France makes abortion a constitutional right in historic vote

a reply to: UpIsNowDown2

The law thats says the unborn are people? Lol

We had nealry 50years of brainwashing people into becoming murderers


But, to answer your question..there are none, yet ... They are coming though.


Eta

And rest assured you will freak out when a woman is charged... You wont agree with it and you will rage and kick and scream.....

..because another human wont die

a reply to: Another_Nut

The law thats says the unborn are people? Lol

What law?

a reply to: Another_Nut

Sorry to burst your bubble, I wont freak out over it, rage or kick and scream, hell I wont even use capital letters in an online conversation

I think its fair to say you wish to have an element of control over other peoples choices I do not, even if it becomes illegal like you suggest, do you think it wil stop?

Enjoy the debate

For me I have little else to say

a reply to: strongfp

They are the facts, but why should you force someone to carry to term?

Pregnancy is a consequence of voluntary sexual activity.
99%+ of it.

a reply to: Another_Nut

You say if its in your body it IS your body..

I said that another body doesn't have a right to my body. It's my body they are using without my consent. Nobody has a right to use my body for anything without my consent. Even if their life depends on it.

originally posted by: Venkuish1
Usually free in most European countries or comes at a low cost. Healthcare is free for most conditions and operations.

Not here. Adoption here has lots of restrictions and costs a bunch if you have to go private because you don't meet state restrictions (like you are too old according to the state). At least, that's how it was for us 28 years ago. Things may have changed since then.

a reply to: Another_Nut

Might be best to ask an actual Lawyer.

Like i suggested through, under most legal systems unborn children do not have separate legal recognition from their parents.

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: network dude

Ah the old it's murder card.

It's not murder, but since we've both stated two end stage debate talking points on the subject, it's just going to be going around circles beating the dead horse.
Again, you keep trying to drag people into your moral world view, I'll let people, and families decide for themselves how to run their lives.

Trust me when I say this, I fully understand that my opinion isn't shared by everyone. Even my wife is against me on this to a degree. But since I do live in a free country, and I have the right and ability to think for myself, I will hold this belief, and hope and pray for those who are thinking of aborting a child, would instead find a family who would love nothing more than to have a child.

Everyone will continue to be able to kill all the babies they want, even if I don't like it. I do wonder, do you feel the same about those who feel as I do when you claim to want "families decide for themselves how to run their lives"?

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: Another_Nut

You say if its in your body it IS your body..

I said that another body doesn't have a right to my body. It's my body they are using without my consent. Nobody has a right to use my body for anything without my consent. Even if their life depends on it.

there is a process where a child is created inside the woman. Understanding that process is key to not having those pesky leaches pop up inside you and have to smash them. Keep your legs closed and if you want to screw everyone, use protection. Or better yet, get fixed so you can't have kids. Not everyone is patent material.

originally posted by: network dude
pray for those who are thinking of aborting a child, would instead find a family who would love nothing more than to have a child.

When we adopted - 28 years ago in Alabama - there was a 'baby shortage' and an 8 year wait if you went through the state. By the time people figured out they couldn't have kids, and they waited the 8 years for a baby going through the state, you were too old according to the rules at that time and wouldn't be able to adopt. So people ended up going the expensive route of private or overseas adoptions.

I have no idea what the situation is now. It's probably different in each state and things may have changed in 28 years.

a reply to: FlyersFan

its still expensive.. around 30k as of last year

originally posted by: Vermilion

originally posted by: Venkuish1

originally posted by: Vermilion
a reply to: strongfp

This has zero to do with religion.
This is about ethics and morals.
Are you saying atheists aren’t ethical or moral?
Don’t use religion as a scapegoat for immoral and unethical abortion.

So the 85% of French people who agree with abortion rights are immoral and unethical?

Abortion is immoral and unethical.
Change my mind.

Ethics and morality are subjective. I don't need to change your mind and I am not intending to do so. Most French people find it moral and ethical which resulted in abortion becoming a constitutional right. It was legal since 1975 but it went one step further on this occasion.

a reply to: network dude

The issue I'm discussing with Another_Nut, is whether or not one person has a right to another person's body. Not the workings of the birds and the bees or yours and other people's moral outrage on a woman not having proper motherly instincts.

If you're going to go the "it's not your body" route, I say, "You're Damned right! It's not your body, it's MY BODY, and MY CHOICE!

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Venkuish1
Usually free in most European countries or comes at a low cost. Healthcare is free for most conditions and operations.

Not here. Adoption here has lots of restrictions and costs a bunch if you have to go private because you don't meet state restrictions (like you are too old according to the state). At least, that's how it was for us 28 years ago. Things may have changed since then.

I know.

a reply to: Vermilion

Ideology is a hell of a drug to get addicted to, especially if it's been subjected to dogmatic institutionalized religions.

a reply to: Another_Nut

What gets me with adoption is the hoops they make some poor sods hop through never mind the cost.

When you consider that they will quite happily leave a child with the likes of junkie or alcoholic parents right up until the child neglect cannot be ignored any longer.

Maybe that's just here all the same as opposed to other places.

a reply to: network dude

I find it kinda funny how you're the second male to say "my wife doesn't agree with me... but". Furthering more evidence that it's mostly men who are overly pro life.

I don't see abortion as killing full grown babies. And I also don't see aborting a pregnancy before 12 or so weeks as problematic, it's a tough choice for lots of people, and families to make. I don't walk in their shoes to know all the details. And neither do you.

a reply to: andy06shake

those hoops are one of the most rage inducing things in the states for me, lot of people want to adopt and you can spend thousands of dollars do everything right and some random blood relative can go I want the kid and you are out.

It is so stupid that the best thing to do is foster and then let the kid know you will adopt them if they want and have them do the paperwork for it.

Adoption laws are so needlessly pain inducing pisses me off.

ETA: on topic, its france *shrugs* no matter how distasteful I think using abortion as a form of birth control is, its their right to chose that path.

originally posted by: Another_Nut
a reply to: Venkuish1

Biology says a viable human is created at inplantation

Please.. if you dont believe me just look up the definitions of all those words...

So when a loon says "if its in my body it IS my body" they are , factually, wrong.

It's ok I don't have to look at the definitions.

You do know that there is no universal agreement on when the embryo/fetus is considered a human. That's from a medical perspective.

In law things are different but law usually seems to agree with science that's why abortions are usually allowed until week 12 or 14-16 into the pregnancy.

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: network dude

I find it kinda funny how you're the second male to say "my wife doesn't agree with me... but". Furthering more evidence that it's mostly men who are overly pro life.

I don't see abortion as killing full grown babies. And I also don't see aborting a pregnancy before 12 or so weeks as problematic, it's a tough choice for lots of people, and families to make. I don't walk in their shoes to know all the details. And neither do you.

you are correct. I can't imagine having to decide to take a life or not. I hope I never have to. But I am allowed to have my opinion, and since this site is all about opinions, I feel like it's OK if I state it here.