Satan etc etc Is one of God's sons, and manifested in Heaven...a creation of God??

One of his little tricks perhaps....

a reply to: gort69

I seem to recall that the King of England is also the Leader of the Anglican Church cult...I mean religion.

Yes, The King of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is indeed the Leader of The Church of England.
Not sure exactly what that entails as he seems to have very little say or input other than sitting there and nodding his head quite seriously or solemnly at various ceremonial procedures......but then again I'm not CoE and it has absolutely zero affect on me whatsoever so I pay little attention.

I don't think Mr. Putin is advocating to become the Leader of the Russian Orthodox Church.

And neither is King Charles a de facto dictator who seeks to quash all opposition ruthlessly including using the Established Church as a means to control.

One cult doesn't like the other cults? Is this supposed to be news or something. They are always at each other to be the top cult with all the power and donations.

I think that is why we call it war. We Are Right. It doesn't matter who the we is at all.

a reply to: gort69

Satan was a fallen angel.

As far as I'm aware none of the Abrahamic religions considered Satan to be a "son" of God.

a reply to: gort69

"From my limited religious understanding, the Christian Church and others, have always campaigned against the supernatural, demons, etc and their beliefs. Probably for a couple of 1000 years."

But they are not advocating to criminalise anything?

originally posted by: RussianTroll
Recently, the Russian Orthodox Church put forward an initiative to ban sorcerers, witches, Satanists, astrologers, occultists, shamans and other “otherworldly” servants.

Ban from what? Ban them from the church? Don't all Christian churches do that? Ban them from the government and society? What authority does the Russian Orthodox Church have over the government and society? Here in America the churches have NO authority over the government ... the government is the full authority.

a reply to: FlyersFan

"The provision of services of an occult and magical nature should be prohibited by law,”

This Seems to be what is proposed from the OP

Presumably by criminalising such activities?

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

They already tell them how to think.

Is it any wonder they now wish to tell them what spells they can and cannot cast?

The real kicker turning water into wine, calming a storm, walking on water, and raising Lazarus would seem to tick the sorcery box.

Guess it must only be ok if its their team's center forward performing the miracles.

a reply to: RussianTroll

During the scientific-practical conference, the clergyman also spoke about “the need to filter the educational environment from the admixtures of the occult, demonism and other destructive activities.” Father mentioned the master's program in esotericism of the Russian State Humanitarian University (RGGU): “In this program, teachers and students immerse themselves in the world of occult knowledge, study the mystical experience of sorcerers, magicians, spiritualists -obviously in practice, we don’t know, of course - explore demons and etc., are engaged in demonology. Such programs pose a real threat to the religious, spiritual, moral and psychological safety of both students and teachers themselves.” Lukyanov also recalled the attempt by the Institute for Advanced Studies and Retraining of Personnel of the Peoples' Friendship University of Russia (RUDN University) to open an educational program in astrology in 2021.

They just admitted that they don't know (?) did you miss that important detail?

Not only that, they haven't even bothered inquiring whether or not it was in practice or in study.

The stupid it hurts.

Looks like the OP has abandoned his thread so it's unlikely that any of our points/questions will be addressed.

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
Looks like the OP has abandoned his thread so it's unlikely that any of our points/questions will be addressed.

Yeah, he doesn't stick around long...wonder why.

I dont think they will pass this.
to many people in small communities that practice this kind of beliefs.

originally posted by: Scratchpost
I dont think they will pass this.
to many people in small communities that practice this kind of beliefs.

Who will stop them?

Duping people, in selling snake oil for $ to naive folks,
just corrupts the whole of society.
But then . .
it will be only a matter of time, before
the screaming starts,
accusing that banning such is akin to antisemitism.
www.timesofisrael.com...

btw
Jesus healed, cured, fed the hungry even those of his enemies
NOT FOR PROFIT.
(needed to be said, and corrected)
____________________

originally posted by: RussianTroll
Recently, the Russian Orthodox Church put forward an initiative to ban sorcerers, witches, Satanists, astrologers, occultists, shamans and other “otherworldly” servants.

Hello Russian brother, is there a reason why shamans are included under this umbrella? How do you feel about that inclusion? (Didn't you make a topic a while ago about a shaman?)

Would this ban extend to Baikal shamans?

www.rbth.com...

lukomoryefolklore.wordpress.com...

We must remember that the Orthodox Church in its current form is a political institution, so the reason for this initiative against superstition may not be as religious as it appears to be.

