Is the israeli military this inept

originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: Lazy88

What's the olive branch offered for their benevolent act that resulted in nakba?

Shrugs…

During the past three decades, Israel has made countless concessions to the Palestinians as part of an effort to advance peace and coexistence.

In 1993-95, Israel signed the Oslo Accords with the Palestinians, giving them full security and civilian control over large parts of the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Thousands of PLO members stationed in various Arab countries were allowed to move to the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Israel released thousands of Palestinian security prisoners, including many who were involved in terrorist attacks against Israelis.

www.jns.org...#:~:text=During%20the%20past%20three%20decades,West%20Bank%20and%20Gaza%20Strip.

Israel’s concessions did not advance the peace process. Instead, they were seen by the Palestinians as a sign of weakness, prompting them to increase their terrorist attacks and incitement against Israel.

The Palestinians turned down two concrete Israeli offers of peace (at the Camp David summit in 2000 and from then Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert in 2008) that would have given them a state on most of the land of the West Bank, Gaza Strip and eastern Jerusalem.
www.jns.org...#:~:text=During%20the%20past%20three%20decades,West%20Bank%20and%20Gaza%20Strip.

At the Camp David summit, then U.S. President Bill Clinton presented the Israelis and Palestinians with an outline of the parameters for a final-status agreement that closely mirrored then Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak’s proposal, which would have given the Palestinians 97% of the West Bank, full control of the Gaza Strip and large parts of eastern Jerusalem. Yasser Arafat, then leader of the PLO, rejected the offer, mainly because of a clause in the agreement specifying that the deal meant the end of the conflict. Dennis Ross, then U.S. Middle East envoy, who participated in the Camp David negotiations, said: “For him [Arafat] to end the conflict is to end himself.”

Is it really that hard to stop firing rockets at Israeli citizens?

Vs Hamas? Hamas that was in a violent power struggle with the Palestinian Authority, and still is in the West Bank. Hamas helping arm the West Bank. Hamas that continues rocket attacks on Israeli citizens. Hamas that stays in power through jihad and the promise of making people martyrs. So. How can there be peace while Hamas is in power?

edit on 6-3-2024 by Lazy88 because: (no reason given)

a reply to: Lazy88

Kinda, it doesn't help that either part of the conflict don't really have a worldview where there is a place for others that don't share their world view.

They both belive in my way or the highway, and that's how you get conflicts....

Like I said, the propaganda goons are all over and when they fail to adress both mistakes you know what you're dealing with...

You're a prime example, shrughing off historical facts, to then go on a propagand spree that paints one side as the saints...

No one is that gullible by mistake....

originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: Lazy88

Kinda, it doesn't help that either part of the conflict don't really have a worldview where there is a place for others that don't share their world view.

They both belive in my way or the highway, and that's how you get conflicts....

Like I said, the propaganda goons are all over and when they fail to adress both mistakes you know what you're dealing with...

?

Cited for you

“At the Camp David summit, then U.S. President Bill Clinton presented the Israelis and Palestinians with an outline of the parameters for a final-status agreement that closely mirrored then Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak’s proposal, which would have given the Palestinians 97% of the West Bank, full control of the Gaza Strip and large parts of eastern Jerusalem. Yasser Arafat, then leader of the PLO, rejected the offer, mainly because of a clause in the agreement specifying that the deal meant the end of the conflict. Dennis Ross, then U.S. Middle East envoy, who participated in the Camp David negotiations, said: “For him [Arafat] to end the conflict is to end himself.””

Is there any indication Hamas wants to stop jihad?

Just checking in.
Have the Israelis genocided the palestinians yet?
It’s already been 5 months.
Surely they must be close.
Maybe they really are horrible at that whole genocide thing. 😉

a reply to: Lazy88

More one sided propaganda ok...

why violently relocate and expropriate 700.000 Palestinians as one of the first acts as independent nation?

Jihad is slightly bigger than hamas, hopefully this new rhetoric is just yours, because that would be more than Isreal could stomach...

Here is how the adults in the room debate the camp David summit...

