why ukraine should not be innocent

why ukraine should not be innocent

a reply to: joy36k

Ukraine has been a deep state cesspool for some time now. Labs developing bio weapons along with the "children" of Pelosi, Romney and Biden siphoning money ostensibly doing "business" in Ukraine. Zelensky is currently leading Ukraine as an unelected tyrant, suspending any elections and democracy in Ukraine yet we are being sold the lie that the support for Ukraine is in the name of saving democracy. The hundreds of billions of dollars has been unaccounted for no real bookkeeping or auditing going on. Our populace got into a place where we are lied and tricked by the msm and our politicians. Americans and more broadly the world have been sucked into a massive psyop, a false reality that has been created and we are all struggling to parse the mis and disinformation to make sense of it all. These are truly troubling times, all of the false narratives and psychological warefare is coming to a head.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker

Some would argue Russia has historic claims to this land. To which we could then evaluate Kaliningrad, Manchuria, Kuril Islands along with other territory that wasn’t theirs before WWII.

The problem with Russia is they gave up the land in 1992 as an independent country, and now Putin says my bad?

When will Russia give back the huge chunks of land along the Eastern and SE of the country back to China if we want to play that game?

We also need to understand that Russia killed 10s of millions in Ukraine through starvation, murder, and massive deportation to gulags, so there is little love there for Russia other than Russians who went there to live well after WWII.

Even Crimea claimed the birthplace of the Russian people is all a lie. The USSR removed all the indigenous people there and replaced them with Russians. They then created a fake history of the place and rebuilt it after Greek mythology. It is interesting how a closed country like the USSR had total control where they could make a 2+2=5 reality very easily.

The problem with Russia is they gave up the land in 1992 as an independent country, and now Putin says my bad?

a reply to: Xtrozero

The US has been THE world leader globally. Working within treaties and alliances essentially policing the global scene both economically and in regards to human rights and any strife between nations. Obama let Putin cross a "red" line and take Crimea and the weakness of Biden, visible to the world, signaled to Putin that he could take Ukraine. American leadership is not what it used to be, the world needs a leading nation, I hope and pray the USA steps up and regains its leadership role.

originally posted by: fringeofthefringe

Ukraine has been a deep state cesspool for some time now. Labs developing bio weapons along with the "children" of Pelosi, Romney and Biden siphoning money ostensibly doing "business" in Ukraine. Zelensky is currently leading Ukraine as an unelected tyrant, suspending any elections and democracy in Ukraine yet we are being sold the lie that the support for Ukraine is in the name of saving democracy. The hundreds of billions of dollars has been unaccounted for no real bookkeeping or auditing going on. Our populace got into a place where we are lied and tricked by the msm and our politicians. Americans and more broadly the world have been sucked into a massive psyop, a false reality that has been created and we are all struggling to parse the mis and disinformation to make sense of it all. These are truly troubling times, all of the false narratives and psychological warefare is coming to a head.

Why do people like you go to such lengths in pushing a point on some massive Hyperbolizing of the truth? It really doesn't help your argument even when parts have truths.

Ukraine has/had a lot of corruption- True
We all know there has always been corruption there, just like in Russia, but Russia was well hidden until recently as we see more behind the curtain. Also, what country doesn't have corruption? Ukraine isn't unique in this area.


Zelensky unelected tyrant - false
He was a popular entertainer who got elected and was thrust into a nasty war. He has done really well in his response as a leader no matter what people see as his faults. It is also kind of hard to hold elections with Russia not just at your doorstep but in your house.

The hundreds of billions of dollars has been unaccounted for- False

False for many reasons. They have not received 100s of billions in cash, 95%+ of the support is in the form of supplies and equipment. When the US says we will put 40 billion towards Ukraine it goes there in the form of our equipment, so that 40 billion gets spent in the US and US companies send their equipment to Ukraine. Ukraine is still on the hook to pay back that 40 billion down the road, so we not only invest 40 billion into US companies, but Ukraine will need to pay it back. This is what a proxy war looks like.

originally posted by: fringeofthefringe
Obama let Putin cross a "red" line and take Crimea and the weakness of Biden, visible to the world, signaled to Putin that he could take Ukraine. American leadership is not what it used to be, the world needs a leading nation, I hope and pray the USA steps up and regains its leadership role.

