West Point Drops 'Duty, Honor, Country' From Mission Statement

The barbarian army mission statement . . .

Crush your enemies. See them driven before you. And to hear the lamentation of their women!

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Annee
I do think it’s right to ask or insist a legal immigrant be loyal to any country other than their own.

Military is a job. Protecting the US is the job.

And if they are not loyal to the US, they won't be willing to put their life on the line to protect it. Demanding loyalty to the USA in order to be in the US Army is extremely important. It's not just a job. The military is MUCH more than that.

It is just a job.

Many jobs require loyalty.

No it's not. It's far, far more than "just a job". It's a call to service.

Duty to your country and duty to service in the Corps were the bedrock of the United States Marine Corps when I served.

1983-1989. I imagine it hasn't changed much at all since then. Maybe some active duty Marines can weigh in and enlighten us about present core values. No pun intended. 😏

originally posted by: SchrodingersRat

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Annee
I do think it’s right to ask or insist a legal immigrant be loyal to any country other than their own.

Military is a job. Protecting the US is the job.

And if they are not loyal to the US, they won't be willing to put their life on the line to protect it. Demanding loyalty to the USA in order to be in the US Army is extremely important. It's not just a job. The military is MUCH more than that.

It is just a job.

Many jobs require loyalty.

It's a call to service.

It was at one time.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: SchrodingersRat

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Annee
I do think it’s right to ask or insist a legal immigrant be loyal to any country other than their own.

Military is a job. Protecting the US is the job.

And if they are not loyal to the US, they won't be willing to put their life on the line to protect it. Demanding loyalty to the USA in order to be in the US Army is extremely important. It's not just a job. The military is MUCH more than that.

It is just a job.

Many jobs require loyalty.

It's a call to service.

It was at one time.

You may be right but I'm going to reserve judgement until I speak with some active duty Marines and Navy personnel.

I'll let you folks know what I learn from them about their feelings and their call to service and duty.

Prior Active Duty Army here as Cavalry, during two enlistments before being medically separated. Combat Veteran, stop lossed during the Surge 2007.
Honorable Discharge. I can speak for myself, and brothers.

The day we see our most Patriotic Establishments, desecrated is the day we know America can be lost.

With out a shot fired ...


a reply to: FlyersFan

This is what happens, when We the People, Don't pay attention to politics.

We get taken over.

originally posted by: SchrodingersRat

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: SchrodingersRat

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Annee
I do think it’s right to ask or insist a legal immigrant be loyal to any country other than their own.

Military is a job. Protecting the US is the job.

And if they are not loyal to the US, they won't be willing to put their life on the line to protect it. Demanding loyalty to the USA in order to be in the US Army is extremely important. It's not just a job. The military is MUCH more than that.

It is just a job.

Many jobs require loyalty.

It's a call to service.

It was at one time.

You may be right but I'm going to reserve judgement until I speak with some active duty Marines and Navy personnel.

I'll let you folks know what I learn from them about their feelings and their call to service and duty.

OK - I checked as promised.

You're not wrong, Annee.

You're flat-out, 180 degrees wrongheaded on this.

It *is* a call to service. To honor. To country.

Yes, our military still believes all that old fashioned stuff.

Damn the WOKE. They should be on their knees every morning giving thanks for this country and it's strong military that gives them he opportunity to be WOKE in the first place....and stupid...and ungrateful...while still living comfortably in such a great nation.

Try being WOKE in a country like Russia or North Korea or Iran or Syria or...

You getting the drift yet?

Who would in their right mind would want to enlist in todays “Army of one”? That slogan was the demise.

Ponytails, makeup and mentally retarded people in the infantry, I sh1t you not, look it up.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: SchrodingersRat

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Annee
I do think it’s right to ask or insist a legal immigrant be loyal to any country other than their own.

Military is a job. Protecting the US is the job.

And if they are not loyal to the US, they won't be willing to put their life on the line to protect it. Demanding loyalty to the USA in order to be in the US Army is extremely important. It's not just a job. The military is MUCH more than that.

It is just a job.

Many jobs require loyalty.

It's a call to service.

It was at one time.

When was that?
When there wasn’t so many America hating clowns running around the country and running the country into the ground?

originally posted by: RazorV66

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: SchrodingersRat

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Annee
I do think it’s right to ask or insist a legal immigrant be loyal to any country other than their own.

Military is a job. Protecting the US is the job.

And if they are not loyal to the US, they won't be willing to put their life on the line to protect it. Demanding loyalty to the USA in order to be in the US Army is extremely important. It's not just a job. The military is MUCH more than that.

It is just a job.

Many jobs require loyalty.

It's a call to service.

It was at one time.

When was that?
When there wasn’t so many America hating clowns running around the country and running the country into the ground?

Being that I was a "Victory Baby" -- born about 13 months after the war. Things were very Rah Rah in the years following.

When the government said JUMP -- you "JUMPED". HA HA -- like that's gonna happen these days.

Yet, you pick and choose when to be pro-government and when they're the enemy.

Oh, wait -- I'm sure I'm misunderstanding: Pro-America is not Pro-government.