Reports of the outcome of the summit have been described as illustrating the Rashomon effect, in which the multiple witnesses gave contradictory and self-serving interpretations.

Which party (parties) should be blamed for the lack of success of the Summit is hotly debated. In a 2005 book published by Heribert Adam and Kogila Moodley, the authors state "Informed observer blamed all three parties’ negotiation strategies for the failure", referring to the Israeli, Palestinians and Americans.[17]

I guess you're suffering from that Rashomon effect...

originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: Lazy88

More one sided propaganda ok...

.

Hint. This is where you post cited sources that shows what Hamas is willing to invest to achieve peace.

a reply to: Lazy88

Hint: that would then be propaganda...

neither wants peace, or the path they choose to achieve it is completely wrong, causing more conflict.

Both are paving the way to hell with what they think are good intentions...

a reply to: Terpene

I would think retuning hostages and not firing rockets with the soul purpose of killing and terrorising civilians would be a start? Maybe establish actual military bases and not use civilian infrastructure in Gaza? You know. Something legit?

a reply to: Lazy88

That would be wise, is Israel then also going to give back the properties of 700000 Palestinians or how does that work?

Are you really that biased that you can't see the heavy hand israel had in creating this generation spanning conflict?

You seem to think one side is innocent, which is laughable!

only kids haven't learned that an ongoing conflict needs two to keep going, apparently there are also adults with the limited mental capacity of a kid...

You ignore legit critique which tells me everything i need to know of how much an honest unbiased exchange of opinions this can be... So thanks for playing and sorry for your waste of propaganda...

originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: Lazy88


Are you really that biased that you can't see the heavy hand israel had in creating this generation spanning conflict?

Israel has made concessions. Isreal tried to be reactionary and only retaliate after rockets fired. That got them Oct 7.

Properties? As in destroying sites that Hamas used as rocket bases and launch sites? Again, what military bases did Hamas stage their attacks from, and store their weapons?

How about Hamas not coward behind civilians and turn civilian infrastructure against international law into base of operations for militants?

a reply to: Terpene

Asked you a question. How has Hamas invest in peace. I know you can’t answer because they haven’t put any effort forth.

originally posted by: deckard74
a reply to: ToneD

...
I mean, what exactly are they referring to as *God*, when they say they are chosen?

"The god of this system of things" (2 Cor 4:4), although they wouldn't know that (most of them at least, there may be exceptions in the upper echelons of Judaism and the country), the same one who has tricked you (he hates your guts by the way; you can only resist his influence once you accept you have been victimized by him, and then begin to take an interest in how he has done it to you personally, as well as an interest in the One who can help you resist his influence).

And, would this *God* really condone this kind of massacre? Scary, scary world we live in.

"The god of this system of things" would, actually, it's a major part of his agenda. Divide and conquer (pushing the buttons of hatred, pride and fear; again the same buttons he pushes when he's conditioning, indoctrinating and brainwashing you). Some of this major tools as used on a global scale (not just in Israel):

nationalism (and its cousin patriotism) and accompanying idolatry (the flag of a country is treated by many as an idol, in previous commentary of mine I gave lots of detailed evidence concerning that topic so I'm a bit reluctant to elaborate now; this is just a summary)
false religion (described as "Babylon the Great" in the book of Revelation, the last book in the Bible), including scientism, and all the major religions: Chistendom (the religions that falsely claim to be Christian, i.e. counterfeit Christianity), Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Sikhism, Judaism (technically, nationalism is also a religion, as discussed in detail in the commentary I was referring to earlier; also the religion of scientism tends to draw in a lot of people who self-identify as agnostics or atheists, and those who believe in evolutionary religiously rooted and motivated mythology tied in with philosophical naturalism, pantheism and Mother Nature worship)

False religion/Babylon the Great is nearing its end though. Which is good news. Shortly after that, Jesus is going to take over, along with his God and Father (John 20:17; Eph 1:3), Jehovah. More good news.

