What is "Genocide"?

a reply to: network dude

It can be. Or it can be renamed and repackaged as something else but with the same end goal.

a reply to: Justoneman

I wasn't taught to hate the Jews, and in reality, I wasn't taught to understand any of this. I honestly can't say I fully understand what makes someone a "jew". Religion? Location? Birth locatioin? Ideaology? It's abstract to me. So I look at this from a right now, humanitarian aspect. If we have to go back through history and judge each group (not evey sure how to form that group as I just stated) through the lens of their forefathers, who is without sin? Do we then cascade down to who is worse?

All I can look at is HAMAS attacked and killed folks in Israel, and Israel is going after the ones who did it and planned it. Are they going too far? Maybe, but how far would you go if it was your nation attacked?

a reply to: network dude

That is the story and we should stick to it. If nothing else, we stand for any innocent people. I do believe that "standing with Hamas" is a clear sign those people don't give one dime about their neighbors well being if they can't see the pain that the attack, rape and murder event caused. We cannot tolerate terrorism, period. No matter how victimized the terrorists felt by the other sides army. They chose the innocent to attack. Cowards do that. Not real men.

There is no genocide because Israel isn't going after the Palestinians as a group. It's pretty simple.

Palestinians are dying, but the civilian to combatant ratio is actually lower than normal in war.

I challenge anyone to find another "genocide" where that was the case.

If Israel's intent was to commit genocide against the Palestinians, the civilian to combatant ratio would be much higher. That's a common marker of actual genocide.

ETA: Also, the former president of the ICJ gave an interview where she talked about how the media had mischaracterized the ICJ's preliminary ruling on South Africa's claim that Israel is committing genocide. The ICJ did NOT find that the claim is plausible, as Israel haters keep repeating.

The situation in Israel is absolutely a genocide. And biden is sending money and soldiers to help Israel in their task of oppressing the Palestinians. Every democrat voter needs to hear of this.

Why do I believe so? It says so in the democrat playbook.

Page 2 - Never let a crisis go to waste.
Page 7 - Never pass up an opportunity to smear your opponent.
Page 24 - Making up lies to hurt your opponent is fair game.

What goes around, comes around.

a reply to: Hakaiju

Oh my, that isn't supposed to work that way. Only the beneficial parts matter.

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: Hakaiju

Oh my, that isn't supposed to work that way. Only the beneficial parts matter.

Yes indeed. But the definition of a benefit/loss here depends on which side of the aisle you are on.

a reply to: network dude
I think this is where people like you fail to apply one important aspect to the equation.You all seem fixated on the definition of the word more than the application of the word.

Hamas is simply incapable of wiping Israel off the map. They don't poses the weapons, manpower, or command structure. Hamas is more similar to a well armed prison gang than anything.

Israel is however fully capable of wiping Gaza of the map. Which is what they are openly doing and admittedly doing. Isralie officials have said it numerous times during interviews.

So both sides want to genocide the other that's clear. But only one side has the capability to do so.

You see how this works?

It's easy to criticize the suicidal death cult that is Hamas. It should be equally easy to criticize the genocidal death cult that is Israel. Something like 80% of the population of Israel wants Gaza wiped from the map.

If you have no emotional reaction after seeing a Palestinian mother picking up the pieces of her family after Israel dropped a guided bomb on their home you are part of the problem. PERIOD!

Regardless of her affiliation if you can't for a moment see her as a human and put yourself in their shoes then try and imagine what it would be like living that existence. Would you do nothing or would you retaliate?

According to international laws Hamas has more legal justification behind their actions than Israel does behind theirs. That is why arrest warrants are discussed being issued for Israel officials including Netanyahu. That is why we say Israel is committing a genocide.

Eta. I don't hate Jews or Judaism. It was my jewish friends and family who taught me how to hate Zionism and the apartheid state that is Israel.

a reply to: network dude

Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group

Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part

The West bank has been occupied for a long time, 1967 in fact.

It's effectively been under siege since 2002?

I could probably write a small pamphlet on the nuances and ramifications of those two actions but I have my doubts a majority of people would have the attention span for what I'd write... I'd rather just ask you to look into the opinions of serving members of the parliament in charge then look into the opinion of militias within Israel including the many sociopolitical groups.

Israel has arrested 1000s of Palestinians and incarcerated them within Israel which is apparently a big "no no" in terms of human rights violations.

You should probably look into the cause and effect of their siege on the West Bank too, particularly what is and isn't allowed in and how much in volume of what is allowed in.

