Those Fake Death Numbers From Hamas Out Of Gaza

originally posted by: AgarthaSeed
a reply to: FlyersFan

Abraham Wyner, a professor of Statistics and Data Science at the Wharton School, has done an analysis on the claims by Hamas about the death totals.

Mmmmm, I'm gonna say there's a conflict of interest with the professor here...

He "may" have a dog in this fight.

Are you assuming his “jewfulness” based on his “Jewy” name ?

originally posted by: network dude
It's very telling that the Joo haters won't say a thing about how if HAMAS surrendered today, the war would end today. All we hear is how Israel should stop fighting the war HAMAS started.

If Hamas lays down their weapons, no more war.

If Israel lays down their weapons, no more Israel.

If Hamas only loved their children more than they hate Israel, there would be peace.

Everybody at ATS knows damned well this is all true.

But some still love to flap their gums and lie 24/7.

a reply to: arcticshuffle

The man is Jewish. This is an objective fact.

If a Muslim professor of statistics was saying the Palestinian death toll was actually higher than 30k, would you believe him?

a reply to: FlyersFan

Saying that civilians are dying in Gaza is truthful.
Claiming that 30,000 civilians are known to be dead by the IDF is just wrong.

How Hamas did this:

Convinced people Israel would Take their homes and they would never see it again if they left. Especially those adjacent to targets of significance, like a weapons storage cash, or a command center/primary school.

And they don't outright say 30k includes 12k Hamas fighters. All deaths. The Palestine figures include everyone. Subtract Hamas losses, the 1200-1400 Israeli civilians, IDF and police losses, and it's about 15k civilian Palestinians lost.

In 25 days, the USA/UK killed 7,700 Iraqi Soldiers and 6100 civilians. For 13,800 total @ 552 a day.

So comparatively, the near 1:1 ratio of soldier to civilian deaths is actually ON PAR with modern precision warfare.

Hypothetically, if Israel was killing at the rate we did during Shock and Awe there would be over 83,000 deaths in Gaza right now.

Schumer needs to bite his tongue and stop pandering to Dearborn sentiment..

Finally, Hamas leaders get sheltered, but I'm fairly certain the Arab world has only crocodile condemnation and no will to get involved. Somewhere between The Six Day War and ISIS in terms of their willingness to get involved.

They helped destroy Allepo. Gaza they're just not stopping. But instead opting to refer to "The Palestine Ministry of Health" casualty numbers...

Logo here:



...to not differentiate how those deaths occur and paint this as being a genocidal war, when really it's just a war.

originally posted by: AgarthaSeed
a reply to: arcticshuffle

The man is Jewish. This is an objective fact.

If a Muslim professor of statistics was saying the Palestinian death toll was actually higher than 30k, would you believe him?

Are you going on something other than his jewby-dooby name ? If not, this is the low bar that’s been set for every label from racist to homophobe.

I wouldn’t assume Muslim for a muslimy name. The person could be a Coptic Christian for all I know.

This is where adulting comes in.

originally posted by: AgarthaSeed
If a Muslim professor of statistics was saying the Palestinian death toll was actually higher than 30k, would you believe him?

I'd automatically be wary but I'd check the math and if it was sound, then it is sound.

Hay I assume Muslimness based of names, and appearance and am right like 99% of the time. 1% it’s sheiks


To answer the question about the Muslim professor I would just have to assume he is lying, like muslims do, to protect and furthers their evil faith. It’s right there in the Koran for anyone who cares to take a look.

Taqiyya

a reply to: arcticshuffle

originally posted by: Maybenexttime

originally posted by: network dude
It's very telling that the Joo haters won't say a thing about how if HAMAS surrendered today, the war would end today. All we hear is how Israel should stop fighting the war HAMAS started.

50000 soldiers saying hey Israel we surrender so you can put us in prison for the rest of our lives.

You honestly think there's a chance of that?

I wonder what they thought would happen when the came into Israel and killed 1200 and kidnapped a few hundred folks. That's DERP level 9 thinking there. So surrendering (to save the children of GAZA if they cared about them) would make sense.

a reply to: arcticshuffle

This is where adulting comes in.

Indeed.

In Abraham's own words:

I know the difference, because my mother and her parents and sister were deported from Holland and imprisoned in the Nazi concentration camp Bergen-Belsen for nearly 16 months.

www.thedp.com...

This article is unsurprisingly very pro Israel.

And here's another article in which this totally unbiased statistician does damage control for Israel:

forward.com...

What makes his analysis more accurate than that done by a group like Doctors Without Borders?

originally posted by: Threadbarer
What makes his analysis more accurate than that done by a group like Doctors Without Borders?

Who cares?

People die in war.

Civilians die in war.

The people pissing themselves over this have never seen war, been in war, fought in war, so their opinions are about as valid as a fart in a tornado.

originally posted by: Threadbarer
What makes his analysis more accurate than that done by a group like Doctors Without Borders?

What does Doctors Without Borders have to say about the Israeli hostages?
www.doctorswithoutborders.org...
I’ve searched their site and nothing comes up.
I wonder how many of them they’ve treated in Gaza.
I wonder if they would even treat them.
Seems the Gaza branch is in line with UNRWA.
Pali supporters all of them no doubt.

a reply to: Vermilion

People now (I guess) can identify as veterans and give qualifying statements on war.

Hell, it works in YMCA women's locker rooms, so why not elsewhere?

In December, the medical journal The Lancet, published two critiques of the death surveillance process done by extremely experienced scholars at Johns Hopkins and The London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine. Both concluded that the Gazan numbers were plausible and credible, albeit by somewhat different techniques and logic.
The science is clear. Over 30.000 people have been dead in Palestine.