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
Thin end of the woke wedge?

"Nelson: "Order the signal, Hardy."
Hardy: "Aye, aye sir."
Nelson: "Hold on, that's not what I dictated to Flags. What's the meaning of this?"
Hardy: "Sorry sir?"
Nelson (reading aloud): "'England expects every person to do his or her duty, regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, religious persuasion or disability.' - What gobbledegook is this?"
Hardy: "Admiralty policy, I'm afraid, sir. We're an equal opportunities employer now. We had the devil's own job getting 'England' past the censors, lest it be considered racist."
Nelson: "Gadzooks, Hardy. Hand me my pipe and tobacco."
Hardy: "Sorry sir. All naval vessels have now been designated smoke-free working environments."
Nelson: "In that case, break open the rum ration. Let us splice the mainbrace to steel the men before battle."
Hardy: "The rum ration has been abolished, Admiral. Its part of the Government's policy on binge drinking."
Nelson: "Good heavens, Hardy. I suppose we'd better get on with it .full speed ahead."
Hardy: "I think you'll find that there's a 4 knot speed limit in this stretch of water."
Nelson: "Damn it man! We are on the eve of the greatest sea battle in history. We must advance with all dispatch. Report from the crow's nest please."
Hardy: "That won't be possible, sir."
Nelson:"What?"
Hardy: "Health and Safety have closed the crow's nest, sir. No harness, and they said that rope ladders don't meet regulations. They won't let anyone up there until a proper scaffolding can be erected."
Nelson: "Then get me the ship's carpenter without delay, Hardy."
Hardy: "He's busy knocking up a wheelchair access to the fo'c'sle Admiral."
Nelson: "Wheelchair access? I've never heard anything so absurd."
Hardy: "Health and safety again, sir. We have to provide a barrier-free environment for the differently abled."
Nelson: "Differently abled? I've only one arm and one eye and I refuse even to hear mention of the word. I didn't rise to the rank of admiral by playing the disability card."
Hardy: "Actually, sir, you did. The Royal Navy is under represented in the areas of visual impairment and limb deficiency."
Nelson: "Whatever next? Give me full sail. The salt spray beckons."
Hardy: "A couple of problems there too, sir. Health and safety won't let the crew up the rigging without hard hats. And they don't want anyone breathing in too much salt - haven't you seen the adverts?"
Nelson: "I've never heard such infamy. Break out the cannon and tell the men to stand by to engage the enemy."
Hardy: "The men are a bit worried about shooting at anyone, Admiral."
Nelson: "What? This is mutiny!"
Hardy: "It's not that, sir. It's just that they're afraid of being charged with murder if they actually kill anyone. There's a couple of legal-aid lawyers on board, watching everyone like hawks."
Nelson: "Then how are we to sink the Frenchies and the Spanish?"
Hardy: "Actually, sir, we're not."
Nelson: "We're not?"
Hardy: "No, sir. The French and the Spanish are our European partners now. According to the Common Fisheries Policy, we shouldn't even be in this stretch of water. We could get hit with a claim for compensation."
Nelson: "But you must hate a Frenchman as you hate the devil."
Hardy: "I wouldn't let the ship's diversity co-ordinator hear you saying that sir. You'll be up on disciplinary report."
Nelson: "You must consider every man an enemy, who speaks ill of your King."
Hardy: "Not any more, sir. We must be inclusive in this multicultural age. Now put on your Kevlar vest; it's the rules. It could save your life"
Nelson: "Don't tell me - health and safety. Whatever happened to rum, sodomy and the lash?"
Hardy: As I explained, sir, rum is off the menu! And there's a ban on corporal punishment."
Nelson: "What about sodomy?"
Hardy: "I believe that is now legal, sir."
Nelson: "In that case............................... kiss me, Hardy."

What a brilliant twist on a classic tale. Bravo.

a reply to: Annee

After the Iraq/Afghan wars everyone dressed in Geardo military Tac wannabes, I noticed a downward trend over the last couple of years, and now virtually nobody wears rah rah geardo, the ones who do are oddball weirdos.

Even active duty try and blend in and thank god stopped wearing issued boots in jeans and their basic training t shirt.

I get my visuals from major airports.

originally posted by: 38181
a reply to: Annee

After the Iraq/Afghan wars everyone dressed in Geardo military Tac wannabes, I noticed a downward trend over the last couple of years, and now virtually nobody wears rah rah geardo, the ones who do are oddball weirdos.

Even active duty try and blend in and thank god stopped wearing issued boots in jeans and their basic training t shirt.

I get my visuals from major airports.

Part of the reason for that is it makes us targets. There are lots of unhinged liberals who despise the military and veterans.

Why they hate us, it depends on who you talk to. From talking to them, here are a few reasons:

--They despise the respect we get
--They despise our patriotism
--They falsely think most federal funding goes to the military and vets (which isn't true) and they think we're responsible for them not getting all their socialist programs they want

originally posted by: 38181
a reply to: Annee

After the Iraq/Afghan wars everyone dressed in Geardo military Tac wannabes, I noticed a downward trend over the last couple of years, and now virtually nobody wears rah rah geardo, the ones who do are oddball weirdos.