Those 2 things should be a good start in seeing how Israeli treatment of that particular area of 'Palestine' could (plausibly) qualify as the two methods of genocide I originally quoted in my reply.

Now for the obligatory Hamas comments:

Hamas calls for a form of genocide on the Jewish population (not just Israelis) that can only be considered holocaust, they are a terrorist organisation with a quasi government and a quasi military. Anyone claiming they are those things should write to their respective leaders and urge them to recognise them as such, personal opinion? Wipe em out because I have absolutely no sympathy for scum of the earth who'll treat fellow human beings anywhere near the manner they espouse. They're not exactly humane to the people they claim to represent either so essentially, # them. At the same time I refuse point blank to claim all Palestinians are Hamas of which I'm assuming my reasoning can be easily figured out. Too many kids with parents maimed, dead or in an Israeli jail. Maybe it's the lack of crayons and paper, just being sarcastic in a feeble attempt to lighten the mood with that last comment btw.

However, given the treatment Gazans have had over many years, particularly the last 20 I'd have no suprise if young Gazans are raised to find extremist behaviour appealing, again it's not something that's very hard to work out. The reason I mention this is I'd like people who bothered to read this to understand that Hamas did not form in a vacuum. Like weeds they sprung up due to the consistent failings of the gardeners. Essentially that garden has been consistently neglected and abused, again I have absolutely no sympathy for people willing to commit atrocities but I can understand the psychology behind the apparent want and feeling of necessity to do something.

I kept it relatively short...
I honestly can't be wasting too much of my own thought, time and emotions on groups that seemingly hate each other and would rather them go away or even cease to exist. I find such things repugnant, I bothered though... I'm sure you're a lot smarter than I so I feel as if you may be able to glean from my words why some groups might say what they say or feel what they feel in relation to the entities mentioned. That's enough Middle East bs for me... I am glad you made a thread about the actual definition of genocide and I mentioned yesterday in another thread that Uyghur treatment by China is most definitely genocide also, China isn't rounding them up to be shot but they are doing their best to utterly destroy them as a group. They're targeted because of who they are not for what they've done. You probably know collective punishment is also a big "no no" as well.

I probably won't check back into this thread. They're just SSDD where people are more interested in scoring points and espousing how they feel (reads spewing hate) about others.

originally posted by: JAY1980
a reply to: network dude
I think this is where people like you fail to apply one important aspect to the equation.You all seem fixated on the definition of the word more than the application of the word.

Hamas is simply incapable of wiping Israel off the map. They don't poses the weapons, manpower, or command structure. Hamas is more similar to a well armed prison gang than anything.

Israel is however fully capable of wiping Gaza of the map. Which is what they are openly doing and admittedly doing. Isralie officials have said it numerous times during interviews.

So both sides want to genocide the other that's clear. But only one side has the capability to do so.

You see how this works?

It's easy to criticize the suicidal death cult that is Hamas. It should be equally easy to criticize the genocidal death cult that is Israel. Something like 80% of the population of Israel wants Gaza wiped from the map.

If you have no emotional reaction after seeing a Palestinian mother picking up the pieces of her family after Israel dropped a guided bomb on their home you are part of the problem. PERIOD!

Regardless of her affiliation if you can't for a moment see her as a human and put yourself in their shoes then try and imagine what it would be like living that existence. Would you do nothing or would you retaliate?

According to international laws Hamas has more legal justification behind their actions than Israel does behind theirs. That is why arrest warrants are discussed being issued for Israel officials including Netanyahu. That is why we say Israel is committing a genocide.

Eta. I don't hate Jews or Judaism. It was my jewish friends and family who taught me how to hate Zionism and the apartheid state that is Israel.

OK, that's an argumnet. Now, is HAMAS funded by anyone now? Iran? Oh snap, Iran! Aren't they also funding the Hoothies in Yemen, and Hezboa to the north of Israel? Could those groups funded by Iran have a chance at matching the fighting force of the IDF?

a reply to: network dude

Not without the bomb...

Israel has the technology and the knowhow of it's allies and rightfully so.

I don't underestimate Iran and I know our militaries don't either. Millions dead if they get the bomb including the potential for an actual nuclear holocaust, that's a worst case scenario. Best case scenario is a nuclear arms race.