We analysed an individual list of 7028 decedents released by the Palestinian MoH2 covering the period from Oct 7 to 1500 h on Oct 26, 2023, and which, according to the source, only featured individuals brought to health facilities and morgues. This list included national identification numbers, names, and ages, but no cause, date, or location of death.
Our initial examination suggested reasonable data quality.

These comparisons further corroborate the validity of the Palestinian MoH dataset. Similarly, satellite imagery-based estimates conducted by Sky News analysis of NASA Open Street Maps of the percentage of buildings damaged in Gaza mirror those issued by the Gaza Ministry of Public Works (7% according to both sources).

Our simple analysis indicates high excess mortality among Gazan population groups that are likely to be largely civilian, including humanitarian and health-care workers, indicating a substantial number of Palestinians killed during this period. Assessments of Palestinian MoH data validity in the 2014 conflict had shown them to be accurate, and we saw no obvious reason to doubt the validity of the data between Oct 7 and Oct 26, 2023.
Excess mortality in Gaza: Oct 7–26, 2023

Apparently there are many people who, unlike Abraham Wyner, say that the figures provided by Hamas are for many reasons. You can also see them in the sources provided. Just look at Abram's statistical "analysis."

"We think they're very high, frankly," Barbara Leaf, assistant Secretary of State for Near Eastern Affairs, told a House Foreign Affairs Committee, "and it could be that they're even higher than are being cited."

It stands in stark contrast to the view of Mr Biden himself, who, on 25 October, said he had "no notion that the Palestinians are telling the truth about how many people are killed."

However, he did not provide any evidence for his scepticism.
How the dead are counted in Gaza?

The ministry is the only official source for Gaza casualties. Israel has sealed Gaza’s borders, barring foreign journalists and humanitarian workers. The AP is among a small number of international news organizations with teams in Gaza. While those journalists cannot do a comprehensive count, they’ve viewed large numbers of bodies at the sites of airstrikes, morgues and funerals.

“The numbers may not be perfectly accurate on a minute-to-minute basis,” said Michael Ryan, of the World Health Organization’s Health Emergencies Program. “But they largely reflect the level of death and injury.”

In previous wars, the ministry’s counts have held up to U.N. scrutiny, independent investigations and even Israel’s tallies.

on Oct. 27, in response to U.S. doubts over its figures, the ministry released a 212-page report listing every Palestinian killed in the war so far, including their names, ID numbers, ages and gender. A copy of the report shared with the AP named 6,747 Palestinians and said an additional 281 bodies have not yet been identified.

Throughout four wars and numerous bloody skirmishes between Israel and Hamas, U.N. agencies have cited the Health Ministry’s death tolls in regular reports. The International Committee of the Red Cross and Palestinian Red Crescent also use the numbers.

In the aftermath of war, the U.N. humanitarian office has published final death tolls based on its own research into medical records.

In all cases the U.N.'s counts have largely been consistent with the Gaza Health Ministry’s, with small discrepancies.
WHAT IS THE TRACK RECORD FROM PAST WARS?

Your excuse for saying that the data is false, is that it counts combatants and civilians alike?

When Israel talks about 11,000 Hamas "fighters" dead, without ever mentioning the number of civilians, do you take that as true?

When the data from the other Palestine-Israel wars say that the death tolls provided by the Palestinian Ministry of Health are reliable, why not now?

Do you know that sooner or later the figures will be known by other international organizations other than Hamas?
If the figures turn out to be true,
Will you say that Israel is a liar and that you ate and sold its own hasbara?

a reply to: HopeForTheFuture

Meh

palestinians shouldn't have pissed off the Israelis by killing, raping civilians.

I agree the Hama death count is inaccurate with how many have been trapped, exploded and burred alive among all the building rubble. For now they are just missing.

I do wonder just how many of the hostages have had a similar fate with the indiscriminate bombing campaign? It does make a convenient excuses to continue the invasion as these ones will never be returning.

a reply to: DBCowboy

But I thought civilian casualties were acceptable in war?

a reply to: DBCowboy

It seems that now it is the Israelis who are angering the world.

The former head of the Operations Division harshly criticized the management of the campaign in Gaza • "What is the IDF supposed to do in the absence of a policy?" We are over five months into this war without any predictable political goal," he said in an interview with 103FM
Israel Ziv: "The war has ceased to be managed - a loss of direction"

The annual V-dem index report, which examines the democratic nature of regimes in the world, noted that Israel has deteriorated into the category of electoral democracy, due, among other things, to "government attacks on the judicial system". Along with Israel, this category also includes Poland and Brazil

Israel has lost its ranking as a liberal democracy in a leading index for evaluating democracies

Israel's foreign minister says, 'History will judge Canada's current action harshly.' Canada's statement underscores the growing criticism of Israel's actions in Gaza, as Western countries find themselves in hot water for arms sales to Israel.
Israeli FM Slams Canadian Counterpart's Decision to Stop Sending Arms to Israel

The colonizing, racist, supremacist and genocidal state of Israel is angering the world...

You are going to be left alone, the Zionists and the butt-lickers of Zionism.

a reply to: HopeForTheFuture

Yeah, I'm a Zionist.

Deal with it.

Your repeating yourself 😂 prove homus incorrect. Or go and count the slain 🤷🏽‍♂️ By the by, your post could be said about any of the participants in that particular conflict.

a reply to: FlyersFan

The name Abraham does indeed suggest the gentleman may have a bias towards Israel, it being a predominantly Jewish name.

Thought that would be obvious to a reasonable reader….