Even active duty try and blend in and thank god stopped wearing issued boots in jeans and their basic training t shirt.

I get my visuals from major airports.

Times have just changed.

Idealism is a nice word -- but not reality.

How can you be all 'Duty, Honor, Country' -- but anti-government because what is today is not your "yesteryear's" idealism?

What does Pro-America even mean today?

However, my other point was legal immigrants joining the military. Legal or not -- they are immigrants from their own county.

The military is having recruitment issues. Unless they bring the draft back -- they need to take whoever qualifies.

Legal immigrants (and some probably not legal) -- see the military as a way to stay in this country and a job. It is a job.

They should not be required to denounce their home country. Maybe 50 years ago -- but not in today's world.

originally posted by: Annee
They should not be required to denounce their home country. Maybe 50 years ago -- but not in today's world.

It is not just a job.
Loyalty to the USA is necessary.
These people promise to give their lives for America if necessary.
These people promise to kill masses of people for America if necessary.
You can't have people with divided loyalties, or no loyalty at all.
It doesn't work.
They can't be on a battlefield fighting against another country and then decide their loyalty is to that country instead of the USA. Or they can't be in the military holding secret information and then decide they don't like what the USA is doing so they give up the secret information because they have no loyalty to the USA.

Like I said. You werent' in.
You don't understand what being in the military is all about.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Moon68
The Army Values: Loyalty, Duty, Respect, Selfless Service, Honor, Integrity, and Personal Courage.

I was in 1981-1986. Never got a formal lesson with that taught to us.
Either it wasn't taught, or I was asleep in basic training and missed it.

When I enlisted in the Air Force in 1990, we didn't have core values. Still none in 1994 when I commissioned. I think they came along 1995 for us. Just some USAF Chief of Staff's idea for his legacy. Three things, easy to remember. I rolled with it.

Then about 2007, another good idea fairy lit upon another CSAF's shoulder and whispered to him "Aaaaairmaaaan's Creeeeed will be YOUR legacy". I was late to the game on that one.

Was at some ceremony and someone's gonna lead us in reciting the Airman's Creed. What? Wth is that? It kicks off. Everyone, in unison, monotone, like Catholic Mass or Children of the Corn... "I am an American Airman... words, words, words. I am an American Airman...stuff about wingmen, warriors, Airman's behinds, and never faltering or failing"

I was so lost. Like how did I miss this boat so bad that I didn't know it existed, let alone know the words to drone along with everyone else.

So FlyersFan, I missed some big geehaw military moment as well. Ten years later, retired, never learned the Creed. Just didn't resonate with me at the 17 year point in my career like it might with a Day 1 trainee. I suspect the CSAF was this first one to realize the Army had a creed and the Air Force didn't, so we bloody well better get one.

a reply to: FlyersFan

"You can't have someone on the battlefield suddenly say they don't like what America is doing so they refuse to fight and do their duty. You can't have someone in the military go out and picket government buildings and protest what the United States is doing. That's fighting AGAINST the country. A military member must be loyal to the country. "

What you said that I didn't quote is true.

However, you seem to have some skewed notions about duty. It is your duty as a citizen of the United States to "picket government buildings and protest what the United States is doing," in other words speak out against when our Government is doing things that are wrong. You want to know who America is? Read the declaration of independence sometime.. "We the PEOPLE" is the United States, not we the government nor we the chunk of dirt, nor we the border lines on a map.

As to "You can't have someone on the battlefield suddenly say they don't like what America is doing so they refuse to fight and do their duty." Bullpucky -- during the Nuremburg trials after WWII, it was established that the "I was just following orders" is no excuse for a soldier. There are times when it is the duty and responsibility of the soldier to disobey orders. That was adopted as a world-wide legal position by all countries concerned. It was used against the Germans under trial, many of whom hanged at the end of a rope despite "I was just following orders."

People who refuse to do their duty ARE fighting against the country, agreed.

Duty is a synonym for responsibility, not a magical word that no-one else can understand without some particular shared experience like military service. To say such makes the meaning of the word "duty" both subjective and meaningless...

There is a reason to petition the Government for a redress of grievances, which is what you refer to as "picketing" or "protesting" and it is part of the first amendment, and it is a right for every citizen of the United states, not just "civilians." It is part of the duty (responsibility) of every American Citizen to exercise their rights.

The "Us vs Them" mentality places both groups at odds with each other, which means the military man adopting the attitude has chosen to stand opposed to his fellow countrymen. He is fighting AGAINST his country. When they fight against people exercising their legal rights, that... wow... that borders loosely on treason. At that point they are actively aiding and abetting the enemy by weakening America through refusal to protect the constitution against all aggressors, both foreign and domestic.

originally posted by: SaberToothedRabbit
you seem to have some skewed notions about duty.

My 'notions' are just fine.
People in the military are not allowed to protest against the US government.
It's against the law.
Active Duty Military - Military.Com
And a person can't be in the military following orders AND at the same time protesting against them.
It doesn't work.