I think we can all agree we don't want any of that or even a direct confrontation between ME nations. I fear it's inevitable though given the lack of status quo the last couple of years.

a reply to: network dude

Yeah, when Israel parachutes into Gaza, indiscriminately killing elderly women and children just because they're Palestinian, and taking non-combatants hostage, all while usii g their own hospital patients and school children as human shields, I'll accept the "genocide" label. Until then, it seems there's only one guilty party.

a reply to: RAY1990

Wrong, they've been attacked consistently since they moved in, practically the same day. The left is perhaps suggesting we treat our own invaders in a similar manner? I know the left will get behind genital mutilation of children whether it be doctors or terrorists, but I wouldn't be able to bring myself to do it.

a reply to: JAY1980

Fixated on the definition rather than the application? That's a fancy way of saying "I'm about to just make something up," which you then do lol. Fortunately, in reality, the definition DEFINES the application. Otherwise people, like yourself, arbitrarily define it. Genocide doesn't hinge on military capabilities in any way whatsoever lol. I'd say "nice try," but you really just spewed lazy ramblings to fit your bias, trying to discount facts along the way.

a reply to: Boogerpicker

The thread isn't about chopping bits of kids whether it's for psychological reasons or religious.

Jewish people always lived in that area way before Israel was invented.

I probably won't check back into this thread. They're just SSDD where people are more interested in scoring points and espousing how they feel (reads spewing hate) about others.

Quoting myself in hopes of clarity...

a reply to: RAY1990

thank you sincerely for that response. It's based on opinion and fact, and not driven by emotion.

I honestly haven't followed the West Bank issues as the masses haven't formed mobs to chant about it unless it's all the same as the war in Gaza, I'm told it's a different thing, but not knowing, is just that.

I really don't have a dog in this fight, never learned to hate the jews, or the Muslims for that matter. (if that is even the breakdown of this conflict), but as I look at it from a human perspective, I just understand the rage and anger towards HAMAS. You can't do what they did, and not get the sh!t end of the stick. I think it was called "# around and find out" or something like that. Well, they did, and now they are finding out.

but the sad, silly, pathetic part of this is all the lies and hyperbole spread by ALL sides. There is no way to know the truth in any of it. No way, but to dig into the accepted truths boths sides agree on. Israel said HAMAS atacked them, raped and killed 1200 or so, and kidnapped 150 or so. Both sides agree this took place. Some useful idiots deny the bad parts of one side, but those who have functioning synapse, grasp this. But did the IDF really kill 30,000 babies, but no HAMAS combatants? I'd have to say that's closer to fantasy than truth. But, did the IDF go into GAZA with the mindset of protecting innocent life first, and killing the enemy second? Nope, that is also fantasy. They went in to kill HAMAS. And they know what the feelings are in the area. I saw a poll, (again, likely propoganda) saying 87% of those living in GAZA asked, sypathyzed with HAMAS and championed their cause. That doesn't mean they took up arms, but it also doesn't mean some didn't. Where is the truth in all that? I sure as hell don't know. But it's somewhere.

It just seems easy to grasp that what is happeneing today, right now, is a result of HAMAS poking the bear with a sharp short stick, and it the propoganda is to believed, they also opperate out of civilian buildings to hide behind innocent (or seemingly innocennt) people, which causes the death toll to be horrific rather than expected. Where is the truth in that? no clue, but it's somewhere.

And if we need to list all the thing Israel has done in the past to garner this negative attention, then don't we also have to factor in the bad things done to the Jewish People in the past? Or is the "eye for an eye" thing just good for the eye doctor?

Again, thanks for your perspective, it helps to understand WHY you respond as you do. And that's important.

a reply to: network dude

I've just realized that people like you aren't trying to be deceptive.

You truly have no idea how crazy you sound to people who see the absolute horror of what is happening on the ground in Gaza and know that more bloodshed is absolutely guaranteed on a much larger scale and this is how every country in the world gets dragged into the final war for humanity.

But you just keep on arguing semantics, content with the fact that we are heading straight for the end game.

Your Jesus is not coming back to save you, no one is getting saved.

a reply to: RAY1990

Best breakdown I’ve seen in a while on a complicated issue.

originally posted by: 19Bones79
a reply to: network dude

I've just realized that people like you aren't trying to be deceptive.

You truly have no idea how crazy you sound to people who see the absolute horror of what is happening on the ground in Gaza and know that more bloodshed is absolutely guaranteed on a much larger scale and this is how every country in the world gets dragged into the final war for humanity.

But you just keep on arguing semantics, content with the fact that we are heading straight for the end game.

Your Jesus is not coming back to save you, no one is getting saved.

so should I surmize that "people like you" are actively trying to be deceptive? Perhaps why there are so many lies about all this.