Interesting perspective from a Navy Seal Sniper

originally posted by: ElitePlebeian2

originally posted by: Justoneman
a reply to: TinfoilTophat

Unless it was an M4, it was not an assault rifle. The AR type without Automatic fire machine gun capability has been labeled by the media and the leftist in Congress as an "assault rifle" when that style gets you killed in battlefield testing.

Why?

Just the facts so there is that.

a reply to: pianopraze

i joined in 1980, during boot camp i qualified as a marksman, only reason i didn't do better is i hurt my knee during a O course run and messed my knee up and when it came time for the rifle range it was hard for me to hold the kneeling and sitting positions.

after boot camp, i qualified as a sharpshooter with the rifle, all 4 years, and when i got to my what we called permanent duty station back then i had to qualify with the 45 and shot expert the last three years.

we shot from 200, 300, and 500 yards sitting, kneeling, standing and prone from the 500 yard, during boot and during re qualifying they taught us to aim center mass. after depending on what kind of training, we also would have training on different points of aim,because sometimes cover won't allow center mass shots, and the magazines the weapons we guarded were in and other cover could also prevent center mass shots. then after if there was time, competition shooting would happen and then they'd relax the rules just a tad and you could aim where you wanted. most went for the head in the silhouette target.

originally posted by: matafuchs
15 seconds between the first and last shot heard. Never should have gotten the first one off.

He was spotted 2 minutes before shooting. People were yelling at cops pointing him out but cops/counter sniper could not see him because slant of roof. They were on opposite side of roof.

He was shot dead very quickly. Rest of shots were law enforcement. Almost all the shots are not his but return fire.

He was shot within 1 second of his first shot.




Here is video of multiple videos all synched by audio of trumps speech. Twitter video

He was not shooting 15 seconds. Agree that roof should have been secured so he never had opportunity to get off first shot.. It was excluded for some reason. That is on secret service lady’s head. Why was this spot excluded:

.556 is good up to 1000 yards, basically zero drop at 135 yards. The only difference compared to something like a sniper 338 lapua is that it is more powerful (250gr compared to 62gr) and so can push out to 2000 yards.

a reply to: marg6043

My mistake, they did not took 42 minutes but seconds, sorry I was in a hurry when I posted that, I apologized.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
.556 is good up to 1000 yards, basically zero drop at 135 yards. The only difference compared to something like a sniper 338 lapua is that it is more powerful (250gr compared to 62gr) and so can push out to 2000 yards.

So an AR clone I can grab for $500 should provide the same grouping as a precision .338 Laupua mag? My experience is lacking by a lot. I have been told that the barrel and action, coupled with optics was the key factors in a precision shot. Who new.

originally posted by: network dude

So an AR clone I can grab for $500 should provide the same grouping as a precision .338 Laupua mag? My experience is lacking by a lot. I have been told that the barrel and action, coupled with optics was the key factors in a precision shot. Who new.

At 100 yards basically the same grouping. 338 would do a ton more damage. .556 less kick by a good amount too, so more rounds would be more accurate. Look at the kick when the sniper shot, one hell of a kick, I bet he was a 338. Now if you were talking 300 yards the .556 will be dropping off and losing power 14 inches of drop. 338 4 inches

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: pianopraze

someone mentioned that ladder. How did the ladder just happen to be right where it was needed? Who put it there? Who thought that a ladder against the best spot to snipe from wasn't a big deal and security could overlook that?

This was a preplanned event and if a 20 year old kid with daddy's AR can outsmart the worlds best security, we are in some deep trouble as a nation. I don't believe they could be that inept. Which leaves one conclusion. I'm not suicidal.

I think there may be something to what you are saying. The shooter went to that location, one of the best places to shoot from and there was a ladder there. Was he actually there before the event and checked it out, or had he previously been there and set it up or had an accomplice that worked there that put it in place. Maybe they were planning on having a guard up there with a sniper rifle but changed their mind...but how would this guy know that?

Seems like this shooting was planned out by that guy, but my question would be....was someone else working with him? Someone with access to the site.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: network dude

So an AR clone I can grab for $500 should provide the same grouping as a precision .338 Laupua mag? My experience is lacking by a lot. I have been told that the barrel and action, coupled with optics was the key factors in a precision shot. Who new.