2 Corinthians 4:3-9

If, in fact, the good news we declare is veiled, it is veiled among those who are perishing, among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, so that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through. 5 For we are preaching, not about ourselves, but about Jesus Christ as Lord and ourselves as your slaves for Jesus’ sake. 6 For God is the one who said: “Let the light shine out of darkness,” and he has shone on our hearts to illuminate them with the glorious knowledge of God by the face of Christ.

7 However, we have this treasure in earthen vessels, so that the power beyond what is normal may be God’s and not from us. 8 We are hard-pressed in every way, but not cramped beyond movement; we are perplexed, but not absolutely with no way out;* [Or possibly, “but not left in despair.”] 9 we are persecuted, but not abandoned; we are knocked down, but not destroyed.

Because...

Context (playlist; I put the playlist itself in the link instead of the 1st video because I'm hoping those who might click will read the description first):

Real science, knowledge of realities compared to unverified philosophies and stories

originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: Lazy88
...
You seem to think one side is innocent, which is laughable!

... So thanks for playing and sorry for your waste of propaganda...

Good, you spotted that the person you are responding to has been heavily affected by Israeli propaganda and their arguments, that are also repeated by Western media, so he's not necessarily in Israel or Jewish (although obviously, these 2 groups would be more susceptible to it, so it would not be surprising if he belonged to either or both groups, Jewish people can of course be found across the globe and in particular the US if we're thinking about where the majority of ATS users are from).

But now it's your turn, cause it's always easier to spot others that have been affected by propaganda, but it's a lot harder to notice when it's happening to oneself. The first step is recognizing the original source of the propaganda that is affecting you. The Bible describes this original source as "the god of this system of things" (2 Cor 4:4). More information about him and how he might have affected you can be found in my previous comment (see the list of "his major tools as used on a global scale"; I accidentally said "this" instead of "his" before, so this is also an edit, I'm out of edit time again).

The playlist at the end covers a lot more. I do somewhat assume that you would like to know that this is also happening to you (just like everybody else) and how to recognize it, but keep in mind that any information about it, when it concerns you specifically and your strongly held beliefs/opinions/ideas/philosophies, will be rather unpleasant at first, it will not 'tickle your ears'. But it is beneficial to you, i.e. for your own good.

“For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the wholesome* [Or “healthful; beneficial.”] teaching, but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled.* [Or “to tell them what they want to hear.”] They will turn away from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories.” (2 Timothy 4:3,4)

Isaiah 48:17,18

17 This is what Jehovah says, your Repurchaser, the Holy One of Israel:

“I, Jehovah, am your God,

The One teaching you to benefit yourself,* [Or “for your own good.”]

The One guiding you in the way you should walk.

18 If only you would pay attention to my commandments!

Then your peace would become just like a river

And your righteousness like the waves of the sea.

He really wants to help you, but you have to let him. The first step in that process is recognizing and acknowledging to yourself that you need help. Someone has been screwing with your mind (your thinking) and your heart (your emotions, your attitude, in particular your attutide towards information and teaching that is for your own good as described at 2 Tim 4:3 as "will not put up with"), and he has used his entire system of things to do that to you since birth, just like he has done with the rest of mankind. And he's got thousands of years of experience with it, so he has honed his skills in this regard quite well.

John 8:42-47

Jesus said to them: “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I have not come of my own initiative, but that One sent me. 43 Why do you not understand what I am saying? Because you cannot listen to* [Or “accept.”] my word. 44 You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father. That one was a murderer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie. 45 Because I, on the other hand, tell you the truth, you do not believe me. 46 Who of you convicts me of sin? If I speak truth, why is it that you do not believe me? 47 The one who is from God listens to the sayings of God. This is why you do not listen, because you are not from God.”

Matthew 13:13-15 (Jesus teaching again)

That is why I speak to them by the use of illustrations; for looking, they look in vain, and hearing, they hear in vain, nor do they get the sense of it. 14 And the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled in their case. It says: ‘You will indeed hear but by no means get the sense of it, and you will indeed look but by no means see. 15 For the heart of this people has grown unreceptive, and with their ears they have heard without response, and they have shut their eyes, so that they might never see with their eyes and hear with their ears and get the sense of it with their hearts and turn back and I heal them.’

