Faith or Phenomenon?

Simple religious question, what do you need to establish hope?

In those most uncertain of times, what gives you confidence, or even certainty?

Faith or Phenomenon?

God all the way?

Are you Team Norman Vincent Peale? His later incarnation as "The Trash Bag Sweat Lodge Guy"? (Law of Attraction)

Or are you Team Red Pill. The Matrix-esque nihilism kind. 

For myself, I can employ psychodrama when it feels on the range of possibility.  But it's never anything assured. Always something like, "If I employ this mindset, and these actions, this range of outcomes becomes more likely."

Like The Law of Attraction, but you strip it of unreasonable outcomes. Like hope you can play collegiate sports at 5' 2".  You can attract it all you want, psychodramatically project it, and hone great skill, but you'll be too short to have the same opportunity (range of outcome) as an Amazon.

At most positivity and approach puts you in a better position to get what is achievable, which doesn't always include everything you want.

That works for me, what works for you?

a reply to: Degradation33

I don't have much hope for the future with all the talk of civil war, Chinese poison jabs, chemtrails, voodoo curses, and alien envisions and the upcoming economic depression. So I entertain myself with pleasant thoughts, dancing the mambo, alcohol and drugs, to the beat of classic rock, jazz and Blues. I also have a very well paying gig that is so much fun I'd do it for free. SAG/AFTRA.

I forgot to add that I'm deathly afraid of comet impacts. Other than that, it's all good!!! "One day at a TIME"

Thanks for asking...

a reply to: Degradation33

Law of attraction and so called positivity doctrine or whatever seems satanic to me. It seems like it puts you into the ultimate position. Like you are God. But you're not.

I know in my life, factually in my life, everything has happened for a reason. Bad things good things. Its been like final destination kinda but that is okay. Because there is some necessary outcome to what occurs. It has nothing to do with me wishing things into existence or positive affirmations or whatever.

i play the cards i was delt....then if nothing pans out ----- >>>>>>>>>>> there's always Schadenfreude

i play the cards i was delt....then if nothing pans out ----- >>>>>>>>>>> there's always Schadenfreude

see: www.bing.com... EAyBggCEAAYQDIGCAMQABhAMgYIBBAAGEAyBggFEAAYQDIGCAYQABhAMgYIBxAAGEAyBggIEAAYQNIBCTM1NjYwajBqMagCALACAA&FORM=ANNTA1&PC=EDGEDB

originally posted by: Degradation33
Simple religious question, what do you need to establish hope?

I consider myself a religious person.
My religion says I should be full of hope.
But I'm not.
So, not sure what that means.
I always get disappointed when I 'hope'.
And I'm tired of getting disappointed.

This helps me.
You don't have to belong to AA to take advantage of this prayer.

“God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.”

www.pray.com...

a reply to: Degradation33

Explanation: S&F!!!

Facts work 100% of the time without belief being required for them to work, so it's a no-brainer to utilize and use facts MOST of the time ok.

However when the facts damn you, then they become useless, pointless and dangerous!!!

Hence why it's important to ALSO have an iota of FAITH, aka belief, as it is a required thing to do Magick, which is useful when the facts damn you and you need to rely on something else.

Personal Disclosure: Facts and Faith don't mix well as facts destroys faith and together they can be quite explosive and so I strongly suggest compartmentalizing the two sets of things for ones own, and others, safety!

I do NOT believe in Facts at all, I either KNOW a fact or I don't know a fact, belief is not required and this frees me up to believe what ever the hell I want to believe in.

I have found through personal experience in my own reality bubble that I need to rely on faith about 5% of the time in most cases! Your milage may vary ok!

So to summarize ... rely on the facts until they damn you, then rely on 'pure' belief to cover your ass whenever that is required.

The power of prayer: Science proves it works, has positive physiological effects

Note: God doesn't like people using magick at all, but I counter that with Prayer is a form of mind over matter magick and so If you NEED to do magick and you have a good enough reason to do so and you can explain what where when who how and why you used it on Judgement Day than I think God is a reasonable entity and will forgive your trespass!

I repeat Magick is not for everyday Harry Potter use, and it is not about lifting rocks using the force etc. but it can be very useful when properly applied.



P.S. Magick done wrong can blow up in your face and may make things worse which is why I suggest it be used very sparingly ok.

The Rule of Three, also known as the witches’ power of three, is a religious tenet held by some Wiccans, Neo-Pagans and occultists1. It states that whatever energy a person puts out into the world, whether it be positive or negative, will be returned to them threefold21. The Rule of Three is used to create a balance of energy, which is essential for effective spellcasting2. The purpose of the Rule of Three is a cautionary one, to keep people who have just discovered Wicca from thinking they have Magical Super Powers3.