True...

Ukraine is really the EU's problem though. If Russia took Ukraine, it would not matter to the US in any way, but it is a big problem for the EU in many ways. Russia had been taking countries including Crimea without firing a shot. They would just roll in with their big tanks and these areas would just give up against the big bear.

Then the Ukraine failure happened, and the world saw just how much of a paper tiger Russia has become. The level of corruption in Russia has been on a massive level as 10s of billions were diverted to the oligarchs and not into the military programs they were supposed to go to. We also have Putin himself worth about a trillion dollars...

So, Russia invaded, and the world just popped some popcorn and waited for the normal no-shot war as Russia would take back Ukraine. Then Russia's ineptness showed after 3 days when they bogged down with no gas, or water/supplies, and the tiny military of Ukraine was holding them back.

This was when the world went WTF happened to Russia and it opened up an opportunity for a proxy war to bleed Russia dry on many levels and is working quite well. I wonder how many oligarchs has Putin killed these last few years over all this.

The hundreds of billions of dollars has been unaccounted for- False

a reply to: Xtrozero
Hundreds of billions of dollars in liquidable weapons as well as actual money.

Ukraine says corrupt officials stole $40 million meant to buy arms for the war

are you serious, have you been paying attention?

US did not properly track more than $1 billion worth of weapons sent to Ukraine, watchdog report finds

many, many, many more examples if you open your eyes

this is a problem

Kyiv — From cholera to anthrax, Ukraine's Virology Reference Laboratory in Kyiv has housed some of the most infectious diseases known to humankind. Dr. Natalia Vidayko, the lab's chief researcher, led us through a maze of white walls and stainless steel equipment. Researchers in lab coats hovered over petri dishes, each containing genetic samples of diseases sent in for analysis. 

On February 27, three days after President Vladimir Putin launched his invasion of Ukraine, Russian officials claimed one reason they did it was because the U.S. was "filling Ukraine with biolabs, which were — very possibly — used to study methods for destroying the Russian people at the genetic level."

what is this all about

Ukraine oligarch ‘top cash contributor’ to Clinton Foundation prior to Kiev crisis

many sources

Nancy Pelosi's son Paul Pelosi Jr. (who went to Ukraine in 2017) was a board member of Viscoil and executive at its related company NRGLab, which DID ENERGY Business in UKRAINE! And Nancy Pelosi appeared in a promotional video for the company!

I could go on, do some digging

US intel, Romney figure joined board of Ukraine gas company: Burisma

care to comment?

a reply to: Xtrozero

I think I have proven with out a doubt, that Ukraine has been a deepstate cespool for a very long time. Our political elite and deepstate has been enriching themselves and performing bioengineering that would never be allowed in any civilized country. Zelensky is s fraud. Our very own, Gloria Nulan cut bait and got out of town. She is one of the architects of the Ukrainian/deepstate alliance.

Victoria Nuland, third-highest ranking US diplomat and critic of Russia’s war in Ukraine, retiring

there is so much out there to see, imagine what we can't see

a reply to: YouSir

Show me where I said the US is innocent?

Go ahead ill wait, not quite the gotcha you think that was.

also that still doesnt invalidate vlad's fever dream invasion responsibility.

originally posted by: fringeofthefringe

Kyiv — From cholera to anthrax, Ukraine's Virology Reference Laboratory in Kyiv has housed some of the most infectious diseases known to humankind. Dr. Natalia Vidayko, the lab's chief researcher, led us through a maze of white walls and stainless steel equipment. Researchers in lab coats hovered over petri dishes, each containing genetic samples of diseases sent in for analysis. 

Why is this a problem? The US helped update, convert, and secure 20+ labs there after the USSR fell that were older USSR labs. Almost all are level 2 labs that work with animal diseases like anthrax and 100 other animal diseases, level 2 also handles human diseases that do not cause serious or lethal sicknesses via aerosol transmission. A country like France will have 100 labs or more and even a few level 4 labs.

