The verdict is in.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: RazorV66

More and more people are jumping aboard the Trump Train after the fake trial verdict yesterday, including smart people with deep pockets.

Musk was already in Trump's pocket. Trump was already in Musk's pocket

I'm not seeing anyone new jumping on the Trump-Train due to this verdict. Just the same old puppets as before.

Whatever you gotta do to make yourself feel better.

But I don’t think denial is one of those things.

originally posted by: MrGashler
a reply to: Sookiechacha

aaaaaaaand you're wrong again. The presumption of innocence has nothing to do with jurors. There's no way to guarantee that any/all jurors presume you innocent until proven guilty. Bias will always exist. The presumption of innocence has to do with how the government/state MUST behave when it comes to court proceedings and how trials function. Presumption of innocence is -literally- why trials happen the way they do. It requires that the government/state prove the guilt of the defendant. Without the presumption of innocence anyone could make any claim against you that they want and you would have to prove that you didn't actually do it. It can be incredibly difficult, potentially nigh impossible to prove a negative.

The fifth amendment is actually what guarantees us the presumption of innocence because the fifth amendment guarantees us due process of law. Due process cannot exist without the presumption of innocence.

The State/government doesn't presume innocence when it arrests, charges, requires bail and prosecutes an individual.

ETA: A reminder as to why this is being argued. Posters have claimed that the following judge's order violated Trump right to be presumed innocent by the jury.

Evidentiary Inferences
In evaluating the evidence, you may consider any fact that is proven and any inference which may be drawn from such fact.
To draw an inference means to infer, find, conclude that a fact exists or does not exist based upon proof of some other fact
or facts.
For example, suppose you go to bed one night when it is not raining and when you wake up in the morning, you look out your window; you do not see rain, but you see that the street and sidewalk are wet, and that people are wearing raincoats and carrying umbrellas. Under those circumstances, it may be reasonable to infer, that is conclude, that it rained during the night. In other words, the fact of it having rained while you were asleep is an inference that might be drawn from the proven facts of the presence of the water on the street and sidewal people in raincoats and carrying umbrellas.
An inference must only be drawn froma proven fact or facts and then only if the inference flows naturally, reasonably, and
logically from the proven fact or facts, not if it is speculative. Therefore, in deciding whether to draw an inference,you must
look at and consider all the facts in thel ight of reason, common sense, andexperience

static01.nyt.com...

originally posted by: RazorV66

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: RazorV66

More and more people are jumping aboard the Trump Train after the fake trial verdict yesterday, including smart people with deep pockets.

Musk was already in Trump's pocket. Trump was already in Musk's pocket

I'm not seeing anyone new jumping on the Trump-Train due to this verdict. Just the same old puppets as before.

Whatever you gotta do to make yourself feel better.

But I don’t think denial is one of those things.

I am not sure it even matters who jumps ship or decides to vote for Trump because of this.
However many votes the Democrats need they will conjure up.
We already know they have the machine in place to rig the election to whatever extent they need to.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: RazorV66

More and more people are jumping aboard the Trump Train after the fake trial verdict yesterday, including smart people with deep pockets.

Musk was already in Trump's pocket. Trump was already in Musk's pocket

I'm not seeing anyone new jumping on the Trump-Train due to this verdict. Just the same old puppets as before.

In case you missed it….
There were so many donors after the verdict was read that they broke the donor website LoL

Flood of traffic crashes Trump's donation website after hush money conviction
www.usatoday.com...

originally posted by: UKTruth
Trump can forget hoping for any justice from the appeals court

Appeals Judges

Not every judge has to be a Dem paid, partisan scumbag like Merchan is.

Sooner or later, Trump has to run into a judge or judges that want to follow the rule of law.

When that happens, Trump wins.

originally posted by: Vermilion

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: RazorV66

More and more people are jumping aboard the Trump Train after the fake trial verdict yesterday, including smart people with deep pockets.

Musk was already in Trump's pocket. Trump was already in Musk's pocket

I'm not seeing anyone new jumping on the Trump-Train due to this verdict. Just the same old puppets as before.