Rule of Three (Wicca)

As for establishing hope one must be trusted first and that requires being tested ... pass the tests and you can be trusted and that builds others hope in your abilities and or in the stories you weave around your reality bubble. The truth and the facts are two different things. Everybody has facts that we all COMMONLY share where as the truth, or ones own truth is far more personal. For example, Gravity exists for all of us, its a FACT!, but I am schizophrenic and my reality and hence truth is very different from others who exist within my reality bubble. My truth is I have met Jesus and he exists, for me, I just dont follow them ok. I have my own Goddess who I worship, called Achlys, and she tells me that I, as her only high priest on the planet, can not convert anybody to worship her, and I must tell this "Go and get your own God, this one is MINE!" LOL!!!

a reply to: Degradation33

what do you need to establish hope?

When going through the worst of it, instead of being a victim of those thoughts I would think about the man Jesus was. His healing hands, compassion and respect from the community he earnt. He did go through a hard time at the end, but the legacy it left changed this world for the better.

shatterthedarkness.net

In those most uncertain of times, what gives you confidence, or even certainty?

Being comfortable in the gray zone helps. Just take thing one step at a time, each case on its own merits, do the right thing and hopefully this tradition continues. If feeling lost, try to find what is really important to set the direction and find that next step.

I shall fear no evil as I walk through the shadow of death. Pick up the amour of god, keep calm and carry on.

a reply to: Degradation33

Lots of mystery, banging on many doors! Prospecting love of love!

originally posted by: Degradation33
Simple religious question, what do you need to establish hope?

It is not a question that is exclusive to religion, it is a question in it's own right.

Hope = The manifestation of Momentum and Potential over Time Catalysied with Feelings to create an Ideal.

I Hope this is a good answer.

originally posted by: StudioNada


i play the cards i was delt....then if nothing pans out ----- >>>>>>>>>>> there's always Schadenfreude

Learn card tricks and Magic and you won't need to depend on another's misfortune for your own satisfaction.

Surrounding yourself with failure is no way to success.

originally posted by: OmegaLogos

Rule of Three (Wicca)

You are a Winner.

It's Triangles all the way down folks.

a reply to: Degradation33

There’s a saying “you should be careful what you wish for, because it might come true”
Hope I think is similar, maybe it is actually for the best that the things we hope for, aren’t happening right now.

Happiness isn’t a thing, or a circumstance, it’s a feeling. It’s just the other side of sorrow, you can’t measure one without the other.

So let it all go. All is well.

In my case, it was phenomenon reinforced faith...



I had some faith.

Then something happened.

Now I cannot unsee what I've witnessed.


And so it is...

Is it a curse or a blessing?

To bear witness to that which cannot be shared?

a reply to: Degradation33

As a Christian, I would have to say it depends on what kind of hope one is looking for.

Hope for the world to be a better place: according to the Bible it says these days would come, and that things will get more and more intense. So, in this regard...I rely on the hope of a God who is in control and for my eternal future being in a good place, hopefully soon, away from evil forever more. I don't have much hope that things will somehow turn around and be less crazy any more.

Personal hope for myself: Although I am a believer in God/Jesus/Heaven/rapture, I still have feelings just the same as non-believers. And I can honestly say that there are days lately where I really struggle to be positive/happy much. I still have hope, but life just seems to feel more lonely than ever for me lately. Can't quite put my finger on why am feeling this way.

As far as intentionality, the Law of Attraction, manifestation of what I want, name it claim it exercises, etc. I believe they are real and possible - but the Bible clearly states that the enemy has the ability to offer/provide worldly goods (for a price of course), so I avoid doing any of these things. What would it profit me to gain the world, but lose my soul.

I have found one thing that always gives me hope, especially if I am at my most down in the dumps. If I go to the store and even one person is friendly, it gives me hope.

At most positivity and approach puts you in a better position to get what is achievable, which doesn't always include everything you want

You are happily existing within the boundaries of your perceived limitations and there is nothing wrong with that. But some of us seek the ultimate truth. Trying to break through the inner boundaries of our being to see what exists beyond. Out of the millions of human sperm cells that swim towards a waiting ovum, only one gets to fertilize it. Out of the millions of humans that seek the ultimate truth. Perhaps only one will achieve that as well. But try we must.

Thanks everyone for the answers. Like them all.

I shouldn't have conveyed its explicitly religious, I feel it's more in a grey area category between the physical and metaphysical.

While i wanted to read everyone's answers, I wrote this partially because I have problems thinking something will fall from the sky, or turn my way through the power of positivity alone. I literally have a problem relying on god or faith alone. Despite being a type of believer.