At 100 yards basically the same grouping. 338 would do a ton more damage. .556 less kick by a good amount too, so more rounds would be more accurate. Look at the kick when the sniper shot, one hell of a kick, I bet he was a 338. Now if you were talking 300 yards the .556 will be dropping off and losing power 14 inches of drop. 338 4 inches

wonder why those precision rifles are so damn expensive. I wish I'd have known this before I bought that .308.

a reply to: rickymouse

on top of all that, the security folks had to ignore the ladder for hours. I can grasp one guy flucking up, but the entire team? Something seems way screwed up.

a reply to: network dude

Conspiracy or cock-up?

If the latter, it was a really, really big one.

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: pianopraze

someone mentioned that ladder. How did the ladder just happen to be right where it was needed? Who put it there? Who thought that a ladder against the best spot to snipe from wasn't a big deal and security could overlook that?

This was a preplanned event and if a 20 year old kid with daddy's AR can outsmart the worlds best security, we are in some deep trouble as a nation. I don't believe they could be that inept. Which leaves one conclusion. I'm not suicidal.

Maybe someone mentioned it but the ladder is a maintenance ladder that was Bolted to the wall.

Here is a picture and I circled the ladder for you

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: rickymouse

on top of all that, the security folks had to ignore the ladder for hours. I can grasp one guy flucking up, but the entire team? Something seems way screwed up.

Naahhh the ladder is either bolted to the wall or it even looks like it's built right into the wall. The ladder is in every picture of the scene even pics from the next day the ladder is there is the same spot it's definitely part of the building.

a reply to: TheMisguidedAngel

If the ladder is fixed mounted, then that answers that aspect of this. And only leaves the part where this kid was able to access the roof and snuggle up to his perch without anyone being curious enough about what he was doing to stop him. But thanks for answering that part.

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: rickymouse

on top of all that, the security folks had to ignore the ladder for hours. I can grasp one guy flucking up, but the entire team? Something seems way screwed up.

I think the security team actually set up that ladder in case they wanted to put a sniper guard in that location. They come and get stuff set up in advance.

The thing is was that ladder going up there known by the shooter before he got there, or was it just found when he got there. That to me would be the only conspiracy...and we will never know because he is now dead and if someone else was involved, they surely are not going to tell us. He could have just stopped by and scouted it before he got the gun from his vehicle.

Funny nobody noticed him walking around outside there with a gun. Maybe he actually was hiding in a building and had set the ladder up the day before too.

a reply to: TheMisguidedAngel

Hmmm. a rifle could have been hidden in those trees the day before which would have made it easier because he would not be seen carrying it by anyone.
a person might duck behind a tree to take a whiz and most people would just look the other way.

So, several comments to various posts. I'll try to separate them by topic

LADDER - The ladder may well be affixed to the structure, as it does appear in numerous pictures. However, the ladder is not installed per Code or anywhere even close. This could mean nothing (i.e. building owner slapped up some non-Code access ladder). However...regardless, the ladder should have been:

1.) Removed if no SS/LEO were going to be using it, OR...
2.) It should have been guarded

This is especially true if the location was to be used as a "Rally Point" for SS/LEO's. It should have been identified as easy access to an elevated position for a sniper and secured accordingly. I have worked in association with prep for presidents as well as nominee candidates. The SS leaves nothing to chance (or at least didn't when we worked with them). Hell, we were welding manhole covers shut for a mile in every direction from anywhere AF1 was going to go. Every rooftop was covered six ways from Sunday. It was no joke! No matter how you slice it, the ladder being available to the shooter, in any capacity, is a major security lapse. Major.

SEAL VIDEO - I have no reason to doubt the person in the X video in the OP is in fact a real US Navy SEAL. However, I was a little disappointed he emphatically claimed the firearm was an "M-16". It was nothing of the sort. At very best, the firearm was a sporting grade semi-automatic AR-15. The M-16 has fully automatic capability and is not available to the general public without tax stamps, an FFL license and a whole lot of money (like $50k-$80k). Plus, the firearm would have to have been manufactured before 1986 (no matter what). No way would Daddy let junior take such a firearm out of the house...even if he did have an M-16 which, he did not. You can tell by the shots fired, they were fired from a semi-automatic rifle. The M-16 has (3) select-fire settings "Semi", "Burst", and "Auto" (meaning fully automatic fire).