The problem was when Russia called them US bioweapon labs, and even they dropped that early after a couple of weeks. We do not need labs there and it would be a really bad idea as we can see that Russia just invaded.

Nancy Pelosi's son Paul Pelosi Jr. (who went to Ukraine in 2017) was a board member of Viscoil and executive at its related company NRGLab, which DID ENERGY Business in UKRAINE! And Nancy Pelosi appeared in a promotional video for the company!

Not saying they didn't, but they didn't cause the Russian invasion, so we are talking about different events that are not related.

originally posted by: fringeofthefringe
performing bioengineering that would never be allowed in any civilized country.

Like what?

originally posted by: fringeofthefringe
Ukraine oligarch ‘top cash contributor’ to Clinton Foundation prior to Kiev crisis
Nancy Pelosi's son Paul Pelosi Jr. (who went to Ukraine in 2017) was a board member of Viscoil and executive at its related company NRGLab, which DID ENERGY Business in UKRAINE! And Nancy Pelosi appeared in a promotional video for the company!
US intel, Romney figure joined board of Ukraine gas company: Burisma

Not disagreeing, but as I said before there are different events going on that people try and combine into one big one.

Why is this a problem? The US helped update, convert, and secure 20+ labs there after the USSR fell that were older USSR labs.

a reply to: Xtrozero

The US didn't help, they created/retrofitted the labs to do research that would not be permited here in the US. The labs have not reported acurately the work they do, just like the Wuhan lab.

The World Health Organization has advised officials in Ukraine to destroy any high-risk pathogens housed in public health laboratories in order to prevent their release amid the Russian onslaught, according to a report by Reuters.

level 2 bio labs my arse
Our deepstate will do elsewhere when prohibited to do in the US. If it was level 2 why all the secrecy? Victoria Nulan along with the State Department denied the labs existed for some time before admitting then shortly after Victoria Nulan resigned or retired.

Victoria Nuland: Ukraine Has "Biological Research Facilities," Worried Russia May Seize Them

worried Russia may sieze level 2 labs? really?
C'mon man, you have to be able to connect the dots here. This is not a democrat or republican issue nor is it a Trump or Biden issue. I love my country but we are in cahoots with Ukraine who have recieved billions in "aid" before the Russian invasion, they even fired prosecutors when Biden threatened to not give them a billion in "aid" on one trip he made to Ukraine as VP, just for investigating Burisma and his son. "If you don't fire the prosecutor no money". You saw that, right? These things are all related. They impeached Trump for simply asking Zelensky to look into things and find out if any shannanigans are going on. You really have to try too hard to say, your words, Why do people like you go to such lengths in pushing a point on some massive Hyperbolizing of the truth? 
Or
Ukraine is really the EU's problem though.
When the US has developed 20+ secret bio labs doing God knows what and having the children of its highest political figures getting rich from the energy industry. Threatening prosecutors, getting them fired and ruining their careers and impeaching Trump for looking into all this suspicious activity. You can deflect and pretend all day long but you know better, you know what is going on in Ukraine is corruption at the highest level and possibly the development of bio weapons and the US is running the show. I haven't even gotten into the sex and child trafficking because we would be here all day.
I say to you, respectfully, give me a F'n break!

originally posted by: fringeofthefringe

The US didn't help, they created/retrofitted the labs to do research that would not be permited here in the US.

You keep saying that over and over and I ask where is the real proof, and what kind of research are we talking about here.

Our deepstate will do elsewhere when prohibited to do in the US. If it was level 2 why all the secrecy? Victoria Nulan along with the State Department denied the labs existed for some time before admitting then shortly after Victoria Nulan resigned or retired.

You can read the Government document about it all where they spent around 25 million to convert/secure them. No one denied the labs and it was all in the open. What you are talking about is the Russian propaganda that they were bio-weapon labs...kind of a big difference.

C'mon man, you have to be able to connect the dots here. This is not a democrat or republican issue nor is it a Trump or Biden issue. I love my country but we are in cahoots with Ukraine who have recieved billions in "aid" before the Russian invasion, they even fired prosecutors when Biden threatened to not give them a billion in "aid" on one trip he made to Ukraine as VP, just for investigating Burisma and his son. "If you don't fire the prosecutor no money". You saw that, right? These things are all related. They impeached Trump for simply asking Zelensky to look into things and find out if any shannanigans are going on. You really have to try too hard to say, your words, Why do people like you go to such lengths in pushing a point on some massive Hyperbolizing of the truth? 