In case you missed it….
There were so many donors after the verdict was read that they broke the donor website LoL

Flood of traffic crashes Trump's donation website after hush money conviction
www.usatoday.com...

$40m over the course of 6 hrs. (including the time down from crashing).

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: RazorV66

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: RazorV66

More and more people are jumping aboard the Trump Train after the fake trial verdict yesterday, including smart people with deep pockets.

Musk was already in Trump's pocket. Trump was already in Musk's pocket

I'm not seeing anyone new jumping on the Trump-Train due to this verdict. Just the same old puppets as before.

Whatever you gotta do to make yourself feel better.

But I don’t think denial is one of those things.

I am not sure it even matters who jumps ship or decides to vote for Trump because of this.
However many votes the Democrats need they will conjure up.
We already know they have the machine in place to rig the election to whatever extent they need to.

I don’t believe the con artists can pull it off this time without a major sleight of hand scam like the pandemic.

It remains to be seen what they try though.

originally posted by: Vermilion

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: RazorV66

More and more people are jumping aboard the Trump Train after the fake trial verdict yesterday, including smart people with deep pockets.

Musk was already in Trump's pocket. Trump was already in Musk's pocket

I'm not seeing anyone new jumping on the Trump-Train due to this verdict. Just the same old puppets as before.

In case you missed it….
There were so many donors after the verdict was read that they broke the donor website LoL

Flood of traffic crashes Trump's donation website after hush money conviction
www.usatoday.com...

Or maybe they crashed from a DDS attack, lol.

At any rate, I don't believe the verdict changed anybody's mind in whether or not they decide to support Trump for president.

originally posted by: RazorV66

originally posted by: UKTruth
Trump can forget hoping for any justice from the appeals court

Appeals Judges

Not every judge has to be a Dem paid, partisan scumbag like Merchan is.

Sooner or later, Trump has to run into a judge or judges that want to follow the rule of law.

When that happens, Trump wins.

After the first appeals court , it will be the NY Supreme Court and then the US Supreme Court. The latter two do not have to even take the case.
The chance of Trump winning an appeal is extremely slim and thus his entire life is now in the hands of Merchan - a man who has been randomly selected now in all 3 of the 3 trump cases. he's only an acting judge and there are 24 others that could have been randomly selected.
For Merchan to get all 3 cases - case against the Trump Org, Trump himself and the Bannon case, the odds were 15,625-1

If he sentences Trump to 5yrs in jail , which is what i expect, then Trump will be in jail all through his Presidency even on the very slim chance he wins in November - which is even less likely than the odds that Merchan was chosen for all Trump cases.

I think the hard truth is that the Republicans have to cut Trump loose and choose another candidate.

Joe Manchin leaves the Democrats after yesterday’s debacle.

West Virginia Sen. Joe Manchin leaves Democratic Party, registers as independent

It’s probably been in motion for a long time for him to leave the Dems.

Even though he didn’t join the Republicans, he was still a senior, respected Dem that has some integrity and is tired of the Dem clown show.

www.foxnews.com...

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: RazorV66

originally posted by: UKTruth
Trump can forget hoping for any justice from the appeals court

Appeals Judges

Not every judge has to be a Dem paid, partisan scumbag like Merchan is.

Sooner or later, Trump has to run into a judge or judges that want to follow the rule of law.

When that happens, Trump wins.

After the first appeals court , it will be the NY Supreme Court and then the US Supreme Court. The latter two do not have to even take the case.
The chance of Trump winning an appeal is extremely slim and thus his entire life is now in the hands of Merchan - a man who has been randomly selected now in all 3 of the 3 trump cases. he's only an acting judge and there are 24 others that could have been randomly selected.
For Merchan to get all 3 cases - case against the Trump Org, Trump himself and the Bannon case, the odds were 15,625-1

If he sentences Trump to 5yrs in jail , which is what i expect, then Trump will be in jail all through his Presidency even on the very slim chance he wins in November - which is even less likely than the odds that Merchan was chosen for all Trump cases.