I had the impression that shamans have some connection to nature. The only threat they really pose is towards doctors/white coats; from their pov, shamans steal their paying customers.

It's worth noting Nazi Germany ignored their occultists and astrologers for 8 years until Hess took flight to Britain. The reason was that they perceived these sects as harmless (just like German poets and mystics), despite them being a nuissance.

Most occult sects largely consist of pseudo-science, arising from misunderstanding of facts, facts inserted into wrong contexts, and substituting facts with assumptions. If we eliminated most of our assumptions, we would scarcely know any facts about people like Shakespeare, so people feel obliged to compensate for the scarcity of facts by inventing fictions.

In the Russian Primary Chronicle, it's alleged that Vladimir the Great (who recently celebrated his repose, July 15th) was convinced by a sermon given by a Christian scholar. But I maintain that he was a man of science, fascinated by the science behind the properties of water!

Facts lifted out of their religious context: "water was in the beginning the primary element" / "The first transfiguration was accomplished by means of water" / "regeneration should be accomplished by means of water."

Seer Cheiro provided this explanation for the symbol of Aquarius, "One of these meanings—the pouring out of the water—is that of wastefulness or prodigality; the other that of regeneration. The day will come when the Russian waste of blood—the blood she has, and will yet pour out like water—will make 'a new heaven and a new earth.'"

Also, there are a few notable differences in the old Russian retelling about Moses' history, namely: that the Egyptian soothsayers warned Pharoah about a prophecy of a child who would ruin Egypt, that the infant Moses' behaviour also portended this outcome, and that Moses received his knowledge of the universe from angel Gabriel.

a reply to: GogolJoker
Greetings, my American friend. I will try to answer your questions.
Shamans, in my opinion, will not be banned, since they are more of a cultural tradition of the small peoples of Russia. And the culture of small nations is protected, preserved and promoted in every possible way.
The ban will apply to the commercial activities of all occultists, magicians and other charlatans. Let me emphasize, commercial activity. Now in Russia, both the press, the Internet, and television are full of advertisements, articles and programs advertising activities of this kind. There is even a higher educational institution in the Moscow region - the University of Magic, Occultism and Witchcraft. Such activities cause enormous mental and spiritual harm to ordinary people. They are then forced to undergo long-term treatment by psychiatrists. It is against this that this initiative is directed.

Sincerely!

P.S. I had threads with the Shaman. But this is the Russian singer Yaroslav Dronov. Shaman is his stage name, although he is an Orthodox Christian and has many Christian-themed songs.

a reply to: RussianTroll

Greetings comrade,

Thanks, that's very reassuring!

Let me emphasize, commercial activity. Now in Russia, both the press, the Internet, and television are full of advertisements, articles and programs advertising activities of this kind.

Sounds like they are trying to divide up the Russian people's attention!

An American hiker told me, "America now is like a hurricane of screaming propaganda, trying to tell people what they should think, how they should live, what they should want, etc. If it isn't put out by government, it's put out by advertisers, Hollywood entertainment, fringe groups, etc."

Also, your claim seems to check out:

www.themoscowtimes.com...

old.reddit.com...

It's incredible how all this woo-woo stuff that started pouring into Russia during the 90s has been tolerated for over 20 years.

Such activities cause enormous mental and spiritual harm to ordinary people. They are then forced to undergo long-term treatment by psychiatrists. It is against this that this initiative is directed.

Good to know!

I've heard about the detrimental effects of yoga, psychedelics, etc. in the west. Their users experience a high and then they become disillusioned when they're no longer able to maintain their state of mind.

Tom Brown, Jr. wrote that "those who would seek the spiritual paths would only complicate things with useless crutches of the spirit, thus tainting the purity."

P.S. I had overlooked the singer's stage name.

a reply to: GogolJoker

I've heard about the detrimental effects of yoga, psychedelics, etc. in the west. Their users experience a high and then they become disillusioned when they're no longer able to maintain their state of mind.

Freedom means the opportunity to make decisions and take all the consequences. If you can't make decisions for yourself and take the responsibility for them, you're a slave. Even if you believe all the prohibitions are for your own good.

The ban on the occult is a further step to tighten censorship in Russia so that the citizens have an access only to the information approved by their oppressive government.

For the sake of objectivity, I must say that the European Union is going the same way. Its newly elected old führer has just announced stepping up measures sgainst "hate speech and disinformation." Welcome to the Orwellian s**thole of Eurasia.