SS REACTION TIME - I obviously wasn't there, and I can't see what the Counter-Sniper teams saw in those moments, but it's pretty clear to me that people (minimally the public) were aware of a person on the building, and the person having a rifle up to two minutes before the shooting. If there was any question as to the person's identity (maybe they were confused with a counter-sniper team member...giving the benefit of the doubt), minimally they should have secured Trump and paused for a moment while they figured things out. Regardless of who the SS had asked to assist (i.e. local LEO's), the SS should have absolutely known who was on which rooftop and whether they were authorized or not. This should NOT have taken 2 minutes (this should have taken seconds). If there was any doubt, cover Trump immediately. Look stupid for being overly cautious, but don't let people get shot!

EXCLUSION ZONE - I'm sure there is some explanation, but it is very unclear why there is a pie shaped slice removed from the protection area (shown a few posts above). In particular, it is notable that the building within this pie shaped exclusion from the secured zone also just happens to be where the shooter was. So, two questions here:

1.) Why was this zone excluded from the secured area, AND...
2.) How did the shooter know this??

I cannot see any geographical reason why such a pie shaped exclusion zone would be applicable.

No conspiracy theory here, no deep state conclusions...only what appears to be MAJOR lapses in security. Major.

originally posted by: network dude

wonder why those precision rifles are so damn expensive. I wish I'd have known this before I bought that .308.

308 is no joke, none of them are. 338 is just too expensive, it's like 4,000 to 6,000 for the gun and 6.50 a round...lol I have .556 and 300 BK, that is enough for me.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: network dude

So an AR clone I can grab for $500 should provide the same grouping as a precision .338 Laupua mag? My experience is lacking by a lot. I have been told that the barrel and action, coupled with optics was the key factors in a precision shot. Who new.

At 100 yards basically the same grouping. 338 would do a ton more damage. .556 less kick by a good amount too, so more rounds would be more accurate. Look at the kick when the sniper shot, one hell of a kick, I bet he was a 338. Now if you were talking 300 yards the .556 will be dropping off and losing power 14 inches of drop. 338 4 inches

wonder why those precision rifles are so damn expensive. I wish I'd have known this before I bought that .308.

The .308 cartridge is a fine cartridge, good out to 1000+ yards. The .308 Winchester was used by many law enforcement and military snipers for many years. In fact, the M1A which is used in the Camp Perry championships is a .308. The heavy barreled M1A Loaded Grand Match edition is a World Class rifle.

Unless you're shooting all the time, or shooting out beyond 1,500 meters, you don't need a .338 Lapua. That's an absolute HAMMER. The recoil energy of the .338 is over 2x that of the .308. (17ft/lbs vs. 37ft/lbs). I used to have a .338 Win Mag, and even that was a handful; the .338 Lapua eclipses that rifle by a good bit.

originally posted by: rickymouse
a reply to: TheMisguidedAngel

Hmmm. a rifle could have been hidden in those trees the day before which would have made it easier because he would not be seen carrying it by anyone.
a person might duck behind a tree to take a whiz and most people would just look the other way.

Yup for sure could have had the gun hidden in the trees would have been the smart things to do and if you noticed some 20 year old kid whose 140 pounds, you probably wouldn't think twice if u seen him go into trees thinking hes taking a leak because let's face it this shooter didn't look like an assassin or a danger to anybody.

Of course everybody knows an assassin or a terrorist or a killer could be anybody but this guy literally looked like he couldn't hurt a fly and even though we know we shouldn't think this way our minds still do.You see this guy could into the treesbyou probably don't think much, you see a middle Eastern man ypu probably gonna be suspicious, you see a white guy with tattoos, long hair and muscles you will be suspicious, you see someone wearing a disguise or a mask you're suspicious.

Our brains are just wired in a way that this guy doesn't come across as an assassin or someone to be scared of




The ladder though is attached to the building.

Butler, Penn is A small town/city