I think the hard truth is that the Republicans have to cut Trump loose and choose another candidate.

Nobody that’s normal is going to stand for Merchan putting Trump in jail. Nobody.

I believe that would be the shot heard around the world, so to speak.

a reply to: UKTruth

When you’re playing Monopoly, and you catch the banker stealing money…..do you keep playing? Because I don’t. Monopoly is a long game and I’m not going to waste 3 hours playing with a cheater.

Now apply that to the election.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

You'll notice that I never claimed that the state/government must assume you're innocent. You're not paying attention to what is actually being said again. So let's try it one more time.

The
presumption
of
innocence
is
what
requires
the
state
/
government
to
prove
i.e.
provide
evidence
that
you
are
guilty
of
committing
a
specified
crime

I understand the argument that the person was making, but they're incorrect because jurors are not agents of the state and are therefore not required to presume innocence. You're incorrect because you claimed that the presumption of innocence is not a constitutional right. This is incorrect because the presumption of innocence is the basis for due process of law which IS a constitutional right, specifically the 5th amendment. It doesn't have to be enumerated verbatim in the text. You won't find "separation of church and state" in the constitution or the bill of rights but I'll bet money you won't say that it isn't a thing because it's not written verbatim in the text.

originally posted by: RazorV66

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: RazorV66

originally posted by: UKTruth
Trump can forget hoping for any justice from the appeals court

Appeals Judges

Not every judge has to be a Dem paid, partisan scumbag like Merchan is.

Sooner or later, Trump has to run into a judge or judges that want to follow the rule of law.

When that happens, Trump wins.

After the first appeals court , it will be the NY Supreme Court and then the US Supreme Court. The latter two do not have to even take the case.
The chance of Trump winning an appeal is extremely slim and thus his entire life is now in the hands of Merchan - a man who has been randomly selected now in all 3 of the 3 trump cases. he's only an acting judge and there are 24 others that could have been randomly selected.
For Merchan to get all 3 cases - case against the Trump Org, Trump himself and the Bannon case, the odds were 15,625-1

If he sentences Trump to 5yrs in jail , which is what i expect, then Trump will be in jail all through his Presidency even on the very slim chance he wins in November - which is even less likely than the odds that Merchan was chosen for all Trump cases.

I think the hard truth is that the Republicans have to cut Trump loose and choose another candidate.

Nobody that’s normal is going to stand for Merchan putting Trump in jail. Nobody.

I believe that would be the shot heard around the world, so to speak.

The world would be a much better place if you were right, but you are not IMO.
There is nothing that anyone can do about it.
Ask youself WHY the Democrats are so brazen in their corruption.
If you think about it, you land on the only logical answer - that they have the entire system sewn up.
The US citizenry allowed themselves to be jabbed en masse and confined to their homes for months. Put up with not being able to be with dying loved ones.
Once this level of control was successful, the regime in the US knew they had full and complete control.
Nobody is coming to help Trump if and when he is jailed.
Sure, you might get some limited protests but that is about it.
Talk of some people power is a fantasy.

As for Trump he has learned a valuable lesson I am sure.
He did not act to clear out this corruption and he was arrogant enough to think he could get along with these people.
He let Hillary off the hook - now look at him. Where was the Special Counsel to put her in jail that he promised?
He played defence and refused to use the power he had - now look at him.
He's an arrogant fool who surrounded himself with snakes who stroked his ego.
He had his chance to actually make a difference and he failed miserably.

I think what the Democrats have done and are doing is an utter disgrace and has ended the USA as we once knew it, but I have zero sympathy for Trump.
The best course of action is to dump him and put DeSantis or Ramaswamy on the ticket.
Heck, if Trump promised to drop out, the judge would probably give him a slap on the wrist and the other indictments would go away.
That is what he should be doing now - dealing to save what is left of his life and looking after his family.
You can't go up against people the way he has when they have ALL the power.
You have to be smarter and play a much longer game - as the far left have done over years to infiltrate and take over complete control.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: RazorV66

More and more people are jumping aboard the Trump Train after the fake trial verdict yesterday, including smart people with deep pockets.