Like the example of the Serenity Prayer mentioned by DTOM. I love it, but have trouble drawing strength from even an idealized external source. It's beautiful, but I think dwelling mildly on the autism spectrum sorta screws that up for practicle use. The higher power, the very first word, is interchangeable with an internal well of determination to not lose. Even if an indirect cause of as much.

Like "(Internal well of determination to not lose) grant me the serenity..."

And it's because my place for god to exist has to go with both our newtonian and quantum observations, it overthinks itself to less currency value.

If a god exists it has to arise indeterministically in my mind. Accomidate the Z cause, uncertainty.

Like the data set vs the initial range of possibility.

God arises where it seemingly directs that wave collapse to arive at a predetermined or anomalous point. Like going over to a wave form on the two-slit wall, drawing an X on one of the crests, and hoping the points cluster around it when you observe it, or the spots where it clusters on its own while you measure.

Like God is both the initial odds and synchronicity that defies those, and we are limited to observing the outcome, and sometimes reading chaotic trends and placing better bets.

But that's me, and my god needs to accommodate acausal discord.

The day I heard the words 'happiness is a choice' changed my life. I'd never considered it before, so put it to the test.
I would look for things that I could classify as 'happy' events. Some days it was hard; I'b be happy about waking up; having a job (even though I wished for a better one). Happy that I had food and a roof over my head.

I discovered it's true that people are more likely to gravitate toward happy people. The best part is I very, very rarely have a 'bad' day. Some days everything goes wrong, but there are still things to be happy about-if you want to be.

I don't worry about 'wants'. There are things I'd like to have someday and set a goal for working towards them, but they never consume my thoughts. Irealized the old addage 'It's better to want everything you have than have everything you want' was true. A quick look around at different lifestyles was proof enough.

I choose to believe there is a Higher Power because of personal experiences I've had and also I want to believe ny experiences weren't some brain chemical anomoly gone awry. It brings me comfort and hope.

"Things are never so bad they can't get worse and never so good they can't get better" is one of my go-to mantras.

a reply to: Degradation33

Explanation: Star for you!

I shouldn't have conveyed its explicitly religious, I feel it's more in a grey area category between the physical and metaphysical.

It is generally not between them ... it is BOTH of them at the same time ok!

But specifically it is also between them, as that is the God of the Gaps!

Explaining God is this simple ... I use the 4 sentences OR 1 paragraph method to simplify ...

1] God is perfect in totality, not morality!

2] God is all things, aka omnipresent ... because one must start with presence otherwise you have nothing to work with!

3] Being all things God is all knowing ... aka omniscient!

4] Being all things and knowing all things God is all powerful ... aka omnipotent!

I literally have a problem relying on god or faith alone.

That is fine ok. Just don't bitch about the facts that damn you when they damn you eh!

And it's because my place for god to exist has to go with both our newtonian and quantum observations, it overthinks itself to worthlessness.

That is also fine but I suggest that you are missing a piece of the puzzle ok.

You ARE an OBSERVER and hence YOU are collapsing the infinite wave function down to a single crass reality bubble for yourself.

Now if there was ONLY you in existence then that collapse would be perfect and you'd be God.

Since that collapse is NOT perfect it betrays that there are others interfering with that collapse.

Hence one can move beyond solipsism, aka 'Cogito Ergo Sum' philosophy by Rene Descartes where there is only your mind that can be known, and only known by yourself.

Solipsism is the philosophical idea that only one's mind is sure to exist. As an epistemological position, solipsism holds that knowledge of anything outside one's own mind is unsure; the external world and other minds cannot be known and might not exist outside the mind.

Solipsism [wiki]

And thats not a worthless outcome ... for 1] you now know that A] you are not God and B] that there are others in existence!

This can lead one to Nietzsche's Nihilism aka Everything is broken and sux ... boohoo

Or it can lead to Absurdism aka Everything is broken and sux ... LOL!

It is the same either way ... as the Buddha once said "Before enlightenment, chop wood and fetch water ... and after enlightenment, chop wood and fetch water!" ... nothing changes except your point of view upon the subject matter at hand ok.

If a god exists it has to arise indeterministically in my mind. Be the anomaly Z cause.

There are many many gods but there is only one Primeordial Observer God the Creator and they can be known by applying logic ... 1stly I wondered how many other observers there are and just a simple check on google reveals that there are 1 in 4 people who are Roman Catholic on the planet currently and that is the GREATEST mindset of all currently and due to that being a fact they control the collapse of the infinite wave function down to a single crass reality bubble for us all.

This means that via Tulpa's and Egregores aka Mind-Forms, that their God is in charge of 'here', even if that entity never originally existed in the timeline of the total spacetime frame we are currently talking about!