Jesus was referring to the prophecy at Isaiah 6:8-10 (which identifies the "I" in the last sentence above):

8 Then I heard the voice of Jehovah saying: “Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?” And I said: “Here I am! Send me!”

9 And he replied, “Go, and say to this people:

‘You will hear again and again,

But you will not understand;

You will see again and again,

But you will not get any knowledge.’

10 Make the heart of this people unreceptive,

Make their ears unresponsive,

And paste their eyes together,

So that they may not see with their eyes

And hear with their ears,

So that their heart may not understand

And they may not turn back and be healed.”

So the goal is not to get stuck in that category of people. And to break free from it. John 8:31,32:

Then Jesus went on to say to the Jews who had believed him: “If you remain in my word, you are really my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

a reply to: Lazy88

I answered that question, now try and adress nekba and how that was a great start for an independent nation to declare their peaceful intention?

a reply to: whereislogic

Sorry i made it a habit to just scroll over your wall of text that are mainly quotes from a fairytale...

a reply to: Terpene

That is to be expected from the manipulation by "the god of this system of things" (2 Cor 4:4) and all his human and spirit pawns and victims on this site (and especially when it comes to the victims: this would include encouragement of the behaviour/habit and accompanying attitude you described and expressed, according to the way it is described at 1 Cor. 15:33).

You don't have to apologize for it. It will be the case for most people here who are not aware they are being manipulated and molded with that attitude towards the "beneficial teaching" described at 2 Tim 4:3,4. Described as "will not put up with".

But thank you for your acknowledgement and honesty (which is quite commendable and helpful to me), it does add to the evidence for the reliability of the Bible and adds to the pile of evidence that this is not a book of fairy tales (in particular and in this case the reliability of those texts I have quoted in all my commentary in this thread so far). So it could still help those who are openminded to this evidence, with a desire to seek truth, or to truly wake up to what has been done to them and who is responsible; besides themselves for allowing themselves to be thoroughly deceived as described at John 3:19-21:

19 Now this is the basis for judgment: that the light has come into the world, but men* [Or “people.”] have loved the darkness rather than the light, for their works were wicked. 20 For whoever practices vile things hates the light and does not come to the light, so that his works may not be reproved.* [Or “exposed.”] 21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that his works may be made manifest as having been done in harmony with God.”

a reply to: whereislogic

Your judgment means nothing...

originally posted by: ToneD
Does not the military have direction,
orders, commands ?

On video, Israeli military spokesperson plays dumb,
has a convenient LACK of knowledge,
then makes
a lame excuse of a "possible mistake" -quote
REALLY ?
twitter.com...

Being this inept, I wouldn't let them house sit a potted plant.

. . . vid worthy enough to share

_________________

Its just a bunch of theocratic racists who suckle off the teat of our tax money, expecting more sophisticated countries to fight their wars. Welfare queens who want to flex muscles but only really know how to kill defenseless children and aid workers. USA and UK bet on the wrong horse to hold their interests in the region, but thanks to corruption/extortion are bound to the zionist cause.

originally posted by: oldhead1967

originally posted by: ToneD
Does not the military have direction,
orders, commands ?

On video, Israeli military spokesperson plays dumb,
has a convenient LACK of knowledge,
then makes
a lame excuse of a "possible mistake" -quote
REALLY ?
twitter.com...

Being this inept, I wouldn't let them house sit a potted plant.

. . . vid worthy enough to share

_________________

It’s just a bunch of theocratic racists who suckle off the teat of our tax money, expecting more sophisticated countries to fight their wars. Welfare queens who want to flex muscles but only really know how to kill defenseless children and aid workers. USA and UK bet on the wrong horse to hold their interests in the region, but thanks to corruption/extortion are bound to the zionist cause.

More like the first to take it on the chin by Muslims that want the world ground under the boot of jihad. With no hope of religious freedoms or human rights.