Musk was already in Trump's pocket. Trump was already in Musk's pocket

I'm not seeing anyone new jumping on the Trump-Train due to this verdict. Just the same old puppets as before.

Actually it’s you and people like you who are on a Trump train. I do believe those believing the opposite of you are for a better and keeping it America. You hate Trump. You stalk him. Trump has taken a leadership role in trying to keep America and make it better. People are agreeing with this concept and follow that idea, not him per say. All you hateful spiteful individuals are the actual ‘passengers’ on a Trump train. Choo- choo. Where it stops, nobody knows. Maybe Hobbs End…

originally posted by: RazorV66

originally posted by: UKTruth
Trump can forget hoping for any justice from the appeals court

Appeals Judges

Not every judge has to be a Dem paid, partisan scumbag like Merchan is.

Sooner or later, Trump has to run into a judge or judges that want to follow the rule of law.

When that happens, Trump wins.

Are you able to share with us any points of law that Judge Merchan failed to follow?
you may want to read up on New York State law before you commit to answering me.

For reference i have been following a group of lawyers that actually respect the law.

You might want to start your education there :

Link to education

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: Threadbarer
a reply to: network dude

Trump and his team were notified of all charges, they were allowed to file and argue pre-trial motions, they took part in jury selection, they were allowed to cross the prosecution's witness and present their own case.

This is the definition of due process. At the end of the day, Trump's lawyers failed. Whether this was due to Trump micromanaging every aspect of the defense or his lawyers just being bad remains to be argued. But I would say it's going to be hard to argue Merchan was biased when he was making objections for the defense because Trump's team wasn't making them on their own.

so no constutional issues at all, the judge and trial were toally above board. Good enough. If that's not the case in appeal. then your legal prowless will be glaringly evident. If it all holds up, you will be a hero.

BTW, can you explain exactly what Trump did wrong please? I just want to know what records he falsified. And as it's in evidence, you should be able to show that.

note to all, this is how you get this DERP to go away. Ask him to explain the crime. Of corse nobody can, due to some mysterious reason, but it's good to know that's their kryptonite.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: Threadbarer
a reply to: network dude

Trump and his team were notified of all charges, they were allowed to file and argue pre-trial motions, they took part in jury selection, they were allowed to cross the prosecution's witness and present their own case.

This is the definition of due process. At the end of the day, Trump's lawyers failed. Whether this was due to Trump micromanaging every aspect of the defense or his lawyers just being bad remains to be argued. But I would say it's going to be hard to argue Merchan was biased when he was making objections for the defense because Trump's team wasn't making them on their own.

so no constutional issues at all, the judge and trial were toally above board. Good enough. If that's not the case in appeal. then your legal prowless will be glaringly evident. If it all holds up, you will be a hero.

BTW, can you explain exactly what Trump did wrong please? I just want to know what records he falsified. And as it's in evidence, you should be able to show that.

note to all, this is how you get this DERP to go away. Ask him to explain the crime. Of corse nobody can, due to some mysterious reason, but it's good to know that's their kryptonite.

No one is going to explain the crime with any credibility
There is no crime and that is the point.
Trump haters love it.
The rest of the people think it's a scandal.
That's it and it doesn't matter.
This was never about a crime so it's pointless pretending that it matters anymore.

What is left is to figure out how to operate within a US that has been conquered by radicals and navigate your way through it or out of it.

So, he's had a right old go at the Judge in breach of the gagging order. He's been warned with jail if he did that again, I believe?

His complete lack of remorse will go against him when it comes to sentencing.

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
So, he's had a right old go at the Judge in breach of the gagging order. He's been warned with jail if he did that again, I believe?

His complete lack of remorse will go against him when it comes to sentencing.

Be happy if you like and salivate about jail time for your anti-christ.
But please spare us the #ty notion that he has to have remorse.
There is absolutely zero to be remorseful about in this case.