What does that have anything to do with US bio-weapon labs, or illegal research labs...you are jumping all over the place here. Of course, Biden was using his son for a pay-to-play event, he did it in Ukraine, Russia, and China, among others.

When the US has developed 20+ secret bio labs

They were never secret... and as I said EVERY country needs them for just normal health of the population and livestock. No one in their right mind would use Ukraine to develop bioweapons. The US already has many locations that are actually secure. Russia dropped its narrative as they ended up with zero proof any of the labs were anything more than level 2 labs.

I have been to a few of the places where chemical and bioweapons are worked on, and Ukraine would be an insane idea to use, and like your first point above there is zero proof or evidence of any of it.

Many of you points are true, but you also go off into some deep areas that have zero proof of anything.

Interesting concept, "Biodefence':

thebulletin.org...

a reply to: Xtrozero

And they’re openly making security agreements with Iran, North Korea, and have one with Belarus. The common theme is dictatorial countries.

Kind of odd that a nation who’s supposedly championing against the NWO is forming an alliance of dictatorships.

originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: joy36k

Russia had more of a valid reason to invade Ukraine than the US had for invading Iraq.

There had been agreements for 30 years that NATO would not expand to countries that bordered Russia.

Then in Feb 2022 the VP of the US said that we would make Ukraine a NATO member.

This of course followed the 37 bio-weapons labs the DOD was operating in Ukraine.

And don't forget the US staged a coup in 2014 that installed a US puppet as the Ukrainian President.

The problem is not oil in russia...so it should be in years of analysis

a reply to: joy36k

That's a lot of opinion, no information or facts, and I can't follow any of it.

Doesn't make sense.

That's my only comment.

a reply to: FlyersFan

My thoughts, too.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: fringeofthefringe
performing bioengineering that would never be allowed in any civilized country.

Like what?

Just like they did in Wuhan. Did you not know that we were lied to in regards to the 3rd party funding at Wuhan? You are free to believe the false narritives all you want. It will never be spelled out. The governement and evil doers will never say, "ok, you got me. It was all a lie." We will never be told the truth, we have to pry it out of them and even then the lawyers muddy everything up and stretch it all out for years. I have provided enough data points in my prior replies for you to connect the dots, its up to you.

U.S. halts funding for new risky virus studies, calls for voluntary moratorium

they don't call it risky studies for nothing

Then after lifting the moratorium this..

U.S. scientists brace for tighter scrutiny of potentially risky research

Expert panel recommends stricter reviews of research involving pathogens or toxins that could have “dual use”

Deja vu all over again

originally posted by: fringeofthefringe

Just like they did in Wuhan. Did you not know that we were lied to in regards to the 3rd party funding at Wuhan? You are free to believe the false narritives all you want. It will never be spelled out. The governement and evil doers will never say, "ok, you got me. It was all a lie." We will never be told the truth, we have to pry it out of them and even then the lawyers muddy everything up and stretch it all out for years. I have provided enough data points in my prior replies for you to connect the dots, its up to you.

What does Wuhan have anything to do with Ukraine? You have nothing so you slipped the topic, so let's talk Wuhan now. The first thing was that as a level 4 bio lab Wuhan in Chinese quality was bad...really bad, so let's start there.

COVID came from the lab 100%, we helped fund testing there 100%, and we help fund testing in about every level 4 lab in the world 100%

The original COVID came from the wilds in China, not a live market near the lab, or a Pangolin. There is a crap load of coronaviruses in the world. What they were working with was a coronavirus that materialized in a remote area of China, it killed some people, so it was brought there to develop a path to a vaccine in case the remote virus hit the mainstream. Did the US fund that effort, there is a good chance it did, but the real issue was the lab. The lab leaked it to the wet market and other areas and so we got the pandemic.

Pretty damn simple A to B level stuff. In the end the virus was rather weak anyways, so what is your point?