Tulpa [wiki]

Egregore [wiki]

And that entity aka God has provided us with a 'bible' to read and follow ok.

They are a personal God and to contact them is as easy as going into your closet and praying to them privately ... because they are a hidden God.

The Lord's Prayer
5And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. Truly I tell you, they already have their full reward.6But when you pray, go into your inner room, shut your door, and pray to your Father, who is unseen. And your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7And when you pray, do not babble on like pagans, for they think that by their many words they will be heard.…

Matthew 6:6

34 Bible Verses about God Hiding

Like the data set vs the initial range of possibility.

God arises when you direct that wave collapse to arive at a predetermined or anomalous point. Like going over to a wave form on the two-slit wall, drawing an X on one of the crests and hoping the points cluster around it, or the spots where it clusters on its own.

Like God is both the initial odds and synchronicity that defies those, and we are limited to the outcome, and sometimes reading chaotic trends.

Where you focus matters greatly to the outcome you are seeking ok.

It is within you already!

But that's me, amd my god needs to accommodate acausal discord.

Since God is everything and the universe exists, then the universe itself allows, via quantum indeterminancy and uncertainty, acasual discord!

HAIL ERIS! Kallisti aka For the prettiest one!

Apple of Discord

The Apple of Discord (Ancient Greek: μῆλον τῆς Ἔριδος) was a golden apple dropped by Eris, the goddess of strife, at the wedding of Peleus and Thetis in the Greek myth of the Judgement of Paris. It sparked a vanity-fueled dispute among Hera, Athena, and Aphrodite that eventually led to the Trojan War.[1]

In common parlance, the apple of discord is the core, kernel, or crux of an argument, or a small matter that could lead to a bigger dispute.[2

Order of Nine Angles

The Order of Nine Angles (ONA or O9A) is a militant Satanic left-hand path occultist network that originated in the United Kingdom but has since branched out into factions (known as nexions) located in other parts of the world.[24][25][26] Claiming to have been established in the 1960s, it rose to public recognition in the early 1980s, attracting attention for its neo-Nazi ideology and activism. Describing its approach as "Traditional Satanism", it has also been identified as exhibiting Hermetic and modern Pagan elements in its beliefs by academic researchers.[27]

Left-hand path and right-hand path

In Western esotericism, left-hand path and right-hand path are two opposing approaches to magic. Various groups engaged with the occult and ceremonial magic use the terminology to establish a dichotomy, broadly simplified as (malicious) black magic on the left and (benevolent) white magic on the right.[1] Others approach the left/right paths as different kinds of workings, without connotations of good or bad magical actions.[2] Still others treat the paths as fundamental schemes, connected with external divinities on the right, contrasted with self-deification on the left.

The terms have their origins in tantra: the right-hand path (RHP, or dakṣiṇācāra) applied to magical groups that follow specific ethical codes and adopt social convention, while the left-hand path (LHP, or vāmācāra) adopts the opposite attitude, breaking taboos and abandoning set morality. Contemporary occultists such as Peter J. Carroll have stressed that both paths can be followed by a magical practitioner, as essentially they have the same goals.[3]

The godhood self sought by left-hand path followers is represented by the qliphah Thaumiel in the Tree of Knowledge.[4]

Chaos magic

Chaos magic, also spelled chaos magick,[1][2] is a modern tradition of magic.[3] Emerging in England in the 1970s as part of the wider neo-pagan and esotericist subculture,[4] it drew heavily from the occult beliefs of artist Austin Osman Spare, expressed several decades earlier.[3] It has been characterised as an invented religion,[5] with some commentators drawing similarities between the movement and Discordianism.[6][7] Magical organizations within this tradition include the Illuminates of Thanateros and Thee Temple ov Psychick Youth.

The founding figures of chaos magic believed that other occult traditions had become too religious in character.[8] They attempted to strip away the symbolic, ritualistic, theological or otherwise ornamental aspects of these occult traditions, to leave behind a set of basic techniques that they believed to be the basis of magic.[8][9]

Chaos magic teaches that the essence of magic is that perceptions are conditioned by beliefs, and that the world as we perceive it can be changed by deliberately changing those beliefs.[10] Chaos magicians subsequently treat belief as a tool, often creating their own idiosyncratic magical systems and frequently borrowing from other magical traditions, religious movements, popular culture and various strands of philosophy.[11]

Hugh Urban has described chaos magic as a union of traditional occult techniques and applied postmodernism[11] – particularly a postmodernist skepticism concerning the existence or knowability of objective truth.[12] Namely, according to him, chaos magic rejects the existence of absolute truth, and views all occult systems as arbitrary symbol-systems that are only effective because of the belief of the practitioner.[12]